Off road lights

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Discussion

Black5

Original Poster:

579 posts

230 months

Sunday 23rd September 2007
quotequote all
I am looking for some lights. The problem is how many different types are on the market & there is such a huge price range.

Are LED better than Halogen?

NiCad or NiMh batteries?

Why are Lupine systems iro £600 when you can buy these?: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?Mod...

What should I be looking for?

One more question . . . Bar or helmet mount?

neil_bolton

17,113 posts

271 months

Monday 24th September 2007
quotequote all
Black5 said:
I am looking for some lights. The problem is how many different types are on the market & there is such a huge price range.

Are LED better than Halogen?
Not neccesarily - LED can't have the shape of its beam easily shaped to give a good light. However they are very efficient.

Black5 said:
NiCad or NiMh batteries?
Li-ion please. Simply the hardiest and longest lasting battery I've used so far. If not Li-Ion, then NiMh. NiCad only if you like doubling the weight of your bike.

Black5 said:
Why are Lupine systems iro £600 when you can buy these?: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?Mod...
Because the more expensive lights have much more sophisticated technology inside them, extracting more power, more efficiently and for longer, out of their batteries. As much as anyone tries to protest, cheaper = less quality, less time of R+D, cheaper materials, heavier batteries; your mounts will be made of shite plastics and snap easily, they won't fit very well, they will have stupid design faults like cables that are slightly too short etc, and you generally end up with big old batteries to get the power; more expensive lights have betteries you won't believe!.

Spend money where you can on these - they WILL save your life if you are using them proper (either off road of on road.)

Black5 said:
What should I be looking for?
Light and Motions are VERY good - I had the Solo Logic (still have and will use it as a helmet light) model, and apart from the battery being a bit crap (my fault for not charging it correctly - now sorted), it was a bargain. £150 for good run time, good adjustable beam and lots of options for mounting light AND battery.

RICO and I have both just brought the Light and Motion Ultra Li-Ion lights, and I am VERY impressed so far - I did the 'break-in' first charge and discharge, and the light, on full beam, tool over 7 hours to fully discharge!

I've seen PDV6's new Hopes, and very nice they are indeed. He previously had Light and Motions and was happy with his - he now uses them on his helmet.

Black5 said:
One more question . . . Bar or helmet mount?


Both. It makes a real difference. Its a personal choice, however, if you only have one light where you mount it - personally I'm a bar man - but it is useful to have a light wherever you look...

Edited by neil_bolton on Monday 24th September 09:05

pdV6

16,442 posts

268 months

Monday 24th September 2007
quotequote all
I guess the thing to do is pick a price point and see what's available for your budget.

Halogens usually come in towards the bottom-ish end of the budget range, probably because the technology's been around longer, is simpler and more common. Halogen lamps tend to give quite a "yellow" light and seem to eat batteries relatively quickly.

Powerful LEDs give a nice blue/white light and are pretty efficient, so they can run for a decent length of time from a smaller, lighter battery pack. A guy in the office here has just bought some Lupine LED lights and is very happy with them.

HID lamps have to be tried to be appreciated - they're fantastic. I've recently gone for the Hope Vision HID and it's brilliant (unintentional pun there). Runs for 2.5+ hours from a tiny battery pack.

As for mounting, I reckon helmet is probably best really, but personally I wouldn't dare mount a £200+ lamp on my head 'cos I know I'd smash it in no time. Depending on the sort of riding you do, some light on your noggin is a good idea; I find that on twisty, tree-lined singletrack you simply can't see where the trail's going next with a fixed bar-mounted lamp as it's pointing in the wrong direction as you approach each corner. I use a relatively cheap (~£25) AAA-powered LED light up top that gives enough light to see where the trail's going but is still light enough not to notice and cheap enough to replace when it (inevitably) comes a cropper.

pdV6

16,442 posts

268 months

Monday 24th September 2007
quotequote all
Black5 said:
Why are Lupine systems iro £600 when you can buy these?: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?Mod...
Frankly, you get what you pay for. That Electron system will probably be okay for pootling about but I'll wager they're pretty pathetic in the midst of a pitch black wood in the middle of the night.

The £600 Lupine system you refer to is, I guess, one of the Edison range. They have to be seen to be believed. Really.
Whether they're worth £600 is a moot point but the light they generate is awesome - it's like riding with a car headlight strapped to your bike. They have the same HID bulbs that other manufacturers use, but custom internals ramp up the output to something like 50% more than anyone else gets. Plus the battery technology is pretty slick - I think the top spec system has a 10hr burn time!

Black5

Original Poster:

579 posts

230 months

Monday 24th September 2007
quotequote all
It sounds like whatever I get, they will be far better than my current lights. These are Vistalight halogens rated at 6w & 10w. They are over 15 yrs old too.


istoo

2,365 posts

209 months

Monday 24th September 2007
quotequote all
i have had BLT's for decades now bought lupine edisons SH and oh my word are they BRIGHT. Quality is second to none, really opens up opportunities for riding at night. I prefer a helmet mount as its rather rocky on a lot of my local trails, and yes dazzle everyone and much much brighter than the £100 sets. Surprised myself too, but i couldnt muster £600 for a new set, but a SH set makes for a bargain.

the comments above are pretty impartial and i would say bang on advice there. The crux of which depends on both your budget and type of riding.

Minnsy

414 posts

274 months

Monday 24th September 2007
quotequote all
Have been using Lumicycle gear for a couple of years now - bar mounted, one flood and one spot light - this is for cross country night (falling off) stuff. Well worth a look. www.lumicycle.com

phillvr6

3,785 posts

267 months

Monday 24th September 2007
quotequote all
Might be a bit out of date now, but here you go:

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

istoo

2,365 posts

209 months

Monday 24th September 2007
quotequote all
concur with lumicycles, i looked at a 12/20 setup with them and Nimh for about £120 but the edisons were a bargain at £160...

For the money new, the lumicycles are good.

Black5

Original Poster:

579 posts

230 months

Monday 24th September 2007
quotequote all
LBS has recomended Light and Motion Solo (I think), priced at £110.

Compared to original link, not sure this is good value.

Budget is going to be around £100 max.

pdV6

16,442 posts

268 months

Monday 24th September 2007
quotequote all
For that kind of budget, I'd say you were better off using it all on the L&M Solo rather than getting the £50 Electron set and suffering in the dark.

For around £125 online, you could alternatively go for the L&M Vega which is a 4W Luxeon LED. Whilst not strictly an off-road light, it copes as well as if not better than the Solo and has the advantages of being a single unit (lamp, batteries and charger all in one) and being as simple to charge as a mobile 'phone.

Edited by pdV6 on Monday 24th September 14:27

neil_bolton

17,113 posts

271 months

Monday 24th September 2007
quotequote all
Black5 said:
LBS has recomended Light and Motion Solo (I think), priced at £110.

Compared to original link, not sure this is good value.

Budget is going to be around £100 max.
'tis what I have (and will compliment my new ARC Ultras).

Very good lights, just make sure you look after the battery (as you would with a any NiMH)

neil_bolton

17,113 posts

271 months

Monday 24th September 2007
quotequote all
pdV6 said:
For that kind of budget, I'd say you were better off using it all on the L&M Solo rather than getting the £50 Electron set and suffering in the dark.
Echo that. The CRC ones will more than likely be shit in the long run. Spare parts anyone?

Black5

Original Poster:

579 posts

230 months

Monday 24th September 2007
quotequote all
pdV6 said:
For around £125 online, you could alternatively go for the L&M Vega which is a 4W Luxeon LED. Whilst not strictly an off-road light, it copes as well as if not better than the Solo and has the advantages of being a single unit (lamp, batteries and charger all in one) and being as simple to charge as a mobile 'phone.
Where?

Do you have a link?

pdV6

16,442 posts

268 months

Monday 24th September 2007
quotequote all
Black5 said:
pdV6 said:
For around £125 online, you could alternatively go for the L&M Vega which is a 4W Luxeon LED. Whilst not strictly an off-road light, it copes as well as if not better than the Solo and has the advantages of being a single unit (lamp, batteries and charger all in one) and being as simple to charge as a mobile 'phone.
Where?

Do you have a link?
£135 Wiggle: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ProductDetail.aspx?Cat=cyc...
£130 CRC: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?Mod...
£125 2WO: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Light-Motion-Vega-Ni-Mh-Fron...

istoo

2,365 posts

209 months

Monday 24th September 2007
quotequote all
hard thing at the minute is gauging the volume of light, LEDs are hard to categorise, although great bulb and run times. Lumens seem to be the popular choice, but go compare, and doing it in daylight it really is impossible to tell. see if a kind shop will give you a night demo. the new LED's and HIDs are coming in cheap and the technology is moving very quick... choices!

other option is to scan some of the forums for a SH bargain, try singletrackworld classifiedds, or place a wanted add.

pdV6

16,442 posts

268 months

Monday 24th September 2007
quotequote all
istoo said:
hard thing at the minute is gauging the volume of light, LEDs are hard to categorise, although great bulb and run times. Lumens seem to be the popular choice, but go compare
Indeed, it's really difficult to tell.

From recent rides with different lights:

L&M Vega (LED) - 85 lumens
L&M Solo (Halogen) - 390 lumens
Hope Vision (HID) - 450 lumens

Of those, the Vega and the Solo were probably roughly comparable in real-world performance (i.e. ability to see where you're going on singletrack) despite the disparity of the numbers. To be fair, the Solo probably lights up the trail to either side a lot better, as the Vega has a relatively narrow beam.

The Hope Vision blows them both away by an order of magnitude, despite being rated only slightly higher in lumens.

Black5

Original Poster:

579 posts

230 months

Monday 24th September 2007
quotequote all
pdV6 said:
From recent rides with different lights:

L&M Vega (LED) - 85 lumens
L&M Solo (Halogen) - 390 lumens
Hope Vision (HID) - 450 lumens

Of those, the Vega and the Solo were probably roughly comparable in real-world performance (i.e. ability to see where you're going on singletrack) despite the disparity of the numbers. To be fair, the Solo probably lights up the trail to either side a lot better, as the Vega has a relatively narrow beam.

The Hope Vision blows them both away by an order of magnitude, despite being rated only slightly higher in lumens.
That makes soooooo much sense . . . .

there was me thinking the choice would be easy.

burnt

1,371 posts

256 months

Tuesday 25th September 2007
quotequote all
I have these: http://www.bikeshop.uk.com/ProductDetails/mcs/refe...

Helmet mounted most of the time with a small get you home on the bars. They are excellent, the battery is tiny about 2 small match boxes stuck together and the li-ion battery lasts around 2 hours on the brightest setting and ages (not managed to drain it yet!) on the low beam, enough for a night ride in the winter.

Also...and this is the best bit for me...plug them in to charge and forget about them. I plug them in after a ride and grab them next time I need them knowing that the battery won't be fried!

anniesdad

14,589 posts

245 months

Wednesday 26th September 2007
quotequote all
pdV6 said:
HID lamps have to be tried to be appreciated - they're fantastic. I've recently gone for the Hope Vision HID and it's brilliant (unintentional pun there). Runs for 2.5+ hours from a tiny battery pack.
I've just bought myself one of these bad boys and I totally agree, fantastic little piece of kit.

S