Modern frailities
Discussion
Over the last few years, myself and a band of friends have been enjoying mountain biking, as our skills and love of the sport has grown we have worn out/ traded in our old clunkers for some very good bikes.
About 70% of the group have had serious problems with these new and expensive bikes, from a couple of new frames to new mechs and shifters, cassets, cranks....
So, what is going wrong?
Has the demand for ever lighter components led to frailities?
Are we riding harder than we used to?
Are we just fat middle aged blokes that are too heavy for the bikes?
About 70% of the group have had serious problems with these new and expensive bikes, from a couple of new frames to new mechs and shifters, cassets, cranks....
So, what is going wrong?
Has the demand for ever lighter components led to frailities?
Are we riding harder than we used to?
Are we just fat middle aged blokes that are too heavy for the bikes?
Impossible to say without a better idea of budgets and bikes, and styles of riding. I've bent and broken plenty of things but I just take it for granted.
What really cheeses me off are things that are just badly made. Anything by Topeak for example (never owned anything of theirs that hasn't broken, even without abuse).
What really cheeses me off are things that are just badly made. Anything by Topeak for example (never owned anything of theirs that hasn't broken, even without abuse).
XTR kit - on my 3rd rear mech, new front mech on order along with new shifters.
Carbon Yeti frame - just caved in above the front mech and yeti wont do anything to replace, £4.5k frame!
Gary Fisher frame - welds failed.
XT rear mech, cassette and crank
Fizik Gobi saddle
So far the reliable stuff has been SRAM (though I have toasted a SRAM casette), Trek (mud clearence is rubbish) and Lapieere has been faultless.
Carbon Yeti frame - just caved in above the front mech and yeti wont do anything to replace, £4.5k frame!
Gary Fisher frame - welds failed.
XT rear mech, cassette and crank
Fizik Gobi saddle
So far the reliable stuff has been SRAM (though I have toasted a SRAM casette), Trek (mud clearence is rubbish) and Lapieere has been faultless.
XTR kit is - first and foremost - a light weight XC race kit designed with to perform that function. This means meticulous maintenance. You wouldn't buy an F1 car and expect to use it for the daily school run.
That aside. Bike components and frames are continually being pushed to their absolute limits. We benefit from this evolution with lighter bikes, better suspension and more gears. The downside of this is that sometimes things don't work as robustly as before.
There are plenty of options for robust frames but they are heavy. Shimano have the XT range that is about 50 times more durable that XTR but heavier. Further on from that they have the STX and Saint ranges that are burlier.
Sram is the same - the XO mech isv ery light but prone to smashing even if it just sees a twig and all their jockey wheels appear to be made from jelly.
I suppose the easiest way to look at it is this. If you're going to spend £1000 on a frame and assemble a 'top line' of components to cover it in then you need to pick something fit for what you're actually going to do. If you want an ultra light weight XC whippet that'll make a World Champ jealous then fine, just don't expect to be able to steam through a rock garden in the Alps at full chat. Also, if you're spending big money then the care and attention to detail you need to put into the building and servicing also needs to be to notch - just like an F1 car.
It is frustrating though - even more so when you're using the 'right tool for the job'. I've had my run of bad luck with things on my bikes.
That aside. Bike components and frames are continually being pushed to their absolute limits. We benefit from this evolution with lighter bikes, better suspension and more gears. The downside of this is that sometimes things don't work as robustly as before.
There are plenty of options for robust frames but they are heavy. Shimano have the XT range that is about 50 times more durable that XTR but heavier. Further on from that they have the STX and Saint ranges that are burlier.
Sram is the same - the XO mech isv ery light but prone to smashing even if it just sees a twig and all their jockey wheels appear to be made from jelly.
I suppose the easiest way to look at it is this. If you're going to spend £1000 on a frame and assemble a 'top line' of components to cover it in then you need to pick something fit for what you're actually going to do. If you want an ultra light weight XC whippet that'll make a World Champ jealous then fine, just don't expect to be able to steam through a rock garden in the Alps at full chat. Also, if you're spending big money then the care and attention to detail you need to put into the building and servicing also needs to be to notch - just like an F1 car.
It is frustrating though - even more so when you're using the 'right tool for the job'. I've had my run of bad luck with things on my bikes.
The demands of the consumer and the bike mags to get bikes ever lighter with proud boasts of sub 25lb bikes is going to give durability problems. To be honest, we (the group of friends) have been treated very well by the companies concerned.
Shimano has been dissapointing, the first rear mech just died on a hill for no reason and so far shimano have given the same response that they will not do anything.
The yeti is the shocker, I used to have an ASR and it was one hell of a bike. The new CF bike was delivered over 6 months late (money up front) and lasted 3 months, the fault has been seen on other frames and has been replaced by Yeti, but they said no. The owner of the bike shop where my friend purchased the yeti was so astounded by the response from yeti that he is replacing the frame out of his own pocket.
The problem with the Gary Fisher was actually spotted by the GF rep while the bike was in for a service. He instantly ordered another frame which was a couple of models better and current design, it took some time but was worth it.
The fizik saddle was replaced by fizik with no questions asked.
I do take your point over the use of XTR, my servicing has not been all it should be, especially with race bred kit. Probably my fault with the rear mechs. However the front mech and shifter is just that it has worn out with less than a year of use.
Shimano has been dissapointing, the first rear mech just died on a hill for no reason and so far shimano have given the same response that they will not do anything.
The yeti is the shocker, I used to have an ASR and it was one hell of a bike. The new CF bike was delivered over 6 months late (money up front) and lasted 3 months, the fault has been seen on other frames and has been replaced by Yeti, but they said no. The owner of the bike shop where my friend purchased the yeti was so astounded by the response from yeti that he is replacing the frame out of his own pocket.
The problem with the Gary Fisher was actually spotted by the GF rep while the bike was in for a service. He instantly ordered another frame which was a couple of models better and current design, it took some time but was worth it.
The fizik saddle was replaced by fizik with no questions asked.
I do take your point over the use of XTR, my servicing has not been all it should be, especially with race bred kit. Probably my fault with the rear mechs. However the front mech and shifter is just that it has worn out with less than a year of use.
I think people are riding harder; disc brakes, suspension, flickable handling and the riding position allows the average rider to ride harder. Combine this with people speccing the lightest/most expensive (not always most suitable) components and you'll have breakages....which is great as it keeps the industry going.
I have something to add to this. From Topeak, I've had a multitool, a rear mudguard, and 2 saddlebags. All of them have broken.
The multitool kept getting loose, no matter how often I tightened the tool hinges.
The rear mudguard had a yellow knob to set tightness on the seatpost. That snapped. (I emailed Topeak for a replacement 'knob', they never replied)
The first saddlebag, the zip failed.
The second saddlebag, the clip onto the saddle snapped, so I replaced it with the old clip. Then the zip snapped off in my hand. I took it to Evans who said it was a warranty issue. I told them I didn't care what happened to it, I simply wanted to exchange it for something that worked.
Topeak have replied that I may have overloaded the bag. The bike shop (Evans) are agreeing with that assessment. How a zipper (the bit you hold while 'zipping') can be snapped in two by an 'overloaded' bag is quite beyond me.
For the money, £15-£20, I'm not even going to bother. I am however going to complain to Evans, who I've probably spent around £300-£400 with on various bits over the last couple of years. When I returned it last night, the bloke behind the counter said I was the first to ever return one. He looked a bit dumbfounded when his colleague passed by and mentioned that he'd had two of them where the clips had broken, and that I should buy Cannondale in future.
Would you accept a replacement Topeak bag, knowing that eventually it would break again, possibly losing your house keys or similar?
The multitool kept getting loose, no matter how often I tightened the tool hinges.
The rear mudguard had a yellow knob to set tightness on the seatpost. That snapped. (I emailed Topeak for a replacement 'knob', they never replied)
The first saddlebag, the zip failed.
The second saddlebag, the clip onto the saddle snapped, so I replaced it with the old clip. Then the zip snapped off in my hand. I took it to Evans who said it was a warranty issue. I told them I didn't care what happened to it, I simply wanted to exchange it for something that worked.
Topeak have replied that I may have overloaded the bag. The bike shop (Evans) are agreeing with that assessment. How a zipper (the bit you hold while 'zipping') can be snapped in two by an 'overloaded' bag is quite beyond me.
For the money, £15-£20, I'm not even going to bother. I am however going to complain to Evans, who I've probably spent around £300-£400 with on various bits over the last couple of years. When I returned it last night, the bloke behind the counter said I was the first to ever return one. He looked a bit dumbfounded when his colleague passed by and mentioned that he'd had two of them where the clips had broken, and that I should buy Cannondale in future.
Would you accept a replacement Topeak bag, knowing that eventually it would break again, possibly losing your house keys or similar?
I had a Topeak shock pump, bought deliberately for a cunning design feature I needed in order to inflate my old shock. Since changed shocks so that feature is no longer relevant. Which is lucky, because the hose exploded one day whilst pumping up the new shock. Doesn't fill me with confidence regarding the quality of their products.
As for saddle bags, they're the Devil's own work. You just know that one day you're going to rip it off without noticing, thus losing your car keys, phone etc. Camelbak all the way for carrying stuff with you.
As for saddle bags, they're the Devil's own work. You just know that one day you're going to rip it off without noticing, thus losing your car keys, phone etc. Camelbak all the way for carrying stuff with you.
I suspect that the market life of products getting shorter and shorter has something to do with it. The older tech had longer to get all the teething problems ironed out. I have a 10 year old O/E square taper BB which has been on my winter bike which is totally abused. In that time I've had numerous ISIS and other type BBs.
I also think the use of the hose and pressure washer kills things quicker.
I also think the use of the hose and pressure washer kills things quicker.
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