Noticeable difference alu bike to carbon in speed/effort/etc

[Dracoro]

Semi-considering “upgrading” my 2013 Specialized Secteur (good condition, just serviced etc.) for a carbon equivalent (Roubaix, Giant Defy, Scott Addict etc.).

I go out, on average, about 2 evenings a week doing about 30miles a time (mix of flat and hilly, West Sussex). I am tall (6’4”) and have had back issues in the past, however reasonably fit given age (48) but certainly no speed demon and not into racing or club stuff.

How much difference will I “really” appreciate switching to a lighter better bike (as per above, Roubaix/Defy etc.)
Will it be night and day difference and go from 15/16mph avg to 18 or something overnight? doing 35/40 in 2hours instead of 30 etc.? That example from mixed flat and some hilly.

Would prob keep the Secteur for more winter use and the carbon for dry use. Don’t do much winter cycling but will probably do more than historically have as done a LOT more cycling in past year as much more into it now fitter etc.

What would you guys recommend? Stick with Secteur as not much different in the real world, or upgrade an expose myself to next level enjoyment of cycling?

[sociopath]

I have an ally Cannondale Synapse, a carbon Trek Domane, and a carbon Giant Advanced Propel Aero bike.

The difference in weight between the carbon and the ally may only be a few kg, but it's slow, hard work and much less fun to ride. I avoid riding it as much as I can, it's for seriously bad weather only as it has mudguards

[CheesecakeRunner]

There is a GCN video just for you

https://youtu.be/e4oUAH4UWVQ

[Dracoro]

CheesecakeRunner said:

There is a GCN video just for you

https://youtu.be/e4oUAH4UWVQ

It's funny, have watched a load of GCN videos but seem to have missed that one!

[Dracoro]

Food for thought.

The other option is to spend money upgrading the Secteur - could be that the frame isn't that much heavier than carbon on, just the more "budget" components from 9 years ago are the main weighing elements....

Has triple chainset which won't be light, I assume wheels won't be. And would prefer disk brakes too.

This is the bike https://www.thebikelist.co.uk/specialized/secteur-...

Can't find out how much the frame weighs to compare against a new carbon to know what the difference it. a couple of kilos or just a few hundred grams???

[outnumbered]

It won't be a night and day difference in performance, despite what bike reviewers will tell you. How aero you are as a rider, plus having a good position to make power, has the biggest impact.

That said, I enjoy riding my light carbon bike more than my 1kg heavier 23 year old alloy bike which is set up almost identically. It just feels a bit more responsive, e.g. if you go to sprint up a small hill. I doubt there's more than a percentage point or two in performance though.

[Miocene]

outnumbered said:

It won't be a night and day difference in performance, despite what bike reviewers will tell you. How aero you are as a rider, plus having a good position to make power, has the biggest impact.

That said, I enjoy riding my light carbon bike more than my 1kg heavier 23 year old alloy bike which is set up almost identically. It just feels a bit more responsive, e.g. if you go to sprint up a small hill. I doubt there's more than a percentage point or two in performance though.

This. Ignore what the reviews say, i've just gone from a 2012 alu Cube road bike to a 2021 Giant TCR with carbon wheels. The Giant weighs 1-1.5kg less, but i'm not noticeably faster on it - at least not up to 2hours or so.

The main difference i've found is comfort - at the end of 2hours before my backside had had enough, but at the end of 2hours now I could happily keep on going. I've not done a longer ride, but I suspect if I were to do 4hours or so, I would be quicker purely as i'm more comfortable.

[Dracoro]

Thanks

Would any one suggest significant upgrades to the current bike? Axis classic wheels currently, will newer lighter ones be worth it or do you have to spend nearly £1k before getting appreciable difference?

Same questions really for the group set, I would like disk brakes and twin rather than triple (rarely use the large ring anyway) and electronic shifting appeals (eTap/di2 etc.) but that’ another £1k+ I would think. I do wonder how heavy the current chain set is…. Even if replacing with mech 105 or something could make a difference?

Add those together (+ labour for LBS to sort it out) and you’re pretty much at the price of a new Defy 0 etc…..

[outnumbered]

You can't add disc brakes to a rim brake frame BTW.

I'd guess that trying to upgrade your current bike in a meaningful way won't be too far off the cost of a new bike (albeit not a high end one).

You mentioned you'd had back trouble, so if you do go for a new bike, look for sportif/endurance geometry. Some of the bikes you mentioned earlier (e.g. the Addict) are full race bikes, so will be way lower at the front than your existing Secteur which is much taller. Defy 2 would be a better bet of the ones your mentioned.

[CheesecakeRunner]

Dracoro said:

Would any one suggest significant upgrades to the current bike? Axis classic wheels currently, will newer lighter ones be worth it or do you have to spend nearly £1k before getting appreciable difference?

If you’re keeping the frame, then in order of most effect on weight and performance versus cost….

Premium (wider) tyres and latex tubes first, they make the biggest difference comfort and rolling resistance. 28mm minimum, 30 or maybe even 32 if your frame and brakes will accommodate them.

Then wheels and bars/stem/seat post. Off the shelve these are generally lumps of pig iron. Also enables you to really dial in your position. Consider a bike fit beforehand.

Then chainset. These are the heaviest bit of a group set.

Then the rest of the group set. Because performance and weight differential between modern mechs and shifters in different ranges is not that huge given how much they cost.

[Dracoro]

outnumbered said:

You can't add disc brakes to a rim brake frame BTW.

OK, why is that? I thought it was down to the wheels (of which I would need to replace for disk brakes), but sounds like it’s a frame restriction?

outnumbered said:

I'd guess that trying to upgrade your current bike in a meaningful way won't be too far off the cost of a new bike (albeit not a high end one).

Well, yes, that’s what my research is pointing towards…

outnumbered said:

You mentioned you'd had back trouble, so if you do go for a new bike, look for sportif/endurance geometry. Some of the bikes you mentioned earlier (e.g. the Addict) are full race bikes, so will be way lower at the front than your existing Secteur which is much taller. Defy 2 would be a better bet of the ones your mentioned.

From the Scott site (and reviews), the Addict is the endurance range, however the Addict RC the race range?

Basically the 3 I am looking at are (approx budget c£3k):
https://www.scott-sports.com/gb/en/product/scott-a...
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/defy-advanced-0
https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/roubaix-sport/p/...

[hyperblue]

Dracoro said:

outnumbered said:

You can't add disc brakes to a rim brake frame BTW.

OK, why is that? I thought it was down to the wheels (of which I would need to replace for disk brakes), but sounds like it’s a frame restriction?

There’s no mounting hardware on the frame to bolt the callipers onto for a start.

I’ve got two road bikes, winter one is 12kg, summer one is 8kg. The big difference for me is the improved acceleration/responsiveness of the lighter bike as well as climbing being noticeably easier. It’s also a lot more fun to ride and makes me want to keep the pace up during a ride.

[upsidedownmark]

IMO There's likely a big difference in perception, and very little difference in actuality.

Case in point; Cervelo S2 (carbon, aero), Canondale topstone (farily upright alloy gravel), Mason bokeh (more racy alloy gravel).

S2 feels rapid AF. Twitchy, skinny tyres (23mm), etc, 1.5kg lighter than the other two. After 3 hrs, I hate it 'cos it beats me up..
Got the topstone as a stopgap. Feels 'muted', is not responsive, relatively slow (even with a set of slicks) - I'm sitting up like a sail/airbrake.
Got the mason (which was the end goal). Feel.. not snappy like the cervelo, but smooth. Slower steering, still super stiff.. but on 28mm slicks, a ton more comfy on the crap tarmac, and I can ride it all day (literally). I'd swear I'm going slower because everything is that much more calm, but speeds finish up being pretty damn close to the cervelo; yes, it must be slightly slower, especially on hills where the extra 1.5kg counts.. but it's so marginal it's not detectable in terms of ride times.

So IMO position makes far more difference than frame material, bigger tyres make more difference than anything, and a lot of folks espousing how much difference it makes are being mislead by the feel. A caterham feels a damn sight faster than a 911, but it isn't really

[Harpoon]

Dracoro said:

From the Scott site (and reviews), the Addict is the endurance range, however the Addict RC the race range?

Basically the 3 I am looking at are (approx budget c£3k):
https://www.scott-sports.com/gb/en/product/scott-a...
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/defy-advanced-0
https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/roubaix-sport/p/...

I would add a Cannondale Synapse to list. Disclaimer though - I have one and love it to bits. A new Synapse was launched this year and comes with electronic bits like lights / rear radar, frame mounted battery pack. The previous generation (which I have) generally got excellent reviews. I did a 70 mile Sportive on mine yesterday and whilst I was cooked by the end, I wasn't beaten up.

These are ex-demo and are "only" 105 so no electronic shifting but £1999 is a very good price IMO.

https://www.hargreaves-cycles.co.uk/m39b0s412p1127...

Leaves you a grand (or less) to upgrade to some nice carbon wheels. Sigma have the Vel 50mm wheelset reduced to £549:

https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Vel/50-RL-Carbon-...

If a 54cm frame fits, they do have a Ultegra Di2 for £2999

https://www.hargreaves-cycles.co.uk/m39b0s412p9307...

[gl20]

Miocene said:

The main difference i've found is comfort - at the end of 2hours before my backside had had enough, but at the end of 2hours now I could happily keep on going. I've not done a longer ride, but I suspect if I were to do 4hours or so, I would be quicker purely as i'm more comfortable.

This was going to be my comment too. I’m still on my first aluminium bike (Defy) but am close to buying a carbon one (probably canyon aeroroad) having hired carbon climbing and aero bikes on holidays. Over bumps, carbon is nicer and you get much less buzz through the handlebars.

[ucb]

Dracoro said:

From the Scott site (and reviews), the Addict is the endurance range, however the Addict RC the race range?

Basically the 3 I am looking at are (approx budget c£3k):
https://www.scott-sports.com/gb/en/product/scott-a...
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/defy-advanced-0
https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/roubaix-sport/p/...

In a similar position to you(also have a thread about updating my commuter but want a racier bike than it is).
Will continue to read with interest how you get on. Of your three, my preference is the Scott>Giant>Specialized out of nothing more than personal bias

[wobert]

Take a look at the Canyon Endurace in CF SL flavour. Features 28mm tyres, hydraulic discs and is built for longer distance endurance.

I did 105 miles on mine last Sunday and it was comfortable even until the end.

The CF SLs come with a carbon fibre seat post which is designed as a leaf spring to soak road vibration up.

Edited by wobert on Monday 15th August 14:42

[boyse7en]

I have gone from a 2010 Specialized Tricross Sport aluminium framed 11kg to a Neil Pryde carbon framed aero road bike weighing about 8kg.

Riding a weekly 50 mile route shows that my average speed has increased by about 0.5mph according to Strava. Most of this gain is on the hills. The carbon fibre frame feels much lighter, and acceleration is much snappier, but once up to speed it doesn't seem to make much difference.

For the purposes of clarity, my 50 milers usually have around 4000ft of climbing and average speed is about 16mph. If you are much quicker you might see a bigger gain, but I wouldn't expect to be transformed into a racing god simply due to a lighter frame.

[Dracoro]

Ta all, the extra speed (such that it may be) would be “nice”, however I’d rather get to a point of going further distance for the effort. For example, somewhat spent at 45 miles, if I can do 50/60 before legs worn out, that’d be great! Regular 32m route is about 2300ft elevation gain over cycle.

The appeal of easier climbing appeals, TBH the flats are fine and plenty fast enough as it is, but the hills are what really slow me down.
Am 50 next year so under no illusions of turning into a speed demon

[BoRED S2upid]

I found upgrading wheels made the bike quicker than the couple of kg weight difference unless you live in the alps.