More Sad News - Cyclist KIlled
Discussion
This one is a bit personal as it is a road I ride several times a week. A 56 year old cyclist killed in collision with a lorry
Little details about what happened. Looks like a junction accident going by the yellow markers on the road. At 08:10 it would have been heavy traffic both ways. Possibly the lorry turning left or right off the main road.
It isn't obvious in the picture but the side road is between the yellow markers and the cop on the right hand side.
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/12318953/cyc...
Little details about what happened. Looks like a junction accident going by the yellow markers on the road. At 08:10 it would have been heavy traffic both ways. Possibly the lorry turning left or right off the main road.
It isn't obvious in the picture but the side road is between the yellow markers and the cop on the right hand side.
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/12318953/cyc...
Horrific news, but sadly an accepted reality for anyone who commutes on a pedal bike 
.
Does news like this make you wonder if its worth the 'risk' commuting on the pedal bike?
I do think about this every few months, my concerns aren't really for me, as getting wipped out by a HGV seems like as good way to go as any other - death is guaranteed for all of us in some way. But it's an incredibly selfish act to leave the rest of my family without a husband/dad just because I choose to cycle to work rather than drive.
Driving ultimately is what makes more sense, but compared to the pedal bike driving its so dull/non engaging and a general waste of time. Be selfish and cycle or take my family responsibilities seriously and drive to work.....You can put your head in the sand and pretend not to think about it, but that's just denial and leaving it to fate, I rather pretend I have control over my own actions.
I'm taking the car today.
.Does news like this make you wonder if its worth the 'risk' commuting on the pedal bike?
I do think about this every few months, my concerns aren't really for me, as getting wipped out by a HGV seems like as good way to go as any other - death is guaranteed for all of us in some way. But it's an incredibly selfish act to leave the rest of my family without a husband/dad just because I choose to cycle to work rather than drive.
Driving ultimately is what makes more sense, but compared to the pedal bike driving its so dull/non engaging and a general waste of time. Be selfish and cycle or take my family responsibilities seriously and drive to work.....You can put your head in the sand and pretend not to think about it, but that's just denial and leaving it to fate, I rather pretend I have control over my own actions.
I'm taking the car today.
Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 21st March 06:34
gangzoom said:
Horrific news, but sadly an accepted reality for anyone who commutes on a pedal bike .
Does news like this make you wonder if its worth the 'risk' commuting on the pedal bike?
Not really..Does news like this make you wonder if its worth the 'risk' commuting on the pedal bike?
Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 21st March 06:34
It's also curious to note that this was a woman killed. For some reason it's mainly women cyclists who are killed by lorries, by quite a large margin.
QJumper said:
gangzoom said:
Horrific news, but sadly an accepted reality for anyone who commutes on a pedal bike .
Does news like this make you wonder if its worth the 'risk' commuting on the pedal bike?
Not really..Does news like this make you wonder if its worth the 'risk' commuting on the pedal bike?
Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 21st March 06:34
It's also curious to note that this was a woman killed. For some reason it's mainly women cyclists who are killed by lorries, by quite a large margin.
For myself no, I agree that it won't stop me from commuting by bike. I find that it is a bit irrelevant anyway, it depends on which roads each of us takes, bow busy, how many cycle paths are available for our commute, etc.
QJumper said:
gangzoom said:
Horrific news, but sadly an accepted reality for anyone who commutes on a pedal bike .
Does news like this make you wonder if its worth the 'risk' commuting on the pedal bike?
Not really..Does news like this make you wonder if its worth the 'risk' commuting on the pedal bike?
Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 21st March 06:34
It's also curious to note that this was a woman killed. For some reason it's mainly women cyclists who are killed by lorries, by quite a large margin.
Poor woman.
Siao said:
Do you have any information on this claim?
For myself no, I agree that it won't stop me from commuting by bike. I find that it is a bit irrelevant anyway, it depends on which roads each of us takes, bow busy, how many cycle paths are available for our commute, etc.
SureFor myself no, I agree that it won't stop me from commuting by bike. I find that it is a bit irrelevant anyway, it depends on which roads each of us takes, bow busy, how many cycle paths are available for our commute, etc.
https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/w...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/may/21/women-c...
https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/real-life/wearing-c...
https://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/all-the-hallmarks-...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/women-cyclists-...
QJumper said:
Siao said:
Do you have any information on this claim?
For myself no, I agree that it won't stop me from commuting by bike. I find that it is a bit irrelevant anyway, it depends on which roads each of us takes, bow busy, how many cycle paths are available for our commute, etc.
SureFor myself no, I agree that it won't stop me from commuting by bike. I find that it is a bit irrelevant anyway, it depends on which roads each of us takes, bow busy, how many cycle paths are available for our commute, etc.
https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/w...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/may/21/women-c...
https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/real-life/wearing-c...
https://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/all-the-hallmarks-...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/women-cyclists-...
Regards the above HGV killing female cyclists. News today in Glasgow that an HGV driver who turned left at lights and kicked a female cyclist was convicted of causing death by careless driving. Community service and 12 month ban.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-wes...
"CCTV shown to the court revealed that the lorry and a bus had both crossed a cycle space line at the junction.
As the lorry turned into the Broomielaw, its bumper caught the pannier rack of Ms Burke Newman's bike, causing her to fall.
Crash investigators found she had put herself in a vulnerable position due to her proximity to the lorry, but the driver would have ben able to see her had he checked the blind spot behind his reversing camera screen"
Lesson here. If buses or HGVs are blocking the cycle box either wait behind them or if safe go through the red light to get a safe distance in front of them.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-wes...
"CCTV shown to the court revealed that the lorry and a bus had both crossed a cycle space line at the junction.
As the lorry turned into the Broomielaw, its bumper caught the pannier rack of Ms Burke Newman's bike, causing her to fall.
Crash investigators found she had put herself in a vulnerable position due to her proximity to the lorry, but the driver would have ben able to see her had he checked the blind spot behind his reversing camera screen"
Lesson here. If buses or HGVs are blocking the cycle box either wait behind them or if safe go through the red light to get a safe distance in front of them.
QJumper said:
Sure
https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/w...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/may/21/women-c...
https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/real-life/wearing-c...
https://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/all-the-hallmarks-...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/women-cyclists-...
Haven't seen that. https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/w...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/may/21/women-c...
https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/real-life/wearing-c...
https://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/all-the-hallmarks-...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/women-cyclists-...
I ended up cycling today, just more fun than sitting in traffic in a car.
gangzoom said:
Haven't seen that.
I ended up cycling today, just more fun than sitting in traffic in a car.
I cycle most days, and have to say that I try never to put myself on the inside of a lorry. At traffics lights I'll always try to get in front if there's room, and if not I'll wait behind and let them go first.I ended up cycling today, just more fun than sitting in traffic in a car.
I know that people moan about cyclists jumping lights but, when driving, I often prefer it if they go a bit early and get moving, rather than waiting for them to stabilise and get out of the way.
irc said:
Regards the above HGV killing female cyclists. News today in Glasgow that an HGV driver who turned left at lights and kicked a female cyclist was convicted of causing death by careless driving. Community service and 12 month ban.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-wes...
"CCTV shown to the court revealed that the lorry and a bus had both crossed a cycle space line at the junction.
As the lorry turned into the Broomielaw, its bumper caught the pannier rack of Ms Burke Newman's bike, causing her to fall.
Crash investigators found she had put herself in a vulnerable position due to her proximity to the lorry, but the driver would have ben able to see her had he checked the blind spot behind his reversing camera screen"
Lesson here. If buses or HGVs are blocking the cycle box either wait behind them or if safe go through the red light to get a safe distance in front of them.
Woman + HGV + City Centre + Left turn + near side filtering.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-wes...
"CCTV shown to the court revealed that the lorry and a bus had both crossed a cycle space line at the junction.
As the lorry turned into the Broomielaw, its bumper caught the pannier rack of Ms Burke Newman's bike, causing her to fall.
Crash investigators found she had put herself in a vulnerable position due to her proximity to the lorry, but the driver would have ben able to see her had he checked the blind spot behind his reversing camera screen"
Lesson here. If buses or HGVs are blocking the cycle box either wait behind them or if safe go through the red light to get a safe distance in front of them.
It’s so depressingly predictable.
When I lived in London I almost became a stat. Bendy bus decided to turn left (I went from being ahead already to alongside to watching the sides get close so that I threw myself onto the kerb just in time.
It happens so quick that I imagine most people- all they manage is mouth open, wtf then it's all over.
That was my reaction but I bodily threw myself sideways.
It happens so quick that I imagine most people- all they manage is mouth open, wtf then it's all over.
That was my reaction but I bodily threw myself sideways.
Statistically two cyclists are killed on the roads in the UK every week.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-...
I am sorry, but it is a regular occurrence.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-...
I am sorry, but it is a regular occurrence.
The results of every accident like this are tragic, and I wonder if more could be done to educate others about those accidents. I appreciate not all detilails are known straight away, court cases have to conclude etc and privacy for those affected is required.
In my industry, every serious safety incident or death is investigated and the full investigations published, shared, form the basis of training courses and sometimes tv programmes. The sole purpose is to prevent reoccurrence.
As a cyclist that occasionally commutes to central London I would really welcome more information so I can try and prevent similar future events. I think all road users would benifit.
In my industry, every serious safety incident or death is investigated and the full investigations published, shared, form the basis of training courses and sometimes tv programmes. The sole purpose is to prevent reoccurrence.
As a cyclist that occasionally commutes to central London I would really welcome more information so I can try and prevent similar future events. I think all road users would benifit.
cml24 said:
As a cyclist that occasionally commutes to central London I would really welcome more information so I can try and prevent similar future events. I think all road users would benifit.
I don’t know what happened in this particular case but a depressingly common scenario is a cyclist getting left hooked by a turning HGV at a junction. Two issues I think - the vehicle’s massive blind spots and inadequate cycling infrastructure (painted bike lanes in the gutter and advance stop lanes) directing the cyclist right into those blind spots.
This TFL video highlights the issue perfectly. Of course an experienced cyclist will give an HGV a very wide berth but some may stick to the painted infrastructure assuming it is the “right” thing to do…
https://youtu.be/wzL0Kyk4m-8?si=6yXTKLu-Dc7ltfwo
ETA there are a wealth of useful articles on the Cyclescheme website, this one in particular
https://www.cyclescheme.co.uk/community/how-to/roa...
And lots of sensible advice here
https://www.cyclescheme.co.uk/community/how-to
Edited by funinhounslow on Sunday 24th March 09:37
cml24 said:
The results of every accident like this are tragic, and I wonder if more could be done to educate others about those accidents. I appreciate not all detilails are known straight away, court cases have to conclude etc and privacy for those affected is required.
In my industry, every serious safety incident or death is investigated and the full investigations published, shared, form the basis of training courses and sometimes tv programmes. The sole purpose is to prevent reoccurrence.
As a cyclist that occasionally commutes to central London I would really welcome more information so I can try and prevent similar future events. I think all road users would benifit.
Keep learning. Anticipate what other road users might do. This book is quite good.In my industry, every serious safety incident or death is investigated and the full investigations published, shared, form the basis of training courses and sometimes tv programmes. The sole purpose is to prevent reoccurrence.
As a cyclist that occasionally commutes to central London I would really welcome more information so I can try and prevent similar future events. I think all road users would benifit.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/City-Cycling-Snowbooks-Ri...
"In my industry, every serious safety incident or death is investigated and the full investigations published, shared, form the basis of training courses and sometimes tv programmes. The sole purpose is to prevent reoccurrence."
Any time I read about a bike crash I ask myself how could I have avoided that one. Usually there is a way. Route choice. If you were somewhere else on a safer road - towpath, low traffic side street - you can't be hit if you aren't there.
Watch where you are going. Don't hit potholes, gravel, avoid metal street furniture - slippery when wet. Don't ride in the doorzone.
Don't start passing HGVs or buses unless your exit is clear. Don't filter past them at junctions unless they are stopped and you know you have time to get past before the light goes green.
Use a mirror. Helps to know what is coming. confirm it's clear with a shoulder check before lane changes or turns. Shoulder checks also signal to drivers you are going to be changing direction. I once had to ride off the road to avoid being hit by an overtaking camper van. I saw it coming in my mirror.
At night have two lights back and front. Cheap lights cost buttons. Being seen sooner helps.
Don't ride at the kerb. Riding where a car's nearside tyre would be lets you swerve inside any potholes you se at the last minute. Avoids kerbside drains. Gives you space to move away from close overtakes. There is less crap to cause punctures away from the kerb.
Sorry if much of the above is stating the obvious. Touch would I have never had a cycling crash needing any medical attention but seperating how much is luck and how much is good practice and concentration isn't easy.
I haven' t done the high mileage many club cyclist do either though I have done a few tens of thousands commuting and touring.
irc said:
Touch would I have never had a cycling crash needing any medical attention but seperating how much is luck.. .
Hope your luck stays, I was overtaken when taking my daughter to swimming in the car by a modded Clio that seemed pretty out of control doing must be close to triple digit figures in a 40 zone.It takes 1 second for a car driver to be distracted, driving badly, etc and any of us who choose to use pedal bikes on the road will end up like the squashed foxes, badger, pigeon etc we see littering the roads.
The problem is I enjoy cycling too much, and cannot resist taking the bike out. Personally I much perfered cycling these days to driving, I think the only way I can wean my self off is to sell the bikes....
Its tragic when these things happen and I would think a lot or all the time it is avoidable one way or another. I used to cycle from nw London to South of Heathrow including the perimeter road. Pollution was a big part of the reason for me stopping, sitting in diesel traffic at the end of the runway finished it for me. I never accepted the risk of being killed but like all of us I expect, I have had enough run ins and really it probably was a matter of time till something bad happened.
I had read previously that (now this was a time ago so I may well have facts wrong) most of the deaths in London were from vehicles turning left and hitting crushing the biker who was on the left.
Really if that is the case it will come down to education and positioning. I would expect all of us have done idiotic things, and I did do that up the inside myself when I was younger and I learnt very quickly.
I hired a professional to do my commute with me and I learnt a lot about positioning and holding the road among a host of things, it was so helpful. If you're doing some commuting or cycling at busy times you have to... Live and breathe it. You can't just hop on a bike and cycle. You will end up on dual carriageways and in all sorts of situations which can be legal but there are many roads I just wouldn't ever go on. I'd take a longer quieter route. Although sometimes you encounter gangs on them which brings othe issues.
I really miss commuting by bike though, I had no issue jumping out of bed when it was cold. I thrived on it!
I had quite a few contacts, being squeezed by coaches overtaking too close blah blah blah. I only ever came off once and that was my own fault on works property, but you're always nearer an issue than you realise.
These days it's the MTB or up into the chilterns where it's pretty quiet.
I had read previously that (now this was a time ago so I may well have facts wrong) most of the deaths in London were from vehicles turning left and hitting crushing the biker who was on the left.
Really if that is the case it will come down to education and positioning. I would expect all of us have done idiotic things, and I did do that up the inside myself when I was younger and I learnt very quickly.
I hired a professional to do my commute with me and I learnt a lot about positioning and holding the road among a host of things, it was so helpful. If you're doing some commuting or cycling at busy times you have to... Live and breathe it. You can't just hop on a bike and cycle. You will end up on dual carriageways and in all sorts of situations which can be legal but there are many roads I just wouldn't ever go on. I'd take a longer quieter route. Although sometimes you encounter gangs on them which brings othe issues.
I really miss commuting by bike though, I had no issue jumping out of bed when it was cold. I thrived on it!
I had quite a few contacts, being squeezed by coaches overtaking too close blah blah blah. I only ever came off once and that was my own fault on works property, but you're always nearer an issue than you realise.
These days it's the MTB or up into the chilterns where it's pretty quiet.
Edited by White-Noise on Sunday 24th March 17:23
irc said:
Regards the above HGV killing female cyclists. News today in Glasgow that an HGV driver who turned left at lights and kicked a female cyclist was convicted of causing death by careless driving. Community service and 12 month ban.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-wes...
Seems very lenient.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-wes...
Seems very lenient.
QJumper said:
gangzoom said:
Haven't seen that.
I ended up cycling today, just more fun than sitting in traffic in a car.
I cycle most days, and have to say that I try never to put myself on the inside of a lorry. At traffics lights I'll always try to get in front if there's room, and if not I'll wait behind and let them go first.I ended up cycling today, just more fun than sitting in traffic in a car.
I know that people moan about cyclists jumping lights but, when driving, I often prefer it if they go a bit early and get moving, rather than waiting for them to stabilise and get out of the way.
As a kid a young lad got killed by a truck near were we lived, thats stuck with me.
You dont go up the inside, ever, and if you have to, stop, go onto the pavement, in fact anything but go anywhere near one, the drivers are usually pretty good but not all and they cant see you a lot of the time.
I had a close pass going to work one morning, I had a scary moment when I clocked the straps of my backpack wafting around and I had this "Final Destination" moment thinking the hooks for the curtain side on that particular truck or anything else sticking out could catch it, so got to work and cut all the spare off to avoid that possibility, very very unlikely but can happen.
I always have a small bar end mirror, its a godsend for spotting stuff creeping up on you, and you can plan your exit, make yourself a bit wider and mainly not have any suprises.
I think women can be less assertive than blokes, the archetypal bolshy cyclist that everyone loves to hate but when someone is playing fast and loose with squashing you, you can get a bit tetchy, and women tend not to be as arsey and territorial on the road.
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