Moving your weight about on a MTB
Discussion
Can anyone give me advice.
I've been riding my MTB (Speccy Rockhopper) a decent amount over the last 3 years, but I'm a total girl when it comes to blasting down some single track. The type of single track thats littered with tree roots and rutted like hell from the rain.
My mates litterally leave me for dead down hill. One has a Rockhopper too and the other a Giant Anthem full susser. They all suggest I hang more over the rear wheel and just go for it. But someting deep in my mind stops me from doing this and makes me sit on the brakes all the way down.
I'm also the same around corners having had a couple of offs where the front wheel has slipped underneath me.
The MTB magazines talk about shifting there weight around on the bike etc, but I'm not really sure on this technique. Can anyone give me some pointers.
Also one last thing.
I want to get a mid travel full susser in the spring. I've got my eyes on a Kona 'The King'. Kona seem very quiet in the XC world, are they any good. I will try others from Giant and Specialized, but I liked the kit spec. on the Kona.
Thanks in advance.
Kev
I've been riding my MTB (Speccy Rockhopper) a decent amount over the last 3 years, but I'm a total girl when it comes to blasting down some single track. The type of single track thats littered with tree roots and rutted like hell from the rain.
My mates litterally leave me for dead down hill. One has a Rockhopper too and the other a Giant Anthem full susser. They all suggest I hang more over the rear wheel and just go for it. But someting deep in my mind stops me from doing this and makes me sit on the brakes all the way down.
I'm also the same around corners having had a couple of offs where the front wheel has slipped underneath me.
The MTB magazines talk about shifting there weight around on the bike etc, but I'm not really sure on this technique. Can anyone give me some pointers.
Also one last thing.
I want to get a mid travel full susser in the spring. I've got my eyes on a Kona 'The King'. Kona seem very quiet in the XC world, are they any good. I will try others from Giant and Specialized, but I liked the kit spec. on the Kona.
Thanks in advance.
Kev
westy04 said:
Can anyone give me advice.
I've been riding my MTB (Speccy Rockhopper) a decent amount over the last 3 years, but I'm a total girl when it comes to blasting down some single track. The type of single track thats littered with tree roots and rutted like hell from the rain.
My mates litterally leave me for dead down hill. One has a Rockhopper too and the other a Giant Anthem full susser. They all suggest I hang more over the rear wheel and just go for it. But someting deep in my mind stops me from doing this and makes me sit on the brakes all the way down.
I'm also the same around corners having had a couple of offs where the front wheel has slipped underneath me.
The MTB magazines talk about shifting there weight around on the bike etc, but I'm not really sure on this technique. Can anyone give me some pointers.
Also one last thing.
I want to get a mid travel full susser in the spring. I've got my eyes on a Kona 'The King'. Kona seem very quiet in the XC world, are they any good. I will try others from Giant and Specialized, but I liked the kit spec. on the Kona.
Thanks in advance.
Kev
I've been riding my MTB (Speccy Rockhopper) a decent amount over the last 3 years, but I'm a total girl when it comes to blasting down some single track. The type of single track thats littered with tree roots and rutted like hell from the rain.
My mates litterally leave me for dead down hill. One has a Rockhopper too and the other a Giant Anthem full susser. They all suggest I hang more over the rear wheel and just go for it. But someting deep in my mind stops me from doing this and makes me sit on the brakes all the way down.
I'm also the same around corners having had a couple of offs where the front wheel has slipped underneath me.
The MTB magazines talk about shifting there weight around on the bike etc, but I'm not really sure on this technique. Can anyone give me some pointers.
Also one last thing.
I want to get a mid travel full susser in the spring. I've got my eyes on a Kona 'The King'. Kona seem very quiet in the XC world, are they any good. I will try others from Giant and Specialized, but I liked the kit spec. on the Kona.
Thanks in advance.
Kev
Go loose.
As soon as you tense up, your weight shifts, and you end up bouncing about.
The further back you get the better, but beware, sometimes you need to ensure you don't compromise your position over then bike for this.
As a result find a middle ground in which you can let the bike move about on its own, whilst moving the bike where you want it.
Cover the brakes, or even 'drag' the them (rear first), but don't allow the brake to move your weight forward.
Practise is the only way. And falling off
eh pete
Westy04 said:
I'm also the same around corners having had a couple of offs where the front wheel has slipped underneath me
With regards to loss of grip of the front wheel, learn to lay the bike, not your weight when cornering.
Losing the front end is all down to pushing too much through a tyre that can't handle the level of grip over the weight on it.
By laying the bike over, and keeping your weight off the front a little, you'll maximise the grip, and around you'll go.
Also, learn to be happy with the front sliding a little - sometimes you will get the front go, but it isn't a bad thing - if you can be comfortable with it, then you'll not come off in surprise.
Many people have the skill, but react badly when a situation arises leading to them spilling.
Edited by neil_cardiff on Thursday 7th December 13:19
Edited by neil_cardiff on Thursday 7th December 13:20
Indeed! 
My advice seems to be the opposite of what has been given but it must work as I am fast on the twisty stuff.
The way to get more grip on a tyre is to get more weight on it. So if the front is skidding around a bend lean forward. When cornering I noticably lean forward. But it is about balance and maximising grip. If you lean forward too far the rear will skid. But every bike I have ridden I really have to make an effort to get forward and low. i explained this to other people and they were amazed at the difference.
One of the best ways to lean is to practice cornering. A snow covered car park is ideal, though a gravel area, wet grass, mud or even tarmac will do. The higher the grip the more speed you will need. Now just practice cornering faster and faster. When you get it right both wheels will slip together.
Another way is to find a bend at the bottom of a hill. Now go up the hill and freewheel into the bend with a death grip (hands on the grips and not ready to brake) and go around the corner. Work up the hill a bike length at a time and freewheel into the bend. This will build up confidence. Try to keep both feet on the pedals, outer pedal down with body weight on it. Soon you will be going into the bend at a speed where the brain will say "no way" but stick with the death grip and stay smooth and you will get round.
You can also encourage a slide and see how easy it is to control. If you really want to go fast you have to "speedway" it round with opposite lock.........
The line around the bend is also important, use all the track.
I hope this helps,
John
The way to get more grip on a tyre is to get more weight on it. So if the front is skidding around a bend lean forward. When cornering I noticably lean forward. But it is about balance and maximising grip. If you lean forward too far the rear will skid. But every bike I have ridden I really have to make an effort to get forward and low. i explained this to other people and they were amazed at the difference.
One of the best ways to lean is to practice cornering. A snow covered car park is ideal, though a gravel area, wet grass, mud or even tarmac will do. The higher the grip the more speed you will need. Now just practice cornering faster and faster. When you get it right both wheels will slip together.
Another way is to find a bend at the bottom of a hill. Now go up the hill and freewheel into the bend with a death grip (hands on the grips and not ready to brake) and go around the corner. Work up the hill a bike length at a time and freewheel into the bend. This will build up confidence. Try to keep both feet on the pedals, outer pedal down with body weight on it. Soon you will be going into the bend at a speed where the brain will say "no way" but stick with the death grip and stay smooth and you will get round.
You can also encourage a slide and see how easy it is to control. If you really want to go fast you have to "speedway" it round with opposite lock.........
The line around the bend is also important, use all the track.
I hope this helps,
John
neil_cardiff said:
markelvin said:
Only answer is some full sussy, my B17 & I are happy blasting doewn hills, even afte rmany years of abuse shes going strong.
Its not the answer - it pisses me off that people try to mask a lack of skill with super duper full sussers without having understood what it is they are doing.
No good blasting into a corner 5mph quicker because you can, then realising you've run out of skill quickly.
A well ridden hardtail will piss all over a badly ridden full susser - I know - I've been beaten by many in DH races.
Take the time to learn how to master the basics on a hardtail, and then move to full suspension, in which you can learn how to develop more advanced skills not attainable with hard tails, such as compressing into corners, pre-compression etc.
I've no problem with people buying them at all, but it winds me up when they sniff at hardtails - I'm keen to get back on one to help redevelop some skills again I can't do on a full susser.
Edited by neil_cardiff on Thursday 7th December 13:14
Yep - all of that. I've had six or seven years on a hardtail (in fact first bike was fully rigid...) I'm as quick on my hardtail down most tracks as many of my friends on their full-sus bikes.
Keep loose and let the bike move under you like a pendulum - you should have the sensation that the saddle is just missing your groin. The obvious answer though is to just not use the brakes as much. Another tip is to follow a quicker rider on a hardtail and try to stay on the same lines.
This all goes to pot on a FS bike, as you quickly rely on the suspension to soak up the bumps and compensate for the errors in your lines.
If you still want to get a FS bike, you can't really go wrong with Giant's current range - Trance is a 4" trail bike and the Anthem is a 2.5" bike more for XC racing.
Practice jumps as this will quickly teach you how to let the bike hang under you. If your too rigid you will likely go ass over tit. If your loose, weight over the back, you compress then jump out of the lip you will naturally let the bike hang, so land safe. Basically fall off a lot and learn from it, quickly.
commitment, thats what i consider the most important aspect of speed over rough ground where tapping a rythem out isn't important.And i'm an idiot that races a suspensionless bike.The risk level is still the same, 100% maximum is maximum, suspension or not.It is a risky sport if your going down single track at 100%.Maybe your friends are riding max and your riding within yourself?
As a side issue, from my own experience of racing on many events, the weight difference for cross country is everything and as a compromise what is made up by carrying 2.5kgs less when climbing, on most events can not be made up decending.However, you will have to put plasters on your nipples for a three hour event with no suspension for sure.
As a side issue, from my own experience of racing on many events, the weight difference for cross country is everything and as a compromise what is made up by carrying 2.5kgs less when climbing, on most events can not be made up decending.However, you will have to put plasters on your nipples for a three hour event with no suspension for sure.
beyond rational said:
There are plenty of idiots on hardtails, they just pay less for the priviledge and therefore get noticed less. You can flow as well on a FS as you can on a HT, there is no reason why you can not, especially over undulations where wheel contact is maintained.
Never once said there wasn't idiots on a hardtail eith - if anything they are even worse as they stick to the excuse of "I'm riding a hardtail because its better than losing weight power etc etc etc".
Where I was coming was to reinforce the fact that it is better to get a firm grip on the basics whilst riding a hardtail, and then move to a full sus bike once the rider is then sufficiently skilled enough to make best of the characteristics of the suspension.
For instance, I watch loads of full sus riders stand up and climb with their bikes - well, why? Most of the bikes will work better when sat down. Additionally, most people don't understand the difference in the way they need to corner in order to make the most of the designs.
In short, it builds bad habits and shortfalls in skills if the rider is not learning how to properly ride each type of bike. A Full Susser will mask much of these, just as many traction control systems will help mask a complete lack of car control at times.
The OP was asking for help in how to improve his riding, in which there have been many alternative points - all completely valid (as everyone IS different) - however throwing money at a bike won't help it - but improving his skill then buying something nice will.
I know I can ride MUCH quicker on my full sussers, however, I know that it masks a lack of finesses that I develop with riding these, and by now moving back to a hardtail I hope to rediscover my 'lightness' on a bike in preparation for starting some DHing again next year.
I think the poster further back has it right. Get your weight forward. You see loads of people (and full sussers don't help) leaning back when going into a corner. You think your weight is in the right place but someone watching can tell you don't have your weight over the front wheel. This will help, adopt a sort of speedway grasp of the bars, elbows out, wrists almost vertical, it will force you forward. Then relax a little and just try it down a few twisties, you don't have to be going fast to feel that the bike is reponding better. Then build up your speed. As I said above, full sussers won't help, in fact they make the situation worse because they tend to have a more relaxed head angle, riser bars and you tend to sit down in them rather than on them, as you would a hardtail. I have to conciosuly pull myself forward on my FSR to make the best of the handling.
Westy. Its also picking the right line. Using berms , slow in and fast out. Smoothly smoothly speed will come. Try going into a technical section or downhill you know slowly and not using the brakes ( or until till you really have to! ). It makes you think about your line and how smooth you can be.
P.S. Took an xc full susser out today for a test ride. Hated it. I'll keep my hardtail S Works.
G
P.S. Took an xc full susser out today for a test ride. Hated it. I'll keep my hardtail S Works.
G
Oh dear, 4wd. It was an FSR! Maybe I didnt blat down enough hills, but: More weight than I'm used to, with all that suspension you cant just flick/lift bike over ruts etc, less feed back from trails, sram shifters stuck into my thumbs, can't adjust front and rear suspension lock outs quick enough, should be easier to adjust on the go. Cable remote would sort this though. Good rear grip when climbing but front end lifts. You sit too far back/away from pedals. My son took it to Leith Hill, loved it, said its soooooooooo fast down hill. True, but 80% of riding is flat, uphill or undulating, well my riding is. I'm sure its very capable ( as the reviews verify ). I will try it again. Will be doing Bristol 12 hour again next year. I think I might drag it along to use for the last few hours, Give my butt a rest!
Do you guys know what my favorite bike to ride at the moment is? Singlespeed Stumpjumper. Been do my 17 mile( each way ) commute on it a couple a days a week now. Garage full of bling bikes plus Honda SP1 I usually ride, but I chose a singlespeed. I am at one with it!
G
P.S. I think an Epic with the BrainFade shock would suit me. Yeah, next year.
Do you guys know what my favorite bike to ride at the moment is? Singlespeed Stumpjumper. Been do my 17 mile( each way ) commute on it a couple a days a week now. Garage full of bling bikes plus Honda SP1 I usually ride, but I chose a singlespeed. I am at one with it!
G
P.S. I think an Epic with the BrainFade shock would suit me. Yeah, next year.
All full suspension does is raise the speed and comfort levels that you can travel at. Wether its more fun is a matter of opinion. My brother used to ride hardtail (Orange E1 then Pace with 70mm travel front Forks). Generally he could keep up with us boys with 4" of travel but he said he was battered and was always so close to having a big off.
He now rides my old Superlight after saying he never needs full suspension and admits it has given MTBing a new dimension and is so much fun.
I now have 5" of travel and need it where I ride. But most places in the UK it is too much.
I too choose a bike by its climbing ability. A full suspension is always going to be heavier but my bike weighs just over 25lbs, thats with 130mm travel at the front and 5" at the rear. It is built light but not at the expense of strength. It climbs steep technical climbs better than any hardtail could.
Also with certain suspension designs you do not need a lockout (Maverick and DW link) or if you get a shock with lots of low speed compression damping this will reduce pedal induced movement.
Give full suspension a chance, its not marketing hype.
John
He now rides my old Superlight after saying he never needs full suspension and admits it has given MTBing a new dimension and is so much fun.
I now have 5" of travel and need it where I ride. But most places in the UK it is too much.
I too choose a bike by its climbing ability. A full suspension is always going to be heavier but my bike weighs just over 25lbs, thats with 130mm travel at the front and 5" at the rear. It is built light but not at the expense of strength. It climbs steep technical climbs better than any hardtail could.
Also with certain suspension designs you do not need a lockout (Maverick and DW link) or if you get a shock with lots of low speed compression damping this will reduce pedal induced movement.
Give full suspension a chance, its not marketing hype.
John
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