Discussion
I've got a 2013 Cube Peloton with Sora 9 speed groupset and I'm having a nightmare with the indexing!
It was once my only bike, then my work bike and finally the Turbo trainer bike on a wahoo Kickr. After years of cycling in all weather I treated it to a new 50T chainring, SRAM chain, SRAM casette and finally inner/outer gear cable and despite my best effort the indexing is shocking!
I can get it to shift up (it's not silky smooth but it's Sora not Dura ace!)but it's coming down which is the problem, it just won't shift down to the small ring on the casette smoothly. It clatters and suddenly goes in, sometimes it goes in fine and 9 times out of 10 it'll go all the way to the bottom of the cassette if I shift down from the top of the cassette, almost like it needs a run up!
A local shop aligned the hanger which didn't help (it was out) and the limit screws are in the right place. He did say the hangar felt stronger in one way than the other when bending it to the correct position so his suggestion was to try a new hanger but he looked stumped to be honest.
The only two things I haven't changed are the hangar and shifter, which one is likely to be the biggest culprit or have missed something else?
Any help greatly appreciated before I start replacing parts unnecessarily.
It was once my only bike, then my work bike and finally the Turbo trainer bike on a wahoo Kickr. After years of cycling in all weather I treated it to a new 50T chainring, SRAM chain, SRAM casette and finally inner/outer gear cable and despite my best effort the indexing is shocking!
I can get it to shift up (it's not silky smooth but it's Sora not Dura ace!)but it's coming down which is the problem, it just won't shift down to the small ring on the casette smoothly. It clatters and suddenly goes in, sometimes it goes in fine and 9 times out of 10 it'll go all the way to the bottom of the cassette if I shift down from the top of the cassette, almost like it needs a run up!
A local shop aligned the hanger which didn't help (it was out) and the limit screws are in the right place. He did say the hangar felt stronger in one way than the other when bending it to the correct position so his suggestion was to try a new hanger but he looked stumped to be honest.
The only two things I haven't changed are the hangar and shifter, which one is likely to be the biggest culprit or have missed something else?
Any help greatly appreciated before I start replacing parts unnecessarily.
Something is slowing it releasing tension by definition from the symtpoms. Two things I wouldn't overlook are cable tension & the cable itself, even though you've changed it recently.
Cables are cheap, so change the inner again. When you set up, put the chain in the smallest cog, which it should do automatically without a cable. Then wind all the tension out of the barrel adjuster & when you reach the end, wind it in a turn. This gives you tension to add & a little to release. With a a fresh cable, you will be adding tension mostly. Then clamp the cable while pulling the end finger tight & go from there.
Not sure of the groupset but other things to check are B screw tension if applicable & without a cable & the bike in the stand, push the mech by hand to see if it changes smoothly - it should!
You can also clean & lube the pivot points in the parallel cage but only bother with this if it feels notchy by hand.
Cables are cheap, so change the inner again. When you set up, put the chain in the smallest cog, which it should do automatically without a cable. Then wind all the tension out of the barrel adjuster & when you reach the end, wind it in a turn. This gives you tension to add & a little to release. With a a fresh cable, you will be adding tension mostly. Then clamp the cable while pulling the end finger tight & go from there.
Not sure of the groupset but other things to check are B screw tension if applicable & without a cable & the bike in the stand, push the mech by hand to see if it changes smoothly - it should!
You can also clean & lube the pivot points in the parallel cage but only bother with this if it feels notchy by hand.
The grease on the cable barrel in the shifter gums up and puts too much drag on the cable for the rear mech to overcome.
Pull the hoods back so you can see where the cable goes into the shifter and spray a load of penetrating lube in there and work the shifter back and forth a few times. Once it’s evaporated use some light grease to re lubricate the workings.
Pull the hoods back so you can see where the cable goes into the shifter and spray a load of penetrating lube in there and work the shifter back and forth a few times. Once it’s evaporated use some light grease to re lubricate the workings.
All really good suggestions, thanks!
I've put a new outer cable on and I'm already on my second inner as I too assumed it must be dragging somewhere but it's smoother now than it's ever been.
I can remove the cable and check the high/low limits by manually pushing and releasing the derailer, it will go in all gears from one extreme to the other without going over and in to the wheel/frame
The rear derailleur was replaced a few years ago and it's only been ridden in the garage on the turbo trainer since then, it looks like new and still has the green Shimano grease inside it.
I've sprayed WD40 in to the shifter to clean it out and it definitely felt crisper when shifting. When shifting up the cassette it regularly doesn't shift fully (even on the old worn cassette and chain) and requires a little bit of extra push to get it over (unless you get the barrel adjuster in a mm perfect position and even then it's not perfect in all gears) which is leading me to think the shifter could be worn maybe? Would that give irregular shifting I'm some gears but not others?
I've put a new outer cable on and I'm already on my second inner as I too assumed it must be dragging somewhere but it's smoother now than it's ever been.
I can remove the cable and check the high/low limits by manually pushing and releasing the derailer, it will go in all gears from one extreme to the other without going over and in to the wheel/frame
The rear derailleur was replaced a few years ago and it's only been ridden in the garage on the turbo trainer since then, it looks like new and still has the green Shimano grease inside it.
I've sprayed WD40 in to the shifter to clean it out and it definitely felt crisper when shifting. When shifting up the cassette it regularly doesn't shift fully (even on the old worn cassette and chain) and requires a little bit of extra push to get it over (unless you get the barrel adjuster in a mm perfect position and even then it's not perfect in all gears) which is leading me to think the shifter could be worn maybe? Would that give irregular shifting I'm some gears but not others?
If you’ve not really addressed them yet I’d give the rear mech a scrupulous clean and lubricate the pivot points well. And see what could be done on the same lines to the shifter although it’s hardly easy to get into them.
A brand new inner/outer cable should not need replacing but worth checking. Ultimately it sounds like something isnt moving freely when it should and there are only so many moving parts/contact points in play here…
A brand new inner/outer cable should not need replacing but worth checking. Ultimately it sounds like something isnt moving freely when it should and there are only so many moving parts/contact points in play here…
Sorry I feel like I'm batting all these back but it's good to hear I've tried the same things everyone else would consider!
I spent hours the other day just trying everything I can think of (including greasing all the pivot points).
You're right in saying there are only so many parts that I can replace (thankfully it's only Sora and not Durace), the only older parts left are the shifter and derailleur hanger.
I spent hours the other day just trying everything I can think of (including greasing all the pivot points).
You're right in saying there are only so many parts that I can replace (thankfully it's only Sora and not Durace), the only older parts left are the shifter and derailleur hanger.
To be honest it does all eventually wear out. I battled the same symptoms for a year or so on a 2014 5700 series 105 groupset, tried new cables etc. but it was never quite right.
Ended up buying a complete 7000 series 105 groupset for £300 on wiggle earlier this year, sold the bits I didn’t need (brakes) and now shifting is spot on.
Ended up buying a complete 7000 series 105 groupset for £300 on wiggle earlier this year, sold the bits I didn’t need (brakes) and now shifting is spot on.
lufbramatt said:
The grease on the cable barrel in the shifter gums up and puts too much drag on the cable for the rear mech to overcome.
Pull the hoods back so you can see where the cable goes into the shifter and spray a load of penetrating lube in there and work the shifter back and forth a few times. Once it’s evaporated use some light grease to re lubricate the workings.
+1 for this. Do both shifters. Do not use WD40, proper penetrating fluid is much better at cleaning stuff out.Pull the hoods back so you can see where the cable goes into the shifter and spray a load of penetrating lube in there and work the shifter back and forth a few times. Once it’s evaporated use some light grease to re lubricate the workings.
Is the new chain the correct length?
First thing I would check would be the B-Limit screw position. This is ALWAYS the cause of any shifting issues I get.
Second thing I would do, would be to ride on the turbo trainer or a safe stretch of road, and look down at the mech when you shift down. If the mech jumps down straight away, but the chain is slow to move, that would indicate a B-Limit adjustment is necessary.
A wild card. A friend brought her bike around for me to look at complaining of ghost shifting despite having been set-up at a shop a few months before.
I rode it, and not only did it not ghost shift, the shifts(XT) were really fast and crisp. Then, finally, IT DID ghost shift into the small ring.
The cause was that the inner cable was too slack, but because the shifter was so slick, it was easy to double-click from the small cog into the next cog, then everything OK except that you couldn't shift into the biggest cog.
Then, on the way back down into the small cog, because the cable was so slack, the OUTER would catch on the edge of the barrel adjuster, then randomly free itself and drop into the correct position in the shifter and ghost shift down.
I would check the outer cable end-stops and caps with everything shifted to small cog, to see if the outer is not being held consistently.
First thing I would check would be the B-Limit screw position. This is ALWAYS the cause of any shifting issues I get.
Second thing I would do, would be to ride on the turbo trainer or a safe stretch of road, and look down at the mech when you shift down. If the mech jumps down straight away, but the chain is slow to move, that would indicate a B-Limit adjustment is necessary.
A wild card. A friend brought her bike around for me to look at complaining of ghost shifting despite having been set-up at a shop a few months before.
I rode it, and not only did it not ghost shift, the shifts(XT) were really fast and crisp. Then, finally, IT DID ghost shift into the small ring.
The cause was that the inner cable was too slack, but because the shifter was so slick, it was easy to double-click from the small cog into the next cog, then everything OK except that you couldn't shift into the biggest cog.
Then, on the way back down into the small cog, because the cable was so slack, the OUTER would catch on the edge of the barrel adjuster, then randomly free itself and drop into the correct position in the shifter and ghost shift down.
I would check the outer cable end-stops and caps with everything shifted to small cog, to see if the outer is not being held consistently.
Yes I've checked the chain and made sure it's the correct length, I removed a couple of links as it was too long.
B limit has been checked and doesn't make a huge change.
Going to give it another going over tonight hopefully, if I still doesn't work then I'll be playing parts lottery!
Indexing gears can be so satisfying when it works but almost the most frustrating thing in the world when it doesn't!
B limit has been checked and doesn't make a huge change.
Going to give it another going over tonight hopefully, if I still doesn't work then I'll be playing parts lottery!
Indexing gears can be so satisfying when it works but almost the most frustrating thing in the world when it doesn't!
Issue Resolved!!!
Well after stripping everything off, dismantling the shifter as much as possible and degreasing the inners, cheching the inner/outer cables.......
It still didn't work!
Feeling a little disheartened I watched a YouTube clip about the B limit screw and noticed he mentioned it only really needs adjusting if changing the size of cassette which I have done! I paid a bit more attention to the B limit screw than I did previously. I noticed the guy lifted the derailleur to take the tension off the screw when adjusting which was something I wasn't doing so I gave it a try and almost instantly the shifting improved!
It appears that I was screwing the limit screw into the hanger like I was planning on hanging a picture frame off it, by taking the tension off I gave the screw an opportunity to actually make an adjustment.
It's not perfect but it'll do for the turbo trainer and after my extreme degreasing and regressing my shifter has never felt so good.
Little disappointed with the local bike shop, I've never visited him before and he's a local guy running a workshop from his garage. Appears to have all the gear and the right qualifications.....oh well at least it wasn't something major/expensive!
Thanks for the help and well done to everyone who suggested the B limit screw!
Well after stripping everything off, dismantling the shifter as much as possible and degreasing the inners, cheching the inner/outer cables.......
It still didn't work!
Feeling a little disheartened I watched a YouTube clip about the B limit screw and noticed he mentioned it only really needs adjusting if changing the size of cassette which I have done! I paid a bit more attention to the B limit screw than I did previously. I noticed the guy lifted the derailleur to take the tension off the screw when adjusting which was something I wasn't doing so I gave it a try and almost instantly the shifting improved!
It appears that I was screwing the limit screw into the hanger like I was planning on hanging a picture frame off it, by taking the tension off I gave the screw an opportunity to actually make an adjustment.
It's not perfect but it'll do for the turbo trainer and after my extreme degreasing and regressing my shifter has never felt so good.
Little disappointed with the local bike shop, I've never visited him before and he's a local guy running a workshop from his garage. Appears to have all the gear and the right qualifications.....oh well at least it wasn't something major/expensive!
Thanks for the help and well done to everyone who suggested the B limit screw!
Edited by Random84 on Wednesday 2nd August 19:23
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