Shifting issues

[Random84]

I have a 2013 Cube Peloton that I use as a Zwift bike with a smart trainer, it had a 9 speed Sora groupset and the rear shifting wasn't great but it worked well enough for me on Zwift ( Difficult persuading it to shift down some gears cleanly and it wouldn't always shift to the smallest rear cog but it would if I shifted down quickly).

I decided to upgrade the groupset to 11 speed so I have a 105 groupset that I have taken off another bike (It was shifting fine on the other bike) however now I have installed the groupset I just can't seem to get the shifting right! The shifting issues appear to be the similar to the issues I had with the old 9 speed groupset:

It will go up the rear gears fine but when I come down the rear it will shift down the first two gears fine, the next 2 or 3 gears won't shift cleanly or the derailleur moves but the gear doesn't shift at all. If I get a run up and shift all the way down in one go it will go past the 2 or 3 gears thet it wouldn't go past individually previously.

I've tried the following:

Set the higher/lower limits and it never throws the chain over the top/off the bottom.

Adjusted the barrel adjuster to get the correct tension, if I adjust it to go down all the gears correctly it then struggles to go up correctly.

Tried adjusting the B limit screw and it made the situation slightly worse when going to one extreme and slightly better going to the other extreme but it still wasn't right.

It's a 2013 bike and it's done around 12000 miles and never had the derailleur hanger replaced, it's never been dropped and to my knowledge I haven't knocked the derailleur out of alignment.

I did take it to a local bike mechanic when it had the 9 speed groupset and he mentioned the hangwr could be the issue, he checked the alignment with a tool and mentioned it wasn't massively out of alignment but it did bend back relatively easy.

Is the hanger likely to be the cause of the issues I'm experiencing? Can anyone recommend a good place to get a replacement hanger that isn't made of cheese?

[OutInTheShed]

Could be your 11 speed rear shifter is shagged, wear in any of the pivots will result in backlash, so where it shifts to is no longer precise?
Any slack in the lay-on cog's bearing won't help.
All the play accumulates, give in cables, play in bearings, wear in the free hub, every component really.

11 speed is not blacksmith technology suitabe for abuse in the 3rd world, it's high maintenance precision stuff if you want it to work well, that's why they still make 7 speed for artisans to ride to work on.

[Robertb]

How old are the cables and outers?

Is the RD moving absolutely freely with cable disconnected?

Is the shifter clicking into position properly? You can check by pulling on the cable as you click the shifter and feel the cable move out a notch each time.

Yes, misaligned hanger will cause issues, if it’s now straightened though it should be ok.

I also recommend reading the official Shimano instructions for indexing the RD.

This is the best video I know on indexing…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=621wu4-SXUs&pp=y...

[Mars]

Random84 said:

It's a 2013 bike and it's done around 12000 miles and never had the derailleur hanger replaced, it's never been dropped and to my knowledge I haven't knocked the derailleur out of alignment.

I did take it to a local bike mechanic when it had the 9 speed groupset and he mentioned the hangwr could be the issue, he checked the alignment with a tool and mentioned it wasn't massively out of alignment but it did bend back relatively easy.

Is the hanger likely to be the cause of the issues I'm experiencing? Can anyone recommend a good place to get a replacement hanger that isn't made of cheese?

A new one is just as likely to be "out" as an old one. They are made from soft aluminium by design therefore bend if knocked. Given the trouble your having, I'd check that before doing anything else. No need to buy a new one unless the old one snaps.

Find someone with a hanger straightener - probably not many people have them. I do - I'm in Worcestershire. If you're local, pop-in.

[Random84]

Luckily I had an opportunity to check the 11 speed groupset on the other bike before I removed everything and it was working fine. The bike they came off has had very little use so it's relatively new (less than 1500 miles), especially compared to the groupset it's replacing!

I can shift without the derailleur connected by pulling on the cable and the "clicks" feel positive.

Cable inners and outers are new

Hanger was last checked about 9 months ago and the mechanic didn't think it was massively out, he did say when he adjusted it that the hanger bent very easily.

Edited by Random84 on Sunday 15th September 21:57

[Mars]

9 months ago or "yesterday" doesn't matter. Time doesn't bend the hanger, a single knock does.

[Random84]

Mars said:

Random84 said:

It's a 2013 bike and it's done around 12000 miles and never had the derailleur hanger replaced, it's never been dropped and to my knowledge I haven't knocked the derailleur out of alignment.

I did take it to a local bike mechanic when it had the 9 speed groupset and he mentioned the hangwr could be the issue, he checked the alignment with a tool and mentioned it wasn't massively out of alignment but it did bend back relatively easy.

Is the hanger likely to be the cause of the issues I'm experiencing? Can anyone recommend a good place to get a replacement hanger that isn't made of cheese?

A new one is just as likely to be "out" as an old one. They are made from soft aluminium by design therefore bend if knocked. Given the trouble your having, I'd check that before doing anything else. No need to buy a new one unless the old one snaps.

Find someone with a hanger straightener - probably not many people have them. I do - I'm in Worcestershire. If you're local, pop-in.

Thanks for the offer, unfortunately I'm about 3 hours away from you but I'm bidding on one on eBay as I type this!

I've got a feeling it's got to be the alignment, either the hanger is still bent or maybe it's flexing as the gears try to change? (Not sure if that's even possible?)

[stargazer30]

Probably not your issue but I spent months trying to get my rival 11 speed gears to shift properly. They just kept going out, rattling, then would jump two sprockets. I tried literally everything. In the end it turned out I’d fitted a brake cable by accident for the shifter cable!

Personally for your prob I’d just buy a 2nd hand zwift play and use the virtual gears if your smart trainer is compatible, they are much better.

[frisbee]

Could be worn pulley wheels. I had a top one that wobbled and the shifting was terrible.

[Random84]

The only thing bugging me is that I had almost the same issue with the old 9 speed groupset, something that's remained on the bike isn't quite right.

I've now replaced the groupset, inner/outer cables etc. the only gear train related parts that have stayed on the bike are the bottom bracket and derailleur hanger!

[klootzak]

Do you have a/the correct spacer between cassette and freehub?

I have a vague memory of putting a 10-speed wheel onto a bike equipped with 9-speed (swapped the cassette over obv.) and the shifting was all over the place until I put the correct spacer in. This was a very long time ago though, so I could have that wrong.

k