New 2009 Shimano Saint groupset revealed...
Discussion
http://www.commencalownersclub.com/index.php/topic...
I'm sure someones been earwigging my conversations on having gold stuff on the bike...
Things I like:
4 pot calipers
Rear Mech
Gold external BB
Things not so hot on:
Chainset graphics...
Still, lovely looking bits of kit...
I'm sure someones been earwigging my conversations on having gold stuff on the bike...
Things I like:
4 pot calipers
Rear Mech
Gold external BB
Things not so hot on:
Chainset graphics...
Still, lovely looking bits of kit...
4 pot caliper looks nice, apart from it being bolted, major booboo.
Rest is very 'meh'. Cranks look awful, why on earth they didnt follow the XTR/SLX polished face approach I have no idea. They will look awful soon enough.
The trend seems to be moving away from big, bulky, heavy duty 'freeride' components. The only thing I could consider is the crankset in 83mm BB offering, because its the probably the most proven out of all the alternatives.
Come on shimano, we want 83mm XT & XTR
Rest is very 'meh'. Cranks look awful, why on earth they didnt follow the XTR/SLX polished face approach I have no idea. They will look awful soon enough.
The trend seems to be moving away from big, bulky, heavy duty 'freeride' components. The only thing I could consider is the crankset in 83mm BB offering, because its the probably the most proven out of all the alternatives.
Come on shimano, we want 83mm XT & XTR
Edited by -C- on Friday 18th April 13:55
Tim.s said:
Rico said:
Bleh... sticking with my XTR 
Completely different ballpark dude 
Unless you're hucking, crash a lot or just very ragged on a bike, I think XTR are fine and look sooo much better and more bling. Lighter too.
So thats cranks...
Mechs - granted for DH and 4X etc, you really want a road cassette and short cage, which you can't get in XTR. So Saint would be best here. Or do what I and my DH/4X mates do and run road mechs. Smaller and if you go for 105 they're mucho strong.
Shifters - I had XT on all my bikes, tried XTR and its just a world apart. HAD to change over. They just are sooo amazing. Doubt new saint will be as good.
Brakes - XTR callipers and XT servowave levers for me at present. Need to try the 4pots to see how they are.
Oh dear looks like you have fully fallen for the Shimano advertising trap!!
You won't see XTR on any factory built downhill and freeride bikes because its just not strong enough. XTR is (in my opinion of course) overpriced and aimed at people with more money than talent.
The Athertons like all pros ride with whatever they are told to ride with, if the current sponsor is Shimano then they have to ride with Shimano.
Sorry if this sounds harsh but i just spent the day at my favourate freeride spot with a bunch of talentless fools on 2 grand bikes getting in my way.
You won't see XTR on any factory built downhill and freeride bikes because its just not strong enough. XTR is (in my opinion of course) overpriced and aimed at people with more money than talent.
The Athertons like all pros ride with whatever they are told to ride with, if the current sponsor is Shimano then they have to ride with Shimano.
Sorry if this sounds harsh but i just spent the day at my favourate freeride spot with a bunch of talentless fools on 2 grand bikes getting in my way.
Nah, I use what works, what looks good and what I trust. I've owned Saints in the past and they're ace. Just saying XTR is more than up to any normal riding.
My point about the Athertons was if they were snapping cranks left right and centre, they'd be using Saints. It's far more important to them and Shimano that they use stuff that doesn't break mid run.
Can't be assed with a long discussion over it. I'm happy sticking with XT/XTR gear
My point about the Athertons was if they were snapping cranks left right and centre, they'd be using Saints. It's far more important to them and Shimano that they use stuff that doesn't break mid run.
Can't be assed with a long discussion over it. I'm happy sticking with XT/XTR gear
Tim, I think you are completely wrong.
Yes, maybe riders have to ride what they are told, however XTR stuff IS very strong.
For example, I was riding one of our favourite DH runs in Triscombe, where the terrain is nothing but difficult and hard on the bike.
I rode my Meta - with full XTR on.
It was hucked off a large road gap, down plenty of dodgy rooty drops, and crashed on occasion.
It all ran faultlessly, and was very VERY stiff and consistant in its operation.
I'm quite happy to say that its survived several hefty landings, and didn't flinch.
I'd happily swap XTR with Saint where needed - for example, I'd run the Saint rear mech, BB and calipers - funnily enough, what I'm running now on my DH bike. However, I'd have absolutely no issues running XTR in place of it - and the only reason I wouldn't is that they don't do a single chainring XTR chainset (IIRC) and I just wanted to run Saint.
I'd love to run XTR and would have no problems.
I think you need to actually run it and use it yourself to see - I do, and I'm frequently surprised at the hammering they take - including the XTR wheelset I had which weighed nothing yet still took a day with Rico throwing them down the Triscombe DH.
I think it may well be YOU who's been duped by the whole "Its XTR, so it must be for Pros only, and nobody would EVER use it themselves for DH" line
Yes, maybe riders have to ride what they are told, however XTR stuff IS very strong.
For example, I was riding one of our favourite DH runs in Triscombe, where the terrain is nothing but difficult and hard on the bike.
I rode my Meta - with full XTR on.
It was hucked off a large road gap, down plenty of dodgy rooty drops, and crashed on occasion.
It all ran faultlessly, and was very VERY stiff and consistant in its operation.
I'm quite happy to say that its survived several hefty landings, and didn't flinch.
I'd happily swap XTR with Saint where needed - for example, I'd run the Saint rear mech, BB and calipers - funnily enough, what I'm running now on my DH bike. However, I'd have absolutely no issues running XTR in place of it - and the only reason I wouldn't is that they don't do a single chainring XTR chainset (IIRC) and I just wanted to run Saint.
I'd love to run XTR and would have no problems.
I think you need to actually run it and use it yourself to see - I do, and I'm frequently surprised at the hammering they take - including the XTR wheelset I had which weighed nothing yet still took a day with Rico throwing them down the Triscombe DH.
I think it may well be YOU who's been duped by the whole "Its XTR, so it must be for Pros only, and nobody would EVER use it themselves for DH" line
neil_bolton said:
the only reason I wouldn't is that they don't do a single chainring XTR chainset (IIRC) and I just wanted to run Saint.
Best trick in the book... buy XTR triple, sell chainrings on ebay for £££££££ and buy a Blackspire/E13/etc single chainring. Not much more than buying Saint.
Tim.s said:
Sorry guys i'm bored now.
Its a shame that mountain biking has come to this, its strangling the spirit.
So while you guys talk about your shiney new bikes i'll be out riding mine.
Happy trails.
Righto chief. Clear case of someone who didn't like being shouted down.Its a shame that mountain biking has come to this, its strangling the spirit.
So while you guys talk about your shiney new bikes i'll be out riding mine.
Happy trails.
I'm right behind you when you see the 'all the gear, no idea' crew, however, I'm sure it does smart a bit when you do ACTUALLY get riders with nice kit riding.
Now, I'll just pop to work, and earn the money that allows me to buy those nice shiney XTR bits (or Saint) so that I can enjoy them on the weekend...
Or am I not allowed to do that?
Oops, hang on, here's a vid of me abusing some weak old XTR kit yesterday...
Hitting that gap (and not getting it right - I'm the second guy)
Crashing the Meta and all that weak old XTR
Going slighty off piste here (sorry OP) this is a discussion we often have on the trail, it must be nice to have that gear but do you really need it?
Many times ive been held up by someone on a bike far more expensive than my own, most people's talent nowhere near matches what their bikes are capable of.
My enjoyment of mountain biking goes beyond the equiptment, i overheard a conversation in Mud Dock in Bristol last year, basically the customer didn't like the bike he was being shown because in his own words it 'wasn't expensive enough'
Have a look at a film called 'Klunkers' the supposed birth of mountain biking, those guys rode downhill much faster than you do on bikes they had made themselves from parts found in charity shops, no suspension, no gears, no fancy clothing and when the bikes broke they looked at ways of improving them. Seeing Gary Fisher take air on a bike which he had built himself whilst drunk is inspirational! I like to think the same way, if i break something or i feel something is holding me back i replace it with something a little stronger or higher spec, i'd never break a £100 crankset so i don't think i need a £200 one. I'd rather save the difference and spend it on a weekend riding. My bike is made up of components which work well for me and don't outstrip my talent whilst being of good enough quality to let me enjoy the sport.
Another film to look out for is 'Joe kid on a stingray' the origins of BMX, those kids got their dads to make frames out of all sorts of things, turning up with a bike that looked like frankenstiens monster was more important than not turning up at all.
I'm sure neither of us is right or wrong it just seems we have different opinions of what mountain biking is all about.
Many times ive been held up by someone on a bike far more expensive than my own, most people's talent nowhere near matches what their bikes are capable of.
My enjoyment of mountain biking goes beyond the equiptment, i overheard a conversation in Mud Dock in Bristol last year, basically the customer didn't like the bike he was being shown because in his own words it 'wasn't expensive enough'
Have a look at a film called 'Klunkers' the supposed birth of mountain biking, those guys rode downhill much faster than you do on bikes they had made themselves from parts found in charity shops, no suspension, no gears, no fancy clothing and when the bikes broke they looked at ways of improving them. Seeing Gary Fisher take air on a bike which he had built himself whilst drunk is inspirational! I like to think the same way, if i break something or i feel something is holding me back i replace it with something a little stronger or higher spec, i'd never break a £100 crankset so i don't think i need a £200 one. I'd rather save the difference and spend it on a weekend riding. My bike is made up of components which work well for me and don't outstrip my talent whilst being of good enough quality to let me enjoy the sport.
Another film to look out for is 'Joe kid on a stingray' the origins of BMX, those kids got their dads to make frames out of all sorts of things, turning up with a bike that looked like frankenstiens monster was more important than not turning up at all.
I'm sure neither of us is right or wrong it just seems we have different opinions of what mountain biking is all about.
Oh and here's me NOT stacking at the weekend!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Dsn9zWiBHc
And yes it was also raining and yes the roots were also slippery!
Edited to sound less sarcastic!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Dsn9zWiBHc
And yes it was also raining and yes the roots were also slippery!
Edited to sound less sarcastic!
Edited by Tim.s on Monday 21st April 09:46
Tim.s said:
As it seems you guys do want a bun fight, here's me NOT stacking at the weekend!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Dsn9zWiBHc
And yes it was also raining and yes the roots were also slippery!
Lovely as that was, I wasn't showing that to prove I can, or cannot ride - merely that I was hammering the buggery out of my supposedly weak XTR kit.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Dsn9zWiBHc
And yes it was also raining and yes the roots were also slippery!
I'm sure I could point out plenty of vids where I've not stacked
To end this argument: XTR is more than capable of taking the big hits. For example, I am going to be riding the Meta as it is set up now, with all the XTR kit, in one of the most testing and gruelling races in the world - the Megavalanche.
I have no qualms about using the XTR kit there.
Tim.s said:
I'm sure neither of us is right or wrong it just seems we have different opinions of what mountain biking is all about.
I don't think we do at all. Neil and I are saying that XTR is cool and fine for all riding, merely saying that you DO NOT have to buy a 'freeride' crank to enjoy freeriding and can use anything you want. XTR is a 'race' crank and thus lighter and stiffer than a Saint. I've also claimed that I use XT on Downhill bikes and it works fine. Yet, from that you say
Tim.s said:
Oh dear looks like you have fully fallen for the Shimano advertising trap!!
Thus telling me that because I use a non-freeride crank that It's wrong for me to use it for freeride?If anything, we're saying "DON'T" buy a specific bit of kit for each bit of riding and how Shimano make products that just work and can be abused for all different types of riding.
Fun discussion though. Keyboard warriors unite!
Tim.s said:
Going slighty off piste here (sorry OP) this is a discussion we often have on the trail, it must be nice to have that gear but do you really need it?
Many times ive been held up by someone on a bike far more expensive than my own, most people's talent nowhere near matches what their bikes are capable of.
My enjoyment of mountain biking goes beyond the equiptment, i overheard a conversation in Mud Dock in Bristol last year, basically the customer didn't like the bike he was being shown because in his own words it 'wasn't expensive enough'
Have a look at a film called 'Klunkers' the supposed birth of mountain biking, those guys rode downhill much faster than you do on bikes they had made themselves from parts found in charity shops, no suspension, no gears, no fancy clothing and when the bikes broke they looked at ways of improving them. Seeing Gary Fisher take air on a bike which he had built himself whilst drunk is inspirational! I like to think the same way, if i break something or i feel something is holding me back i replace it with something a little stronger or higher spec, i'd never break a £100 crankset so i don't think i need a £200 one. I'd rather save the difference and spend it on a weekend riding. My bike is made up of components which work well for me and don't outstrip my talent whilst being of good enough quality to let me enjoy the sport.
Another film to look out for is 'Joe kid on a stingray' the origins of BMX, those kids got their dads to make frames out of all sorts of things, turning up with a bike that looked like frankenstiens monster was more important than not turning up at all.
I'm sure neither of us is right or wrong it just seems we have different opinions of what mountain biking is all about.
Listen mate. Stop trying to insinuate that we're monkies for wanting to buy the nicest kit we can afford.Many times ive been held up by someone on a bike far more expensive than my own, most people's talent nowhere near matches what their bikes are capable of.
My enjoyment of mountain biking goes beyond the equiptment, i overheard a conversation in Mud Dock in Bristol last year, basically the customer didn't like the bike he was being shown because in his own words it 'wasn't expensive enough'
Have a look at a film called 'Klunkers' the supposed birth of mountain biking, those guys rode downhill much faster than you do on bikes they had made themselves from parts found in charity shops, no suspension, no gears, no fancy clothing and when the bikes broke they looked at ways of improving them. Seeing Gary Fisher take air on a bike which he had built himself whilst drunk is inspirational! I like to think the same way, if i break something or i feel something is holding me back i replace it with something a little stronger or higher spec, i'd never break a £100 crankset so i don't think i need a £200 one. I'd rather save the difference and spend it on a weekend riding. My bike is made up of components which work well for me and don't outstrip my talent whilst being of good enough quality to let me enjoy the sport.
Another film to look out for is 'Joe kid on a stingray' the origins of BMX, those kids got their dads to make frames out of all sorts of things, turning up with a bike that looked like frankenstiens monster was more important than not turning up at all.
I'm sure neither of us is right or wrong it just seems we have different opinions of what mountain biking is all about.
If we want to run XTR cos its nice, then we will. We work hard to pay for it, and get great satisfaction in having it; in very much the same way people who buy nice sports cars etc.
Now I run XTR becuase I KNOW how good it is. I *could* run the SRAM X9/X0 stuff, but I don't becuase I've snapped a few bits. I've NEVER snapped an XTR component (except when smashing an XTR mech into a rock which would have destroyed any mech).
Additionally, I've worked in bike shops for years, and KNOW what works and what doesn't. Saint stuff is burly, no doubt, and I run it becuase I want peace of mind on the DH bike. However, I'm considering swapping it over to XTR depending on what the 09 stuff is like.
However for you to get all high and mighty about us running XTR is akin to a green ecowarrior getting all arsey over sports cars - why should you have one? I drive a 2CV so you shouldn't have a 911.
Its the same argument you have - you may not ride the XTR kit, and so why should anyone else? You're essentially saying: If you're in front of me, holding me up and riding nice kit, you shouldn't be there.
I'm sure you' tell some bloke on a £300 bike to get out of the way too? Or would you just hold back and go 'its alright mate, you've only got a cheap bike, so that's alright then'.
You may, or may not have chosen to get whatever kit based on a series of reasons. I suspect the main one would be that you couldn't justify spending that much money on XTR. You may have got an XT mech instead of an XTR - fair point - I always think that too. But I've worked bloody hard to finally, after all these years, ride the trick bike that I've wanted.
So to stand there and start throwing out the wanky comment "Do you really need it?" is crap - no we don't - but we've chosen it for a reason, and who are you to pass comment.
As for you, I'd concentrate on riding a bit more - you need to let go of those brakes a bit judging by your video - would you get out of MY way if I was stuck behind you on a DH - of course - I'd be going faster that you, and it would justify my XTR kit.
Additionally, I enjoy my riding just as much as tinkering with my nice bike - riding the Mega for example - I can't wait, and am looking forward to competing on the scary as feck World Cup DH course in Oz D'Oisans - my ability is immaterial (however I've competed and done quite well in various disciples - even getting a top ten at a Dragon DH so I think that'll speak for my skill).
XTR is light, stiff and strong. It doesnt break, and it expensive. Live with it, captain keyboard warrior.
I don't usually get riled, but your comments are just as bad as the 'all the kit and no idea' lot themselves. Those who b
h about the people with the nice kit are usually the ones jealous that THEY haven't got it.Thing is, I'm the sort of person who likes people to share the stuff I have, and happily lend my bike to anyone to ride and experience. I don't think I'd be lending it to you though - I don't think you'd appreciate it.
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