Gah. Need help
Discussion
Right, I've been cycling constantly, every week, since the beginning of the year. Started off in January doing around 20 miles a week, slowly increasing it. As of about 2 months ago, I'm doing about 60-80 miles a week.
Trouble is, despite eating about 1500-2500 calories a day, mostly meat, fish, veg and berries, my weight has barely changed. Its 16 stone 4lb now, and it was 16 stone 8lb at the start of the year.
Now obviously I've built up a heck of a lot of muscle mass in those months - my legs are massive compared to January, so I have indeed burnt a fair bit of fat, but I'm confused.
Today I did about 25 miles, my usual mileage, only I was flying along like nothing on earth. I mean I was literally racing along for all I was worth - and when I got home, I wasn't even tired. The ride takes me about 90 minutes.
Whats going on? I'm still building muscle mass, but the scales are barely shifting. I'm not eating any simple carbs or refined crap, its all natural stuff, and the scales are inching down ever so slowly. I reckon my mega-fit weight would be about 14.5 stones, I'm aiming for 15 stones.
Should I just drop my calorific intake slightly? Or perhaps push harder on the bike? Or ride for longer distances? Or ride more miles in the week? I usually cycle one day, rest the other day, af infinitum.
So annoying, years ago I was mega-fit doing about 100 miles a week on my road bike! Then I started working in TV, all those meals out and service station sandwiches....
Trouble is, despite eating about 1500-2500 calories a day, mostly meat, fish, veg and berries, my weight has barely changed. Its 16 stone 4lb now, and it was 16 stone 8lb at the start of the year.
Now obviously I've built up a heck of a lot of muscle mass in those months - my legs are massive compared to January, so I have indeed burnt a fair bit of fat, but I'm confused.
Today I did about 25 miles, my usual mileage, only I was flying along like nothing on earth. I mean I was literally racing along for all I was worth - and when I got home, I wasn't even tired. The ride takes me about 90 minutes.
Whats going on? I'm still building muscle mass, but the scales are barely shifting. I'm not eating any simple carbs or refined crap, its all natural stuff, and the scales are inching down ever so slowly. I reckon my mega-fit weight would be about 14.5 stones, I'm aiming for 15 stones.
Should I just drop my calorific intake slightly? Or perhaps push harder on the bike? Or ride for longer distances? Or ride more miles in the week? I usually cycle one day, rest the other day, af infinitum.
So annoying, years ago I was mega-fit doing about 100 miles a week on my road bike! Then I started working in TV, all those meals out and service station sandwiches....
Edited by Parrot of Doom on Thursday 24th August 02:05
Couple of things.
First, it's no lie when people say "muscle is heavier than fat". Muscle is a more dense tissue than fat, so muscle will weigh more than the same volume of fat. If you're building muscle it's not surprising your weight isn't dropping.
Second, if you're riding hard enough to build muscle, you're probably going past your optimum fat-burning range. There's a specific range of effort where you're working hard enough to burn fat but not so hard that you start to break down muscle (and hence replace it with extra muscle). When running, this is usually with a heart rate between 120 and 140bpm (I think). So possibly longer, slower rides are required if you want to lose weight.
Cheers,
E.
First, it's no lie when people say "muscle is heavier than fat". Muscle is a more dense tissue than fat, so muscle will weigh more than the same volume of fat. If you're building muscle it's not surprising your weight isn't dropping.
Second, if you're riding hard enough to build muscle, you're probably going past your optimum fat-burning range. There's a specific range of effort where you're working hard enough to burn fat but not so hard that you start to break down muscle (and hence replace it with extra muscle). When running, this is usually with a heart rate between 120 and 140bpm (I think). So possibly longer, slower rides are required if you want to lose weight.
Cheers,
E.
Edited by ewenm on Thursday 24th August 09:41
ewenm said:
Couple of things.
First, it's no lie when people say "muscle is heavier than fat". Muscle is a more dense tissue than fat, so muscle will weigh more than the same volume of fat. If you're building muscle it's not surprising your weight isn't dropping.
Second, if you're riding hard enough to build muscle, you're probably going past your optimum fat-burning range. There's a specific range of effort where you're working hard enough to burn fat but not so hard that you start to break down muscle (and hence replace it with extra muscle). When running, this is usually with a heart rate between 120 and 140bmp (I think). So possibly longer, slower rides are required if you want to lose weight.
Cheers,
E.
First, it's no lie when people say "muscle is heavier than fat". Muscle is a more dense tissue than fat, so muscle will weigh more than the same volume of fat. If you're building muscle it's not surprising your weight isn't dropping.
Second, if you're riding hard enough to build muscle, you're probably going past your optimum fat-burning range. There's a specific range of effort where you're working hard enough to burn fat but not so hard that you start to break down muscle (and hence replace it with extra muscle). When running, this is usually with a heart rate between 120 and 140bmp (I think). So possibly longer, slower rides are required if you want to lose weight.
Cheers,
E.
Agree that.
The optimum level for burning fat is "level 2" (on a 1-5 scale). This means you are not using the reserves stored in the liver, but fat surrounding muscles. It is the equivalent of a steady walk. Tearing around the countryside may be exhilirating, but it is unproductive in terms of losing weight. You need to go steady and increase the mileage.
There is a theory that if you indulge on steady exercise with the minimum of pre-session food intake, it reduces weight quicker. You need to be careful considering this and is a no-no if you are diabetic. Always take glucose with you when exercising.
I know exactly where you are coming from Parrott.
It's all very well generating more muscle & power but your cardio system is working overtime to generate so much more power required to get you up long climbs at the same speed as your average 12 stone club rider!
I got down from from 16.7 to 15.9 since Jan - makes a huge difference on the climbs.
Level 2 for a longer time is the generally accepted method, very time consuming though - esp. once other responsibilities dictate.
Another 'Clydesdale' ex racer mate of mine has been doing the following with great success:
During week:
6.30am - weights (sets of 16) 30-45 min
Lunchtime - 30 min run
6.30 pm - 50-90mins ride
This keeps his metabolic rate high throughout the whole day and he has lost several kilos in the past few weeks.
Weekend:
1 or 2 120-240 min rides
I am starting to cut carbs out after 6pm & when I'm on a ride I use just water but have my 2nd bidon 3/4 full of energy drink - in case I get 'the knock' on the way home - if I feel OK I don't use it. Same at the gym.
It's all very well generating more muscle & power but your cardio system is working overtime to generate so much more power required to get you up long climbs at the same speed as your average 12 stone club rider!
I got down from from 16.7 to 15.9 since Jan - makes a huge difference on the climbs.
Level 2 for a longer time is the generally accepted method, very time consuming though - esp. once other responsibilities dictate.
Another 'Clydesdale' ex racer mate of mine has been doing the following with great success:
During week:
6.30am - weights (sets of 16) 30-45 min
Lunchtime - 30 min run
6.30 pm - 50-90mins ride
This keeps his metabolic rate high throughout the whole day and he has lost several kilos in the past few weeks.
Weekend:
1 or 2 120-240 min rides
I am starting to cut carbs out after 6pm & when I'm on a ride I use just water but have my 2nd bidon 3/4 full of energy drink - in case I get 'the knock' on the way home - if I feel OK I don't use it. Same at the gym.
I've had fantastic results with my current routine. I've gone from 16st 4 (weight lifting, not looking fat - just big and undefined) to 14st 7 over 4 months.
What did I change:
1) diet. I still eat loads but there are no wasted calories in my deit. Lots of fresh fish and mountains of fruit and veg in my diet.
2) started cycling again - mountain biking once a week (would like to do more, but I live in central london so only get out into the country at weekends)
3) 2 gym sessions. mostly Aerobic - either cross country ski machine (50 mins - heart rate 140 to 170), or spin bike (simulating a 45 min climb.. feels just like a road bike - very good) + weight circuits (mostly free weights - with as close to zero rest as possible between all elements of the circuit)
4) more walking in my trip to work
Feeling great, lean and still carrying the muscle that I want to. Really enjoying biking again.
What did I change:
1) diet. I still eat loads but there are no wasted calories in my deit. Lots of fresh fish and mountains of fruit and veg in my diet.
2) started cycling again - mountain biking once a week (would like to do more, but I live in central london so only get out into the country at weekends)
3) 2 gym sessions. mostly Aerobic - either cross country ski machine (50 mins - heart rate 140 to 170), or spin bike (simulating a 45 min climb.. feels just like a road bike - very good) + weight circuits (mostly free weights - with as close to zero rest as possible between all elements of the circuit)
4) more walking in my trip to work
Feeling great, lean and still carrying the muscle that I want to. Really enjoying biking again.
I think I must still be building muscle. Rides just seem to get easier all the time, and I eat loads of meat and fish.
I'm just hoping that one day I'll reach some kind of equilibrium where I don't need any more muscle, and my body just burns the remaining fat away.
I wonder if its worth getting a fancy cycle computer with heart monitor?
I'm just hoping that one day I'll reach some kind of equilibrium where I don't need any more muscle, and my body just burns the remaining fat away.
I wonder if its worth getting a fancy cycle computer with heart monitor?
I don't really have the ability to follow a strict regime. I have no set timetable with regard to work, and often have no control over what I'm able to eat. For example, last week I was in Leeds on Tuesday, Blackburn Wed/Thu, flew from Liverpool Friday afternoon, France sat/sun. Didn't get any cycling in whatsoever.
Really I'm just a bit confused that my weight doesn't appear to be dropping much, considering I don't eat any processed foods, sugar, crap, etc. Just meats, fish, veg, berries, dairy produce, diet coke.... I always eat plenty of protein after a ride.
Really I'm just a bit confused that my weight doesn't appear to be dropping much, considering I don't eat any processed foods, sugar, crap, etc. Just meats, fish, veg, berries, dairy produce, diet coke.... I always eat plenty of protein after a ride.
Parrot of Doom said:
I don't really have the ability to follow a strict regime. I have no set timetable with regard to work, and often have no control over what I'm able to eat. For example, last week I was in Leeds on Tuesday, Blackburn Wed/Thu, flew from Liverpool Friday afternoon, France sat/sun. Didn't get any cycling in whatsoever.
Really I'm just a bit confused that my weight doesn't appear to be dropping much, considering I don't eat any processed foods, sugar, crap, etc. Just meats, fish, veg, berries, dairy produce, diet coke.... I always eat plenty of protein after a ride.
Really I'm just a bit confused that my weight doesn't appear to be dropping much, considering I don't eat any processed foods, sugar, crap, etc. Just meats, fish, veg, berries, dairy produce, diet coke.... I always eat plenty of protein after a ride.
Eating plenty of protein after a ride will reduce any weight loss as the body uses the protein to build muscle where you've broken it down. If you definitely want to lose weight you need to ride more slowly for longer.
Well thats why I was doing it. My thinking being that by making my body stronger, I can ride for longer and harder, and that would make me fitter in the end?
Just as long as I'm burning fat in the long run, thats the important thing. I've always been strong, its just that the muscle is hidden under a layer of fat
Just as long as I'm burning fat in the long run, thats the important thing. I've always been strong, its just that the muscle is hidden under a layer of fat
Parrot of Doom said:
I don't really have the ability to follow a strict regime. I have no set timetable with regard to work, and often have no control over what I'm able to eat. For example, last week I was in Leeds on Tuesday, Blackburn Wed/Thu, flew from Liverpool Friday afternoon, France sat/sun. Didn't get any cycling in whatsoever.
Really I'm just a bit confused that my weight doesn't appear to be dropping much, considering I don't eat any processed foods, sugar, crap, etc. Just meats, fish, veg, berries, dairy produce, diet coke.... I always eat plenty of protein after a ride.
Really I'm just a bit confused that my weight doesn't appear to be dropping much, considering I don't eat any processed foods, sugar, crap, etc. Just meats, fish, veg, berries, dairy produce, diet coke.... I always eat plenty of protein after a ride.
The thing with Lances book, is you don't have to follow it to a t, but what does do is takes you through the 'science' it discusses eating smartly, riding more, it also takes you through low-gear downhills, granny-gear sprints, fixed gear riding - it's packed with the most incredible information even things like wind chill factor.
Anyway should you be interested www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1405099917/202-4051833-5591002?v=glance&n=266239&s=gateway&v=glance
Parrot of Doom said:
Well thats why I was doing it. My thinking being that by making my body stronger, I can ride for longer and harder, and that would make me fitter in the end?
Just as long as I'm burning fat in the long run, thats the important thing. I've always been strong, its just that the muscle is hidden under a layer of fat
Just as long as I'm burning fat in the long run, thats the important thing. I've always been strong, its just that the muscle is hidden under a layer of fat
Yes you'll be fitter, but not necessarily lighter, the two are not the same. It depends what your aims are - if you want to get fitter then you seem to be going the right way about it. If you want to get lighter, then you need to adjust your effort levels a bit.
IMO aiming for fitness is better than aiming for lightness
rico said:
If cycling isn't working, it might be worth running on alternative days. Cycling means most of your body weight is supported and you're just moving your legs for forward motion. When running you're supporting your whole body so more calories burnt.
Very true. [actinglikeanoldfartmodeon] back in my prime, i clocked up 80 miles a week running and i couldn’t keep the weight on. (I would get home and devour 10 eggs and 8 rounds of toast on an evening (obviously not every night)) It would get to the stage that i became too thin (if you know what i mean) and very much addicted to exercise. Also be careful if you jump straight over to running, with your weight on your joints.[actinglikeanoldfartmodeoff]
Don't have a comprehensive knowledge of all this, but I got the same impression, that fitter is not the same as thinner.
And since muscle burns more energy at rest than fat, you are able to eat more and burn it off without gaining weight. ie. you would be a lot heavier if you weren't exercising.
I like the idea of keeping the metabolic rate high all day. I gotta try that, as my weight hasn't gone down by much. Many thanks for that tip.
Also think I will buy that Lance Armstrong book.
And since muscle burns more energy at rest than fat, you are able to eat more and burn it off without gaining weight. ie. you would be a lot heavier if you weren't exercising.
I like the idea of keeping the metabolic rate high all day. I gotta try that, as my weight hasn't gone down by much. Many thanks for that tip.
Also think I will buy that Lance Armstrong book.
andirider said:
Ride a bit slower and go a bit further. Effort should be comfortable with conversation possible. The harder the effort, the more sugar and less fat you burn. Nothing wrong with this. Congratulations on gaining a very good level if fitness
True. Parrot, im not calling you a fatty-fatty bum bum, fitness has nothing to do with size.
I remember doing the Stratford 7k a few years back and wore a 'battered' hooded top to run in (looked like a shotgun had had a go at it) and large pot belly (basically a tramp) (i was into my drinking at that stage) and people did laugh at me.........UNTIL i happened to fly past them, with child.
I meant no offence, but have you ever thought about this? That you sometimes can’t 'actually' see what you look like? (Always wanting yourself to look better and never happy with where you are)
I think I'll need to buy a comfier saddle for longer trips Its probably what makes me want to head home more than anything else
I just don't want to end up like one of those 40-something blokes you see on a Friday night, big bright blue shirt covering a large belly, chuffing down a big kebab. I'm sure you know who I mean
Its probably what makes me want to head home more than anything else I just don't want to end up like one of those 40-something blokes you see on a Friday night, big bright blue shirt covering a large belly, chuffing down a big kebab. I'm sure you know who I mean
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