Suspension set up
Discussion
Over the last few years I've seen the light and transitioned from road to mtb, firstly with a Trek marlin hard tail and now a Spesh epic Evo.
Since getting the epic I've never quite been able to get the front suspension dialed in. I've followed the recommended settings for my weight but it's always felt quite chattery over rough stuff and when climbing steep stuff it feels like the front wheel has a tendency to bounce off rocks making it hard to control. I've had the forks serviced which made a slight difference but it still feels like the Trek climbed better on the steep technical stuff, despite having a much "worse" fork (rockshox Judy silver I think).
I've tried slowing up the rebound which helped a bit.
I don't know if it's just the geometry of the epic which makes it worse at climbing (slacker head angle?) or if the suspension isn't set up right?
One thing to complicate matters is that I'm a massive lanky b
d so the seat post is basically at the max and consequently I imagine my weight distribution is very rear biased compared to a normal height person. Probably this means when seated I should be running less sag, however this will mess things up when going downhill or out the saddle?
Hopefully that all makes sense, any ideas welcome!
Since getting the epic I've never quite been able to get the front suspension dialed in. I've followed the recommended settings for my weight but it's always felt quite chattery over rough stuff and when climbing steep stuff it feels like the front wheel has a tendency to bounce off rocks making it hard to control. I've had the forks serviced which made a slight difference but it still feels like the Trek climbed better on the steep technical stuff, despite having a much "worse" fork (rockshox Judy silver I think).
I've tried slowing up the rebound which helped a bit.
I don't know if it's just the geometry of the epic which makes it worse at climbing (slacker head angle?) or if the suspension isn't set up right?
One thing to complicate matters is that I'm a massive lanky b
d so the seat post is basically at the max and consequently I imagine my weight distribution is very rear biased compared to a normal height person. Probably this means when seated I should be running less sag, however this will mess things up when going downhill or out the saddle?Hopefully that all makes sense, any ideas welcome!
Not sure what fork you've got but I'd consider reducing the pressure in them slightly then sticking in some tokens to compensate.
I'm tallish at 6ft 2", run 240mm droppers and suffer similar problems climbing. I'm more downhill focused though as that's my background and so my bikes are all set-up with that being the focus so I accept they might climb a bit st.
I'm tallish at 6ft 2", run 240mm droppers and suffer similar problems climbing. I'm more downhill focused though as that's my background and so my bikes are all set-up with that being the focus so I accept they might climb a bit s
t. bobbo89 said:
Not sure what fork you've got but I'd consider reducing the pressure in them slightly then sticking in some tokens to compensate.
I'm tallish at 6ft 2", run 240mm droppers and suffer similar problems climbing. I'm more downhill focused though as that's my background and so my bikes are all set-up with that being the focus so I accept they might climb a bit st.
Thanks, they're RockShox Reba RL 120mm. I will look into adding a token as that sounds like it will help. I ride XC with a few tame trails thrown in (no big drops or jumps).I'm tallish at 6ft 2", run 240mm droppers and suffer similar problems climbing. I'm more downhill focused though as that's my background and so my bikes are all set-up with that being the focus so I accept they might climb a bit s
t. Tim Cognito said:
Thanks, they're RockShox Reba RL 120mm. I will look into adding a token as that sounds like it will help. I ride XC with a few tame trails thrown in (no big drops or jumps).
Tokens really do help when you're trying to fine tune and iron out those minor annoyances. One of my forks is a DVO Diamond which has an OTT (Off The Top) feature which is amazing for smoothing out niggles like this.
As others have said, worth experimenting with reducing the pressure in the fork a little, and then adding tokens/volume spacers if it is bottoming out too easily.
Also worth thinking about, what you described could also be caused by a higher than ideal tyre pressure - what pressures do you run?
Also worth thinking about, what you described could also be caused by a higher than ideal tyre pressure - what pressures do you run?
GravelBen said:
As others have said, worth experimenting with reducing the pressure in the fork a little, and then adding tokens/volume spacers if it is bottoming out too easily.
Also worth thinking about, what you described could also be caused by a higher than ideal tyre pressure - what pressures do you run?
Around 22psi I think. That's on a 2.25" tyre and I am 75kg.Also worth thinking about, what you described could also be caused by a higher than ideal tyre pressure - what pressures do you run?
I'd set the forks by sag rather than manufacturers recommendations.
I run a soft feeling fork, my mate are always hard. There's quite a weight difference between the the two of us 95 Vs 120kg but both 6"4.
Do you regularly use the majority of the travel on the harshest decent you ride? If not I'd reduce pressure.
I run about 25%
I run a soft feeling fork, my mate are always hard. There's quite a weight difference between the the two of us 95 Vs 120kg but both 6"4.
Do you regularly use the majority of the travel on the harshest decent you ride? If not I'd reduce pressure.
I run about 25%
Tim Cognito said:
GravelBen said:
As others have said, worth experimenting with reducing the pressure in the fork a little, and then adding tokens/volume spacers if it is bottoming out too easily.
Also worth thinking about, what you described could also be caused by a higher than ideal tyre pressure - what pressures do you run?
Around 22psi I think. That's on a 2.25" tyre and I am 75kg.Also worth thinking about, what you described could also be caused by a higher than ideal tyre pressure - what pressures do you run?
I generally run 19-21psi on the front of mine, 29x2.6" with trail casings but I'm 110kg+, too many pies and not enough biking.
Actually I'm also assuming you are running tubeless too, if you are tubed then you might not want to go much lower or you will increase risk of pinch flats.
Setting up suspension is a bit of a black art as you can’t just go off of rider weight to get the correct settings. Riding style, terrain, other riding kit & bike components (for sprung/unsprung ratio) will all effects how suspension works. Also the rigidity of components has a bit play on comfort but also when talking about forks it plays into how they work (a set of 32’s will flex and bind more than a set of 36/38 forks). A suspension set up is always a compromise game as you will never get a set up that works brilliant in every scenario.
What sort of riding do you do and location?
What sort of riding do you do and location?
Edited by mattvanders on Tuesday 15th October 15:32
GravelBen said:
Probably not a mile off but try experimenting with a bit lower and see how it feels - it can depend a bit on the rim width and the tyre casing as well (I'm guessing relatively narrow rim and XC casing on an Epic) so I'd try dropping maybe 0.5psi at a time and see how it feels.
I generally run 19-21psi on the front of mine, 29x2.6" with trail casings but I'm 110kg+, too many pies and not enough biking.
Actually I'm also assuming you are running tubeless too, if you are tubed then you might not want to go much lower or you will increase risk of pinch flats.
28mm internal width rims. Yes running tubeless. I can go lower on the pressure to compensate but it doesn't suit the terrain I ride on so makes it a bit of a slog. Definitely feels like the root cause is in the suspension set up, so would rather try and address that rather than running lower pressures.I generally run 19-21psi on the front of mine, 29x2.6" with trail casings but I'm 110kg+, too many pies and not enough biking.
Actually I'm also assuming you are running tubeless too, if you are tubed then you might not want to go much lower or you will increase risk of pinch flats.
dave123456 said:
I’d consider looking at your bike fit then setting suspension by sag, then adding volume tokens if required.
At your height that bike will feel different to it’s predecessor, ultimately it will affect the handling but a slightly longer stem may help.
What size bike are you riding?
XL frame, maxxed out. If XXL existed I would probably be on it. From memory I think the recommended sag was 25%, I am probably running more like 27% currently to try and get some of that small bump sensitivity back.At your height that bike will feel different to it’s predecessor, ultimately it will affect the handling but a slightly longer stem may help.
What size bike are you riding?
You just need more rebound damping. Don't worry about sag or small bump stuff too much, you won't get anywhere near that level of tune on those forks and your description of your riding doesn't need it either. If you can't slow it down enough you could run lower pressure, it might feel better like that, or you might be at the limit of the forks capabilities.
My starting point is to run it down some steps and set the rebound so that the forks are springing back up fully between impacts, then leave it unless you ride somewhere where you feel like impacts on the descents are kicking back too hard. Honestly though the only time I've really needed to adjust the forks is in the Alps where you basically need to tune for the frequency of their braking bumps and suck it up everywhere else.
My starting point is to run it down some steps and set the rebound so that the forks are springing back up fully between impacts, then leave it unless you ride somewhere where you feel like impacts on the descents are kicking back too hard. Honestly though the only time I've really needed to adjust the forks is in the Alps where you basically need to tune for the frequency of their braking bumps and suck it up everywhere else.
I can't help thinking this has nothing to do with your suspension and everything to do with your own weight distribution on the bike?
Reading between the lines, you are sitting right back over the rear wheel?
This would be OK on older style short top tube/long stem geometry, but won't really work on a "super-long" bike with long top tube/short stem.
These bikes automatically place your weight further back, and it's a good thing, but you then MUST actively move your weight forward when braking/cornering/climbing to get the front-end loaded up.
You could try to get your throat down over the stem and sit more on the nose of the saddle when climbing.
A longer stem might make a small improvement, but you then lose the advantages of the "super-longs" and moving your body weight will still have a greater effect.
Reading between the lines, you are sitting right back over the rear wheel?
This would be OK on older style short top tube/long stem geometry, but won't really work on a "super-long" bike with long top tube/short stem.
These bikes automatically place your weight further back, and it's a good thing, but you then MUST actively move your weight forward when braking/cornering/climbing to get the front-end loaded up.
You could try to get your throat down over the stem and sit more on the nose of the saddle when climbing.
A longer stem might make a small improvement, but you then lose the advantages of the "super-longs" and moving your body weight will still have a greater effect.
BOR said:
I can't help thinking this has nothing to do with your suspension and everything to do with your own weight distribution on the bike?
Reading between the lines, you are sitting right back over the rear wheel?
This would be OK on older style short top tube/long stem geometry, but won't really work on a "super-long" bike with long top tube/short stem.
These bikes automatically place your weight further back, and it's a good thing, but you then MUST actively move your weight forward when braking/cornering/climbing to get the front-end loaded up.
You could try to get your throat down over the stem and sit more on the nose of the saddle when climbing.
A longer stem might make a small improvement, but you then lose the advantages of the "super-longs" and moving your body weight will still have a greater effect.
Yes very much rear weight balance due to ridiculously high saddle. This isn't my bike but add some more seat post and you're almost there.Reading between the lines, you are sitting right back over the rear wheel?
This would be OK on older style short top tube/long stem geometry, but won't really work on a "super-long" bike with long top tube/short stem.
These bikes automatically place your weight further back, and it's a good thing, but you then MUST actively move your weight forward when braking/cornering/climbing to get the front-end loaded up.
You could try to get your throat down over the stem and sit more on the nose of the saddle when climbing.
A longer stem might make a small improvement, but you then lose the advantages of the "super-longs" and moving your body weight will still have a greater effect.
My previous Trek was reasonably modern, but the 2021 Epic Evo is definitely longer and slacker. I am used to having to get the weight forward just to keep the front wheel on the ground but maybe as you say I need to think about my position even more with modern geometry.
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