Hard tail, steel / alloy, whats the difference?
Discussion
Been bloody ages since I have riden a steel bike but from what I understand it depends on how much you are looking to spend. At the £1000 mark it is in the mix with Titamium and Aluminium and is a question of preference on how you like a bike to feel.
Top end Reynolds CroMo steel frames are still fairly highly rated but vast majority of bike manufacturers major on hydroformed Aluminium. Possibly fashion led I suppose.
Get out and try the two back to back.
Top end Reynolds CroMo steel frames are still fairly highly rated but vast majority of bike manufacturers major on hydroformed Aluminium. Possibly fashion led I suppose.
Get out and try the two back to back.
neil_bolton said:
Short of it is:
Steel = Flexible, comfortable, easy to repair
Aluminium = Stiff, very light, strong
Titanium = Flexible, 'whippy' feel, very light.
Alu and Ti are very hard to repair, but don't let that put you off.
Carbon is all of the above based on how its designed.
Hope that helps.
currently looking at steel or aluminium frame for my next bike. quality steel mtb frames seem a world away from what they were 10 years ago.Steel = Flexible, comfortable, easy to repair
Aluminium = Stiff, very light, strong
Titanium = Flexible, 'whippy' feel, very light.
Alu and Ti are very hard to repair, but don't let that put you off.
Carbon is all of the above based on how its designed.
Hope that helps.
I would add that from experience, steel is far more responsive than aluminium, especially a well built steel frame. A steel rear triangle allows that certain flex that can greatly increase traction. i guess this is why modern aluminium road bikes have started using carbon triangles to get the same effect using a lighter material.
welds on steel bikes tend to be far better too, not being a proficient welder i can only assume that it is easy to weld better on steel than aluminium?
Welding Ali is a real craft whereas - in comparison - welding steel is easier than a prostitute in Portsmouth when the Ark Royal is in town.
In terms of 'responsiveness' well that's subjective and depends on what the individual means by responsive.
Ali frames are stiffer and don't flex. This means more of your input goes into going forward. Fine when the ground is smooth but in the rough stuff it means the back wheel gets bounced around.
Steel frames flex and spring. Although this means less of your energy goes into going forward it does keep the rear wheel tracking better over the rough stuff.
Now neither is going to be as good - ie in absorbing shocks - as a full susser but there's certainly a difference between the two. And different riding styles suit different materials.
The reason why Ali frames are so stiff is because aluminium fatigues as you bend it. IN COMPARISON, steel doesn't - it will eventually. The implications of this? Well if you built a 'springy' steel like frame out of aluminium then the tubes would snap relatively quickly.
Dialled Bikes 'Alpine' and 'Prince Albert' are two cracking examples of really good modern steel frames. As are the Genisis range of bikes, they even have 853 and 520 versions of their frames. I think Saracen have a 653 Zen.
As for Ali? Mythic Scirocco is a cheaper and blatent copy of the Cove Stiffee, Santa Cruz Chameleon are excellent examples of modern ali frames. More Race orientated well - hate to say it - Spesh S-Works M5 has to be the top of the list for the Clubman racer. Although the Commencal Flame is worth a looky.
In terms of 'responsiveness' well that's subjective and depends on what the individual means by responsive.
Ali frames are stiffer and don't flex. This means more of your input goes into going forward. Fine when the ground is smooth but in the rough stuff it means the back wheel gets bounced around.
Steel frames flex and spring. Although this means less of your energy goes into going forward it does keep the rear wheel tracking better over the rough stuff.
Now neither is going to be as good - ie in absorbing shocks - as a full susser but there's certainly a difference between the two. And different riding styles suit different materials.
The reason why Ali frames are so stiff is because aluminium fatigues as you bend it. IN COMPARISON, steel doesn't - it will eventually. The implications of this? Well if you built a 'springy' steel like frame out of aluminium then the tubes would snap relatively quickly.
Dialled Bikes 'Alpine' and 'Prince Albert' are two cracking examples of really good modern steel frames. As are the Genisis range of bikes, they even have 853 and 520 versions of their frames. I think Saracen have a 653 Zen.
As for Ali? Mythic Scirocco is a cheaper and blatent copy of the Cove Stiffee, Santa Cruz Chameleon are excellent examples of modern ali frames. More Race orientated well - hate to say it - Spesh S-Works M5 has to be the top of the list for the Clubman racer. Although the Commencal Flame is worth a looky.
OP, what type of bike is it?
If it's a dirt/trails/DH 'tailer, then steel rules IMO! In a high-stressed environment such as dirt riding, when fatigued aluminium will tend to 'let go'. Whereas a steel frame will crack or bend way before any welds/tubes separate leading to a whole world of pain. Being a little less stiff than aluminium means it tends to absorb abuse a hell of a lot beter in the first place.
For any other bike though, weight and stiffness are king so aluminium every time
If it's a dirt/trails/DH 'tailer, then steel rules IMO! In a high-stressed environment such as dirt riding, when fatigued aluminium will tend to 'let go'. Whereas a steel frame will crack or bend way before any welds/tubes separate leading to a whole world of pain. Being a little less stiff than aluminium means it tends to absorb abuse a hell of a lot beter in the first place.
For any other bike though, weight and stiffness are king so aluminium every time
Richair said:
OP, what type of bike is it?
If it's a dirt/trails/DH 'tailer, then steel rules IMO! In a high-stressed environment such as dirt riding, when fatigued aluminium will tend to 'let go'. Whereas a steel frame will crack or bend way before any welds/tubes separate leading to a whole world of pain. Being a little less stiff than aluminium means it tends to absorb abuse a hell of a lot beter in the first place.
For any other bike though, weight and stiffness are king so aluminium every time
Cross Country mate, a real mix of trails but with no real down hill bumps..If it's a dirt/trails/DH 'tailer, then steel rules IMO! In a high-stressed environment such as dirt riding, when fatigued aluminium will tend to 'let go'. Whereas a steel frame will crack or bend way before any welds/tubes separate leading to a whole world of pain. Being a little less stiff than aluminium means it tends to absorb abuse a hell of a lot beter in the first place.
For any other bike though, weight and stiffness are king so aluminium every time
Richair said:
OP, what type of bike is it?
If it's a dirt/trails/DH 'tailer, then steel rules IMO! In a high-stressed environment such as dirt riding, when fatigued aluminium will tend to 'let go'. Whereas a steel frame will crack or bend way before any welds/tubes separate leading to a whole world of pain. Being a little less stiff than aluminium means it tends to absorb abuse a hell of a lot beter in the first place.
For any other bike though, weight and stiffness are king so aluminium every time
I dont think any DH rigs are made of steel, I cant imagine how heavy the likes of the Intense M6 would be if it where made of steel lol. If it's a dirt/trails/DH 'tailer, then steel rules IMO! In a high-stressed environment such as dirt riding, when fatigued aluminium will tend to 'let go'. Whereas a steel frame will crack or bend way before any welds/tubes separate leading to a whole world of pain. Being a little less stiff than aluminium means it tends to absorb abuse a hell of a lot beter in the first place.
For any other bike though, weight and stiffness are king so aluminium every time
Also aesthetics and exclusivity come into it a bit too! You'll often find the smaller and especially UK outfits tend to do some "niche" steel frames...Curtis for example will do it in the colour of your choice and even offer a lifetime repair/replace guarantee. Steel frames tend to be made of much simpler tube profiles with additional supports/gussets welded in rather than hydroformed profiling (bloody hard to do in steel!) so tend to be much thinner and more spindly, looking like MTBs from 20 years ago. Not to everyone's tastes, but at the moment I have a real thing for the Charge Duster Alfine, just so clean and simple, looks like a singlespeed but you can cheat!
You don't get steel suspension frames fir a good reason. For the suspension to work well you need your chassis to be as stiff as possible - just like a sports car. As for rigid frames, most of the above is true.
For speed and efficiency. Ali or carbon.
But steel can give a very supple ride for a great long distance bike - see dialled PA, genesis altitude or charge duster.
My current ride is a dialled alpine.
For speed and efficiency. Ali or carbon.
But steel can give a very supple ride for a great long distance bike - see dialled PA, genesis altitude or charge duster.
My current ride is a dialled alpine.
I did have a Scott scale ali framed bike and it was a fast race bike, however it was a harsh ride - not the sort of the I'd enjoy after 3 hrs.
Now have a Cove Handjob (steel) and love it , maybe not AS fast but so much comfier , I could ride it all day anywhere and not feel battered.
So its still horses for courses , if you're after a "short travel race machine" maybe Alu , but I'd say if your after an "all day 5" travel all mountain bike" then plump for steel.
Obviously there are steel bikes and there are drain pipe bikes, thumbs up for my handjob , also the Genesis Altitude 853 is a stunner or the Charge etc.
Now have a Cove Handjob (steel) and love it , maybe not AS fast but so much comfier , I could ride it all day anywhere and not feel battered.
So its still horses for courses , if you're after a "short travel race machine" maybe Alu , but I'd say if your after an "all day 5" travel all mountain bike" then plump for steel.
Obviously there are steel bikes and there are drain pipe bikes, thumbs up for my handjob , also the Genesis Altitude 853 is a stunner or the Charge etc.
Following on from earlier comments.
I'm 17 stone and do not have the most svelt of riding styles, I used to ride a Marin Team issue (Columbus Max OR or something) steel frame. Flex, yes, plenty. Comfortable but a bit slack when really pushing on but given the quality of the frame material there was a definately a ti type zing to it's ride which I loved. Following that I had Cannondale's including killer v's. Brutallty rigid and fantastic for shorter blasts out on the hills, terrific power transfer etc but tiring over a couple of hours and on rutted hard packed trail you got shaken, a lot. Suited racing more than anything else.
My solution, custom steel. Mix of Reynolds and Columbus, rigid frame with just the right level of flex and kick when throwing it around. Not as expensive as you'd think, if you don't get carried away on paint options.
The OH rides a hydroformed Rockhopper frame, it handles very well indeed but I definately miss the flex, kick and comfort of my steel frame.
I'm 17 stone and do not have the most svelt of riding styles, I used to ride a Marin Team issue (Columbus Max OR or something) steel frame. Flex, yes, plenty. Comfortable but a bit slack when really pushing on but given the quality of the frame material there was a definately a ti type zing to it's ride which I loved. Following that I had Cannondale's including killer v's. Brutallty rigid and fantastic for shorter blasts out on the hills, terrific power transfer etc but tiring over a couple of hours and on rutted hard packed trail you got shaken, a lot. Suited racing more than anything else.
My solution, custom steel. Mix of Reynolds and Columbus, rigid frame with just the right level of flex and kick when throwing it around. Not as expensive as you'd think, if you don't get carried away on paint options.
The OH rides a hydroformed Rockhopper frame, it handles very well indeed but I definately miss the flex, kick and comfort of my steel frame.
vz-r_dave said:
Richair said:
OP, what type of bike is it?
If it's a dirt/trails/DH 'tailer, then steel rules IMO! In a high-stressed environment such as dirt riding, when fatigued aluminium will tend to 'let go'. Whereas a steel frame will crack or bend way before any welds/tubes separate leading to a whole world of pain. Being a little less stiff than aluminium means it tends to absorb abuse a hell of a lot beter in the first place.
For any other bike though, weight and stiffness are king so aluminium every time
I dont think any DH rigs are made of steel, I cant imagine how heavy the likes of the Intense M6 would be if it where made of steel lol. If it's a dirt/trails/DH 'tailer, then steel rules IMO! In a high-stressed environment such as dirt riding, when fatigued aluminium will tend to 'let go'. Whereas a steel frame will crack or bend way before any welds/tubes separate leading to a whole world of pain. Being a little less stiff than aluminium means it tends to absorb abuse a hell of a lot beter in the first place.
For any other bike though, weight and stiffness are king so aluminium every time
Grant76 said:
Is there any big advantage one way or the other?
Not really, only boutique frames are even worth repairing (caveat, planning a trip across the Himalayas then steel will be easier to get fixed) so the material is irrelevant in that respect.Personally I like a bare ally frame, easier to keep looking good. Many people say there is a difference in feel between the two materials, this is not strictly true, though steel framed bikes often have a bit more 'zing' and alloy framed bikes can feel a bit more clinical, it has pretty much bugger all to do with the frame material itself, much more to do with spec choices, geometry and the intended market for the product.
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