Upgrades... so where would you start?

[AARONM3]

My bike is my hobby and as such I reserve the right to replace perfectly good serviceable items with shiny new ones. I'm not into spending loads of money but I like to splash a little bit on the bike each month, especially if I come across things cheap online.

Thing is, for the first few months I had plenty to buy as I had all old gear- so I got lights, helmet, pump, heart rate monitor, computer etc. etc. but now I've run out of things that I actually need. So, these being the tech specs of my bike what would you recommend I replace and in what order?

Fork RST 381R, 2.75" travel
Frame Material Aluminum
Hubs Front: Formula OV 31, Rear: Shimano Alivio
Rims Sun Rims ZJ-19
Suspension Front Suspension
Tires 26 x 1.95" Hutchinson Chameleon
Weight 28.25
Brake Levers Tektro 381A
Brakeset Tektro 823A linear-pull brakes, Tektro 381A levers
Front Brake Tektro 823A linear-pull
Front Brake Lever Tektro 381A
Rear Brake Tektro 823A linear-pull
Rear Brake Lever Tektro 381A
Bottom Bracket Shimano BB-LP27, 110mm spindle
Bottom Bracket Shell Width 68mm English
Bottom Bracket Spindle Length 110mm
Chain KMC IG-51, 1/2 x 3/32"
Chain Size 1/2 x 3/32"
Chainrings 24/34/42
Crankset Shimano Alivio, 24/34/42 teeth
Front Derailleur Shimano Alivio top-swing, top-pull/clamp-on 31.8mm
Front Derailleur Type top-pull/clamp-on 31.8mm
Handlebar Kalloy Riser 6061 butted
Handlebar Extensions Not included
Handlebar Stem Kalloy aluminum
Head Tube Angle 71
Headset 1 1/8" threadless Aheadset STS
Headset Diameter 1 1/8" threadless
Largest Rear Cog 30
Number of Rear Cogs 8-speed
Pedals Wellgo LU-955A w/clips & straps
Rear Cogs 8-speed, 11 - 30 teeth
Rear Derailleur Shimano STX-RC
Saddle Velo VL-2000
Seat Post Diameter 27.2mm
Seat Tube Angle 73.5
Seatpost Kalloy SP-339, 27.2mm diameter
Shift Levers Shimano Alivio RapidFire SL
Smallest Rear Cog 11
Fork and Suspension
Fork Crown triple-clamp
Fork Material aluminum/chromoly, triple-clamp crown
Fork Travel 2.75" travel
Frame Angles 71.0 head, 73.5 seat
Frame Construction TIG-welded
Frame Tubing Material 7005 aluminum w/replaceable derailleur hanger
Chainstay Length 42.5cm
Fork Rake Unspecified
Top Tube Length 55.5cm
Wheelbase 105.5cm
Wheels and Hubs
Front Hub Formula OV 31
Front Rim Sun Rims ZJ-19
Front Tire Size 26 x 1.95"
Rear Hub Shimano Alivio
Rear Rim Sun Rims ZJ-19
Rear Tire Size 26 x 1.95"
Spoke Brand Sha-Dar stainless steel, 1.8mm straight gauge
Spoke Gauge 1.8mm
Spoke Holes 32-hole
Spoke Material stainless steel
Spoke Nipples brass nipples
Spoke Type straight gauge

I can't really see any specific truly poor quality components but the frame does seem worthy of upgrading and I guess after a few years when all the bits are tricked up I can just transport it all onto a more expensive frame.

[lotisi]

Can you post a pcture?

[AARONM3]

I got the spec from here and there's also a pic.

http://www0.epinions.com/bike-Bicycle

[neil_cardiff]

AARONM3 said:

I can't really see any specific truly poor quality components but the frame does seem worthy of upgrading and I guess after a few years when all the bits are tricked up I can just transport it all onto a more expensive frame.

I can.

Basically the bike is not really worthy of upgrading. The componentry (without getting too tchnical) isn't really compatible with anything else, and all the lightweight upgrades in the world won't help what is essentially a cheap alu frame from Taiwan that is still heavy. The forks will be pants too...

This bike that is built to an image and price, and not really built for it's proper usage.

I would recommend looking at saving a bit and buying a 2005/2006 model £500/600 hardtail with front sus, in which you'll get a great frame and great components.

Trust me, the frame on that bike is NOT worth upgrading, nor is it worth replacing bits. You won't improve it. Look to replace the whole thing - it will be MUCH more satifying...

Edited by neil_cardiff on Friday 10th November 16:28

[AARONM3]

Okay, I concede that the fork isn't up to much but I can't see that a £600 bike now has a better frame. It seems to have decent welds and is 7005 Alu which is the same as many bikes around that price point that I have seen. It's a '99 so the fork is somewhat out of date as well but as even with that the stock weight seems reasonable for the whole package.

Jamis bikes appear to be well-regarded on the US scene just not so popular over here...

Edited by AARONM3 on Friday 10th November 16:31

[neil_cardiff]

AARONM3 said:

Okay, I concede that the fork isn't up to much but I can't see that a £600 bike now has a better frame. It seems to have decent welds and is 7005 Alu which is the same as many bikes around that price point that I have seen.

It's a '99 so the fork is somewhat out of date as well but as even with that the stock weight seems reasonable for the whole package.

Trust me Arron, I may not be great on technical stuff on cars, but I do know the difference between cheap and good quality frames.

Try this: www.evanscycles.com/product.jsp?style=5284

Thats a shit hot bike, and the frame is second to none.

You would not like to know just how much I can buy a similar frame to yours direct from taiwan. There are all sorts of differences between these frames - and you'll really notice the difference if you rode one.

Edited to add: Jamis are fine. However all cheaper bikes in EVERYONES range of bikes use taiwan sourced frames, and are all basically picked out of a book when the product manager decides the new range.

So essentially, no matter how great the company, you're still getting a basic frame. Additionally, 7005 isn't all that - now 6001, now you're talking... also theres stuff like butting, heat treatment etc buts thats getting technical

Edited by neil_cardiff on Friday 10th November 16:35

[neil_cardiff]

neil_cardiff said:

AARONM3 said:

Okay, I concede that the fork isn't up to much but I can't see that a £600 bike now has a better frame. It seems to have decent welds and is 7005 Alu which is the same as many bikes around that price point that I have seen.

It's a '99 so the fork is somewhat out of date as well but as even with that the stock weight seems reasonable for the whole package.

Trust me Arron, I may not be great on technical stuff on cars, but I do know the difference between cheap and good quality frames.

Try this: www.evanscycles.com/product.jsp?style=5284

Thats a shit hot bike, and the frame is second to none.

You would not like to know just how much I can buy a similar frame to yours direct from taiwan. There are all sorts of differences between these frames - and you'll really notice the difference if you rode one.

Edited to add: Jamis are fine. However all cheaper bikes in EVERYONES range of bikes use taiwan sourced frames, and are all basically picked out of a book when the product manager decides the new range.

So essentially, no matter how great the company, you're still getting a basic frame. Additionally, 7005 isn't all that - now 6001, now you're talking... also theres stuff like butting, heat treatment etc buts thats getting technical

Edited by neil_cardiff on Friday 10th November 16:35

Actually don't try that bike - I've just noticed its a DH type hardtail.

Try this: www.evanscycles.com/product.jsp?style=5339

[AARONM3]

Fair enough, you obviously know your stuff. At the moment though even if it is a touch crappy I think that for the time being as I build back up my old MTBing skills it is a solid enough performer for my needs- perhaps for Christmas I will ask Santa for a Kona but for the time being if I got some clipless pedals and such for the Jamis I can always stick those on the new bike.

Actually I generally ride with my dad- he has Joe Murray designed '91 Kona Fire Mountain... I guess he might notice a helluva difference if he got a new one!

Although now you've got me lusting after a new ride... and I can go past an Evans on the way to the station... :-)

[AARONM3]

btw- the frame on mine is heated treated, triple butted alu.

Edit- actually, not sure now- the latest one is...

Edited by AARONM3 on Friday 10th November 16:47

[neil_cardiff]

AARONM3 said:

Fair enough, you obviously know your stuff. At the moment though even if it is a touch crappy I think that for the time being as I build back up my old MTBing skills it is a solid enough performer for my needs- perhaps for Christmas I will ask Santa for a Kona but for the time being if I got some clipless pedals and such for the Jamis I can always stick those on the new bike.

Actually I generally ride with my dad- he has Joe Murray designed '91 Kona Fire Mountain... I guess he might notice a helluva difference if he got a new one!

Although now you've got me lusting after a new ride... and I can go past an Evans on the way to the station... :-)

In all fairness, you'll notice more of a difference with clipless pedals than a new bike - they are the one best upgrade you CAN do to any bike.

However, yes, a new bike would be an easier upgrade - you might even get a good price on a part ex!

If you need any advice - just ask away

[AARONM3]

Cheers, much appreciated.

Putting the whole new bike thing to onside for a moment I would like some clipless pedals but heard that they require a reasonable amount of maintenance. I do care for my bike but especially at this time of year it does tend to get run ragged all week and only cleaned up on the weekend- what would be the best budget pedals that could take a bit of abuse and only the odd bit of simple maintenance?

I've been looking on Chainreactioncycles.com as they seem to have really good discounts on old stock but can you recommend any other decent places to look?

[neil_cardiff]

AARONM3 said:

Cheers, much appreciated.

Putting the whole new bike thing to onside for a moment I would like some clipless pedals but heard that they require a reasonable amount of maintenance. I do care for my bike but especially at this time of year it does tend to get run ragged all week and only cleaned up on the weekend- what would be the best budget pedals that could take a bit of abuse and only the odd bit of simple maintenance?

I've been looking on Chainreactioncycles.com as they seem to have really good discounts on old stock but can you recommend any other decent places to look?

Who says that? Whoever it was is talking out of their arse - pedals are probably the most reliable thing on a bike!

I've NEVER touched any of my Shimano SPD pedals in my lifetime of riding. Go for Shimano SPDs and you'll be fine

I never clean mine, never grease them, and my XTR pedals are still as sweet as the day I brought them. I used to run LX pedals and they were always as reliable.

HTH

Edited to add : CHain Reaction will be fine - but try and support your local bike shop - they can alway give you good advice

Edited by neil_cardiff on Friday 10th November 16:57

[pdV6]

To echo Neil's comments, basically all the components & fork etc on your bike are as near bottom of the range as makes no difference. The minute you go replacing one item, you'll have to do the lot.

For what it'll cost you to do that, you may as well pick up a complete new bike with a better frame into the bargain.

Give clipless pedals a go - you'll not regret it (at least, not after the scars from the first accidentally-clipped-in-falling-off-whilst-stationary incident fade ). The only downside will be the need to buy compatible footwear, unless you already have a suitable pair.

[4WD]

Ebay it and start from scratch, or you'll throw good money after bad.

[AARONM3]

Seems a consensus has been established. Think I'll put my cash into a new bike and ride this one to death and improve my skills in the meantime whilst I save the pennies.

[neil_cardiff]

AARONM3 said:

Seems a consensus has been established. Think I'll put my cash into a new bike and ride this one to death and improve my skills in the meantime whilst I save the pennies.

Do get the clipless pedals though - then when you get the new one, you won't scratch it when you fall over trying to unclip

[LRdriver II]

If you really want to upgrade, then make sure you can take it across to your next steed. Maybe a nice light wheelset or start changing handlebars/stem out for something lighter. This way, when you come to find your dream frame on ebay or used, you can pop all that stuff over on to it. Thus you put all the old bits back on the old frame and sell it.

[beyond rational]

Edited for relavent points -

neil_cardiff said:

Trust me Arron, I may not be great on technical stuff on cars, but I do know the difference between cheap and good quality frames....

......So essentially, no matter how great the company, you're still getting a basic frame. Additionally, 7005 isn't all that - now 6001, now you're talking... also theres stuff like butting, heat treatment etc buts thats getting technical

Edited by neil_cardiff on Friday 10th November 16:35

Please explain this. How do you quantify 6001 (I assume you mean 6061?) as being superior to 7005 - there are many, many great frames out there in 7005, (and 7075 come to that) 7005 being superior tensionally and fatigue wise to 6061 - it may be harder to weld but it can be done to as high as standard so why diminish it as a frame material?

Edited by beyond rational on Sunday 12th November 01:29

[neil_cardiff]

beyond rational said:

Edited for relavent points -

neil_cardiff said:

Trust me Arron, I may not be great on technical stuff on cars, but I do know the difference between cheap and good quality frames....

......So essentially, no matter how great the company, you're still getting a basic frame. Additionally, 7005 isn't all that - now 6001, now you're talking... also theres stuff like butting, heat treatment etc buts thats getting technical

Edited by neil_cardiff on Friday 10th November 16:35

Please explain this. How do you quantify 6001 (I assume you mean 6061?) as being superior to 7005 - there are many, many great frames out there in 7005, (and 7075 come to that) 7005 being superior tensionally and fatigue wise to 6061 - it may be harder to weld but it can be done to as high as standard so why diminish it as a frame material?

Edited by beyond rational on Sunday 12th November 01:29

Generally because 6061 (slip of the keyboard before) is an easier material to manipulate - it is much easier than 7005 to add strength adding tubing features like triple butting, ovalized tubing, and tapered walls that reduce the weight and improve the strength of the tubing. You'll also find that in standard untreated form 7005 will always be stronger than 6061. However, add in T6 heat treatment, and it then becomes as good as, if not better than 7005*.

Additionally, as most 7005 frames are made in the far east - to a budget, you'll find that the quality may be slightly inferior - therefore running the risk of quality issues that result in failure.

Most 6061 is used by North American builders, and in my experience their attention to detail and quality is always far higher than the Taiwan sourced frames. This is not to discredit the quality frames that do come from Taiwan however, but having been raised on American built aluminum Gary Fisers and Treks (all 6061), and having ridden several different types of other branded frames in 7005, I can vouch for the quality and improvement in ride quality and vibration damping a well design 6061 frame can bring.

*Other frame materials are available, your home may be at risk, etc etc

Edited by neil_cardiff on Sunday 12th November 09:28

Edited by neil_cardiff on Sunday 12th November 09:29

[beyond rational]

neil_cardiff said:

beyond rational said:

Edited for relavent points -

neil_cardiff said:

Trust me Arron, I may not be great on technical stuff on cars, but I do know the difference between cheap and good quality frames....

......So essentially, no matter how great the company, you're still getting a basic frame. Additionally, 7005 isn't all that - now 6001, now you're talking... also theres stuff like butting, heat treatment etc buts thats getting technical

Edited by neil_cardiff on Friday 10th November 16:35

Please explain this. How do you quantify 6001 (I assume you mean 6061?) as being superior to 7005 - there are many, many great frames out there in 7005, (and 7075 come to that) 7005 being superior tensionally and fatigue wise to 6061 - it may be harder to weld but it can be done to as high as standard so why diminish it as a frame material?

Edited by beyond rational on Sunday 12th November 01:29

Generally because 6061 (slip of the keyboard before) is an easier material to manipulate - it is much easier than 7005 to add strength adding tubing features like triple butting, ovalized tubing, and tapered walls that reduce the weight and improve the strength of the tubing. You'll also find that in standard untreated form 7005 will always be stronger than 6061. However, add in T6 heat treatment, and it then becomes as good as, if not better than 7005*.

Additionally, as most 7005 frames are made in the far east - to a budget, you'll find that the quality may be slightly inferior - therefore running the risk of quality issues that result in failure.

Most 6061 is used by North American builders, and in my experience their attention to detail and quality is always far higher than the Taiwan sourced frames. This is not to discredit the quality frames that do come from Taiwan however, but having been raised on American built aluminum Gary Fisers and Treks (all 6061), and having ridden several different types of other branded frames in 7005, I can vouch for the quality and improvement in ride quality and vibration damping a well design 6061 frame can bring.

*Other frame materials are available, your home may be at risk, etc etc

Edited by neil_cardiff on Sunday 12th November 09:28

Edited by neil_cardiff on Sunday 12th November 09:29

I've never seen it suggested anywhere before though that 6061 T6 is as strong as 7005 T6, a few tests on frames show a well made (and they do exist!) to be stronger.There are many premium 7005 frames with triple butting, ovalized tubing, and tapered walls. i've never tried a 7005 and a 6061 with the same geo and componentary back to back so I can't comment on the vibration/ride quality, but I must say it is very supprising that you can feel the difference a few % of zinc or magnesium can make.

Edited by beyond rational on Sunday 12th November 13:03

Edited by beyond rational on Sunday 12th November 13:43