GP5000 TR issues
Discussion
I have changed my Pirelli P Zeros over today and am having problems setting up the GP 5000's.
Initially the issue was the tyres would not pump up at all on one of the wheels. The other was fine. No difference in technique to the P Zeros but the track pump wouldn't get any air into it and I had to go to a local mechanic who ended up using a compressor.
Then once both wheels were sorted, the rear is not holding air. There is not even any sealant in yet, I was just testing the seal. Goes from 100 PSI to 40 PSI in 60 minutes. I didn't want to keep it at 100 but just wanted to test it as I KNEW there was going to be an issue. I ended up taking the tyre off to check the rim tape in the one that won't hold, and now once again, I can't re-inflate it as I can't any air into the tyre like I had with the other one. I never needed anything other than a track pump before, so I don't understand what all the issues are.
Its really stressing me out, it just makes no sense, the rims, tape and valves are all new and as it should be.
Is this a GP5000 thing or just the joys of tubeless?
Initially the issue was the tyres would not pump up at all on one of the wheels. The other was fine. No difference in technique to the P Zeros but the track pump wouldn't get any air into it and I had to go to a local mechanic who ended up using a compressor.
Then once both wheels were sorted, the rear is not holding air. There is not even any sealant in yet, I was just testing the seal. Goes from 100 PSI to 40 PSI in 60 minutes. I didn't want to keep it at 100 but just wanted to test it as I KNEW there was going to be an issue. I ended up taking the tyre off to check the rim tape in the one that won't hold, and now once again, I can't re-inflate it as I can't any air into the tyre like I had with the other one. I never needed anything other than a track pump before, so I don't understand what all the issues are.
Its really stressing me out, it just makes no sense, the rims, tape and valves are all new and as it should be.
Is this a GP5000 thing or just the joys of tubeless?
A few tricks I learnt when I was using tubeless on the road, I’ve since reverted to tubes:
- first install of tyres can be tricky if they come folded. Remove from packaging and hang up with and over size (such as 40mm) inner tube in them inflated to a few psi so they keep a round shape.
- make sure the bead on the rim is completely clear of old sealant.
- if trying to pump up without a compressor or pump with a cylinder, put an inner tube (without air) around the outside of the tyre as you are pumping and pump like mad for a few seconds.
- some tyres need big pressure to get them to pop, spin the wheel to see if it has seated properly. If one bit won’t pop let all the air out and put some soapy water between the tyre and the rim and try again.
Good luck! It wasn’t the setup that put me off, it was the sealant drying to the tyre over 4-6months and needing hours of cleaning to get rid.
- first install of tyres can be tricky if they come folded. Remove from packaging and hang up with and over size (such as 40mm) inner tube in them inflated to a few psi so they keep a round shape.
- make sure the bead on the rim is completely clear of old sealant.
- if trying to pump up without a compressor or pump with a cylinder, put an inner tube (without air) around the outside of the tyre as you are pumping and pump like mad for a few seconds.
- some tyres need big pressure to get them to pop, spin the wheel to see if it has seated properly. If one bit won’t pop let all the air out and put some soapy water between the tyre and the rim and try again.
Good luck! It wasn’t the setup that put me off, it was the sealant drying to the tyre over 4-6months and needing hours of cleaning to get rid.
I can get Hutchinson Fusion5 tyres to seat on my carbon rims with just an ancient track pump but without sealant they will go flat overnight. Seating is part of the rim / tyre lottery though - some you win, some you lose.
Interesting comment above about cleaning off old sealant as that is something I've never bothered doing. I just add around 30ml of fresh sealant every 3 months or so with syringe having taken the valve out.
Interesting comment above about cleaning off old sealant as that is something I've never bothered doing. I just add around 30ml of fresh sealant every 3 months or so with syringe having taken the valve out.
Sounds like an issue with the valve if you can't get air in the tyre. Try removing the valve core to ensure that its not gunked up with sealant.
One thing I do is inflate the tyre with the valve core removed with my 'Tubi booster' ... this gets the tyre mounted on the bead correctly. I then insert sealent and the valve core before inflating with the Tubi booster .... then onto the track pump.
One thing I do is inflate the tyre with the valve core removed with my 'Tubi booster' ... this gets the tyre mounted on the bead correctly. I then insert sealent and the valve core before inflating with the Tubi booster .... then onto the track pump.
CO2 has seated the tyre well, so thats that issue solved and I will buy a airshot or similar to above.
But the rear is still going from 110PSI to flat in 15 mins. For no reason at all. I have checked everything but it wont hold. Going to add sealant now but I now and re-pump but I know it wont hold.
With the valve core remover, why is it that when you turn it in either direction, the valve still gets loose? i/e you tighten it but if you keep tightening it in the same direction it goes loose again?
But the rear is still going from 110PSI to flat in 15 mins. For no reason at all. I have checked everything but it wont hold. Going to add sealant now but I now and re-pump but I know it wont hold.
With the valve core remover, why is it that when you turn it in either direction, the valve still gets loose? i/e you tighten it but if you keep tightening it in the same direction it goes loose again?
Random_Person said:
CO2 has seated the tyre well, so thats that issue solved and I will buy a airshot or similar to above.
But the rear is still going from 110PSI to flat in 15 mins. For no reason at all. I have checked everything but it wont hold. Going to add sealant now but I now and re-pump but I know it wont hold.
With the valve core remover, why is it that when you turn it in either direction, the valve still gets loose? i/e you tighten it but if you keep tightening it in the same direction it goes loose again?
If the valve isn't the issue, losing pressure without sealant is not a problem. Tyre and wheel combo's work differently together ... I have had tyres that don't lose pressure without sealant and tyres that require sealant and immediate 'bouncing and spinning' once inflated to ensure that they seal correctly.But the rear is still going from 110PSI to flat in 15 mins. For no reason at all. I have checked everything but it wont hold. Going to add sealant now but I now and re-pump but I know it wont hold.
With the valve core remover, why is it that when you turn it in either direction, the valve still gets loose? i/e you tighten it but if you keep tightening it in the same direction it goes loose again?
I've just chucked in sealant and ridden them a mile. Will wait and see. Shop beckons.
I never even wanted tubeless, I ordered new wheels via my LBS and it was never discussed, of course naturally they were tubeless. They are fine for a few months at a time once setup but the issues come when 1) they puncture or 2) tyre changes. I can do tubes / tyres in minutes - tubeless takes around 24 hours and a trip to a shop. Its utterly ridiculous.
Seeing as I paid out for new wheels I am going to have to suck it up, but I am never buying tubeless again. Interesting that the riders on here all say tubeless is great, however riders and shop mechanics I speak to all generally say the opposite.
I never even wanted tubeless, I ordered new wheels via my LBS and it was never discussed, of course naturally they were tubeless. They are fine for a few months at a time once setup but the issues come when 1) they puncture or 2) tyre changes. I can do tubes / tyres in minutes - tubeless takes around 24 hours and a trip to a shop. Its utterly ridiculous.
Seeing as I paid out for new wheels I am going to have to suck it up, but I am never buying tubeless again. Interesting that the riders on here all say tubeless is great, however riders and shop mechanics I speak to all generally say the opposite.
Random_Person said:
With the valve core remover, why is it that when you turn it in either direction, the valve still gets loose? i/e you tighten it but if you keep tightening it in the same direction it goes loose again?
Your valve is buggered if that’s happening. FWIW, my GP5000 S TR went onto Shimano C50 wheels by hand, and sealed with just a normal track pump and no sealant. In my experience, it’s all about finding a good combination of tyre and wheel. For instance, I won’t buy hookless rims, as they rely on a very accurately made tyre so that it seals on the rim bed. Hooked rims are a bit more forgiving, and IMO, safer too.
Random_Person said:
I never even wanted tubeless, I ordered new wheels via my LBS and it was never discussed, of course naturally they were tubeless.
Nothing stopping you running them with tubes. CheesecakeRunner said:
Random_Person said:
I never even wanted tubeless, I ordered new wheels via my LBS and it was never discussed, of course naturally they were tubeless.
Nothing stopping you running them with tubes. I find it always takes a few days for new tubeless tyres to 'settle' and properly seal. Normally it might mean loosening off and re-tightening the valve whilst ensuring there is a bit of sealant around it, or popping the tyres completely off into the middle of the rim to get a bit of sealant along the bead. Having an air shot or similar definitely helps though!
Edited by addey on Tuesday 11th June 10:45
I would never get tubes in - no way. The gap is absolutely tiny - wuld barely fit a little finger in there.
However -
I put some sealant in the one that kept deflating, span it, rode it, left it. After a bit of time it seemed ok so I put a load more air in the tyre and rode it again - and haven ow left it again. It is not deflating as it had been, but I need time to trust it and work out whats going on. I don't see why one of them went on with no issues and held perfectly without sealant, and the other was the complete opposite. But, if that's all part of the experience then so be it.
I will be able to report back this eve or tmrw - if I have solved it then I have performed a miracle as I have had no outside help.
However -
I put some sealant in the one that kept deflating, span it, rode it, left it. After a bit of time it seemed ok so I put a load more air in the tyre and rode it again - and haven ow left it again. It is not deflating as it had been, but I need time to trust it and work out whats going on. I don't see why one of them went on with no issues and held perfectly without sealant, and the other was the complete opposite. But, if that's all part of the experience then so be it.
I will be able to report back this eve or tmrw - if I have solved it then I have performed a miracle as I have had no outside help.
Have you tried to determine where the air is coming from? The old school trick of inflating an inner tube and putting it in the sink to find a puncture works just as well with tubeless. Inflate, put part of the wheel and tyre in the bath until you find where the air is coming from. It might be the bead, in which case reseat using a bit of sealant as lube, or add another wrap of tubeless tape to increase the diameter of the wheel and get a tighter fit. It might be the rim itself, in which case re-tape it. Or as mentioned above, it could be the valve - which we already think you should replace. Sealant is really only going to work if it’s the tyre itself, it doesn’t usually help with rim issues.
As the rims are fairly new and the valves are brand new out the packet I suspected it was purely the tyre. I have had a a spin and listen but no air audible, and once sealant in also no sealant visible anywhere.
Will monitor and update - might have been just one of those things. But one thing is a consistent - its always hard work and problematic undergoing this process!
Will monitor and update - might have been just one of those things. But one thing is a consistent - its always hard work and problematic undergoing this process!
Random_Person said:
I would never get tubes in - no way. The gap is absolutely tiny - wuld barely fit a little finger in there.
You might have to explain that one! Ultimately, they are pretty much the same tyres as the non tubeless ones as far as putting on/off rim etc. (some take a bit more to get off the rim as tight but once off the half the tyre is off the rim so putting new inner tube in is the same as any other tyre.So, not sure what "tiny gap" you are referring to! Just pull tyre off rim using tyre levers etc. as you would any other tyre.
Dracoro said:
Random_Person said:
I would never get tubes in - no way. The gap is absolutely tiny - wuld barely fit a little finger in there.
You might have to explain that one! Ultimately, they are pretty much the same tyres as the non tubeless ones as far as putting on/off rim etc. (some take a bit more to get off the rim as tight but once off the half the tyre is off the rim so putting new inner tube in is the same as any other tyre.So, not sure what "tiny gap" you are referring to! Just pull tyre off rim using tyre levers etc. as you would any other tyre.
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