Discussion
Evening Chaps,
Just looking for your thoughts and opinions really.
I took up road cycling last year. Really enjoying it, and have gotten into it quite bad. I managed just over 700 miles last year with a longest ride of 66 miles! This year I'm aiming for 1000 miles, currently at 325 with a longest ride of 72 miles. My usual rides are around 20 miles.
Anyway, since being out in the roads this year, the standard of driving seems to have got worse. I'm having much more frequent and close passes, and have had one quite scary incident on a roundabout where a guy nearly failed to stop in time from easily 60mph, and then seemed to think it was my fault for already being on said roundabout.
I'm becoming more and more hesitant about going out which sucks as its something I've really gotten into and it's benefitted my mental health tremendously. I know a few on here are avid MTBers but that doesn't really appeal to me. Off the roads I have booked Silverstone, looking at Mallory Park open sessions and for other track based stuff where I can go full pelt without dealing with our lovely car driving friends!
I don't currently have any cameras and would like to get some, it won't necessarily stop something happening, but will give me a little more peace of mind.
I'd like to know what kinds of cameras you use, where you mount them, and how many. Is it worth having two, to have one facing rearwards etc.
I'm willing to fork out for GoPros if I have to, but would like to hear experiences and if there are any good value alternatives! As an aside if anyone can recommend other closed road sessions/race track based events that would also be greatly appreciated. I am Warwickshire based, but will travel.
Sorry for the longer post for such a minor question, and thanks in advance! Ben
Just looking for your thoughts and opinions really.
I took up road cycling last year. Really enjoying it, and have gotten into it quite bad. I managed just over 700 miles last year with a longest ride of 66 miles! This year I'm aiming for 1000 miles, currently at 325 with a longest ride of 72 miles. My usual rides are around 20 miles.
Anyway, since being out in the roads this year, the standard of driving seems to have got worse. I'm having much more frequent and close passes, and have had one quite scary incident on a roundabout where a guy nearly failed to stop in time from easily 60mph, and then seemed to think it was my fault for already being on said roundabout.
I'm becoming more and more hesitant about going out which sucks as its something I've really gotten into and it's benefitted my mental health tremendously. I know a few on here are avid MTBers but that doesn't really appeal to me. Off the roads I have booked Silverstone, looking at Mallory Park open sessions and for other track based stuff where I can go full pelt without dealing with our lovely car driving friends!
I don't currently have any cameras and would like to get some, it won't necessarily stop something happening, but will give me a little more peace of mind.
I'd like to know what kinds of cameras you use, where you mount them, and how many. Is it worth having two, to have one facing rearwards etc.
I'm willing to fork out for GoPros if I have to, but would like to hear experiences and if there are any good value alternatives! As an aside if anyone can recommend other closed road sessions/race track based events that would also be greatly appreciated. I am Warwickshire based, but will travel.
Sorry for the longer post for such a minor question, and thanks in advance! Ben
Im currently half a step ahead of you but remain undecided
GoPro seems the default commuter cam however battery life isnt great, probs a bit more than an hour
For longer battery Cycliq have a bit of a following however are a bit heavy if thats a concern and Chilli Tech look good at a cheaper price point but the definition can lack in low light/night time
Let me know what your own research reveals......
Oh, and the other thing which inhibits me is the stigma surrounding the PH dashcam thread which is largely populated by camera types escalating conflict and looking for trouble instead of driving defensibly
Cheers
I think you just have to get used to riding defensively where appropriate. I’ve been riding 4-5000 miles a year on the road for 30 years now, and in that time have only been hit by one car where it wasn’t my fault. Being aware of pinch points, oncoming HGVs etc and taking a defensive position goes a long way to keeping you safe. If you get too hung up on “close passes” then you will probably stop enjoying road riding, they are just a fact of life.
I bought a GoPro 7 Black and it was unreliable - I'd get home to find it had crashed, and then it even crashed going into the menus to factory reset it. Apparently the 10 is pretty good though.
I replaced it with a DJI Osmo Action (the old GoPro style shape) and it has been 100% reliable. The battery lasts at least 75 minutes, and I got a deal where you get 2 spares and a charger, so usually I put one in a back pocket, they are tiny.
I have a Chilli-tech bought last year. The quality is *garbage* but it's cheap. If you do anything in evening/twilight then don't bother. I emailed them to send it back (under their 30 day refund thing) but got no reply and never got around to chasing it up, so don't rely on that.
Using bright flashing lights during the day and low light is a good idea anyway, but it can help illuminate a plate very well.
Mounting is a problem. I tried helmet mounting and it's not recommended on a road bike helmet - just makes them top-heavy and also there's a safety concern. The cheap aluminium saddle rail mounts work very well, but use threadlock on the bolts otherwise they can shake apart very quickly. For handlebar mounts only use aluminium ones, plastic causes too much shake, and keep them short. Play with disabling stabilisation because the very fine road vibration can work against it.
That said yes, it's a long-term view and getting overly annoyed at anything except stupid stuff will suck the fun out of riding.
I see posts on Twitter about people going out for a 1.5hr ride and then sending 10 reports to the police and wonder just how bad they were. On average in that sort of ride I might get maybe 1 or 2 that would meet the police's criteria, but generally submit one ever other week where there was something clearly negligent and risked somebody else's safety too (which is what seems to trigger actual interest from them).
I replaced it with a DJI Osmo Action (the old GoPro style shape) and it has been 100% reliable. The battery lasts at least 75 minutes, and I got a deal where you get 2 spares and a charger, so usually I put one in a back pocket, they are tiny.
I have a Chilli-tech bought last year. The quality is *garbage* but it's cheap. If you do anything in evening/twilight then don't bother. I emailed them to send it back (under their 30 day refund thing) but got no reply and never got around to chasing it up, so don't rely on that.
Using bright flashing lights during the day and low light is a good idea anyway, but it can help illuminate a plate very well.
Mounting is a problem. I tried helmet mounting and it's not recommended on a road bike helmet - just makes them top-heavy and also there's a safety concern. The cheap aluminium saddle rail mounts work very well, but use threadlock on the bolts otherwise they can shake apart very quickly. For handlebar mounts only use aluminium ones, plastic causes too much shake, and keep them short. Play with disabling stabilisation because the very fine road vibration can work against it.
outnumbered said:
If you get too hung up on “close passes” then you will probably stop enjoying road riding, they are just a fact of life.
It's a tricky one - they happen, but that doesn't mean we can't work for better standards. The new HC has IMO resulted in noticeably better driving overall, and if drivers are aware that a close pass could result in a letter/course/points from a rider using a camera then they will drive better.That said yes, it's a long-term view and getting overly annoyed at anything except stupid stuff will suck the fun out of riding.
I see posts on Twitter about people going out for a 1.5hr ride and then sending 10 reports to the police and wonder just how bad they were. On average in that sort of ride I might get maybe 1 or 2 that would meet the police's criteria, but generally submit one ever other week where there was something clearly negligent and risked somebody else's safety too (which is what seems to trigger actual interest from them).
Edited by Gareth79 on Saturday 21st May 00:09
outnumbered said:
If you get too hung up on “close passes” then you will probably stop enjoying road riding, they are just a fact of life.
Quite agree, I cannot see why/how having a helmet cam will make you feel safer or other road users treat you differently.In nearly 20 years of using a pedal bike (on/off) for commuting I've only been hit by a car once, and ironically that was at a red light when the driver just decided to go for no reason. Had I not been on the bike the same result would have occurred.
Contrary to what you might think/feel or even some cyclists hating mentality you see on social media (and this forum), most drivers give cyclists plenty of space. The 'close pass' brigade are actually in the minority.
I have however lost count now the number of times I've hit the tarmac....
......for me the biggest danger I feel on my pedal bike is my self! EIther from going to fast, or cornering too quickly, or been inpatient when trying pass stationery traffic. So these days I take it easy, I save my 'fitness' rides for the indoor bike, in the real world taking unnecessary risk to save 30 seconds over a 30 minute commute/ride isn't worth it.
If you really cannot get use to cars there are lots for more cycle lanes around, the only 'issue' with them is you will barely be able to maintain 15mph on them due to other cyclists, dog walkers, merging junctions etc.
Overall though, I find cycling so much more of an enjoyable way to use/experience the roads than any car. Having a helmet cam wouldn’t make it any more enjoyable.
Edited by gangzoom on Saturday 21st May 05:52
I can't really comment specifically on cameras as I don't use them myself, but the new Garmin Varia radar light now has a camera built in which may be worth a look. Rear only though.
The radar light itself I have found to be invaluable in helping 'see' what's going on behind, giving you alerts when a car is coming up (from about 140m away I think) and it's relative speed, so you can be prepared when it gets to you. It also puts the light into a flashing pattern when it sees a car, making you more visable. All the info is routed through your computer (assuming you have one).
The radar light itself I have found to be invaluable in helping 'see' what's going on behind, giving you alerts when a car is coming up (from about 140m away I think) and it's relative speed, so you can be prepared when it gets to you. It also puts the light into a flashing pattern when it sees a car, making you more visable. All the info is routed through your computer (assuming you have one).
Rear - Ive got the Fly 6 rear camera/light - not cheap but very simple to use. Battery lasts 6 hours and SD card re-records over itself (ie 4 hours on 32GB) - its a fit and forget option, but its not cheap at about 200.
Front - had a Gopro session for a long time until i lost it, and now using an old SJCam SJ4000, does the job for about 75 minutes, so i tend to just switch it on in built up areas when on a longer ride.
Ive submitted a few incidents and had prosecutions in every case they put to court. I tend to only submit when drivers purposely did close passes etc. rather than just poor judegement. Otherwise would be submitting every other day !
As above - its not going to make anyone drive differently, but should anything happen, you have it recoorded. For safety I agree - learn to ride defensively, take primary position, and move out at squeeze points to stop drivers trying to squeeze past when theres not enough room.
Front - had a Gopro session for a long time until i lost it, and now using an old SJCam SJ4000, does the job for about 75 minutes, so i tend to just switch it on in built up areas when on a longer ride.
Ive submitted a few incidents and had prosecutions in every case they put to court. I tend to only submit when drivers purposely did close passes etc. rather than just poor judegement. Otherwise would be submitting every other day !
As above - its not going to make anyone drive differently, but should anything happen, you have it recoorded. For safety I agree - learn to ride defensively, take primary position, and move out at squeeze points to stop drivers trying to squeeze past when theres not enough room.
Thanks for the responses guys.
I wasn't going into this with the mindset of the typical dashcam warrior, and its quite right that it wouldn't actually stop anything from happening, but on the occasions that something particularly bad happens then at least I have the footage to back me up. Also if someone did get caught/penalised from my footage it could be the difference between them doing something to another cyclist.
Good to read about peoples experiences with mounting. I've been told a helmet mount is a complete no because of the potential of further head injury. A colleague suggested a chest mount, but I'm unsure on that too. Would rather mount to the bike to be honest.
I also like the sound of the radar system, when it's windy (and most of my rides include roads surrounding an airfield, so that's quite often the case!) I sometimes struggle to hear approaching traffic, but obviously have the occasional check behind, and you do also get a bit of a sense for these things.
I have learned to ride more defensively, and also I think that part of why I feel like I have recently about other cars is down to the times that I have been out riding. I only took up cycling this time last year as the evenings started to draw out, so going out at 6/6:30 ish, where as I started going out this year at the end of January so later in the mornings and earlier in the evenings as I don't ride in the dark. Now the light is drawing out again I can start going back out a bit later.
I went out for 20 miles on Saturday evening and it was nice. Just one close and fast pass by a 5 series on a straight road. I just swore under my breath and carried on!
Still weighing up my options at the moment with the cameras, but will feed back on what I end up doing.
Thanks again!
I wasn't going into this with the mindset of the typical dashcam warrior, and its quite right that it wouldn't actually stop anything from happening, but on the occasions that something particularly bad happens then at least I have the footage to back me up. Also if someone did get caught/penalised from my footage it could be the difference between them doing something to another cyclist.
Good to read about peoples experiences with mounting. I've been told a helmet mount is a complete no because of the potential of further head injury. A colleague suggested a chest mount, but I'm unsure on that too. Would rather mount to the bike to be honest.
I also like the sound of the radar system, when it's windy (and most of my rides include roads surrounding an airfield, so that's quite often the case!) I sometimes struggle to hear approaching traffic, but obviously have the occasional check behind, and you do also get a bit of a sense for these things.
I have learned to ride more defensively, and also I think that part of why I feel like I have recently about other cars is down to the times that I have been out riding. I only took up cycling this time last year as the evenings started to draw out, so going out at 6/6:30 ish, where as I started going out this year at the end of January so later in the mornings and earlier in the evenings as I don't ride in the dark. Now the light is drawing out again I can start going back out a bit later.
I went out for 20 miles on Saturday evening and it was nice. Just one close and fast pass by a 5 series on a straight road. I just swore under my breath and carried on!
Still weighing up my options at the moment with the cameras, but will feed back on what I end up doing.
Thanks again!
WelshPetrolhead said:
I went out for 20 miles on Saturday evening and it was nice. Just one close and fast pass by a 5 series on a straight road. I just swore under my breath and carried on!
If you are going to keep on/increase the amount of time on the road, learn to just 'ignore' these things. It's honestly pointless getting worked up by close/fast passing. Though I have to confess I deliberately avoid long straight country roads on my commute, we are all drivers here, we all know how 'slow' 60mph is on any road in a morden car, so it's unrealistic to expect drivers to slow down that much in some situations.
Narrower, twisty roads I find feel far 'safer', if you can hold 20mph a car passing at 30-35mph really doesn't feel that fast even if they are close. But any car going past you at 60mph+ will feel very uncomfortable.
Some of the feeling unsafe is important though for self preservation, if it always happens on one bit of road, than try not to use that bit of road. It's good to bare in mind any real physical contact between you and a car doing anything close to the national speed limit will only have one out come for you......
The likes of GCN doing TT videos on dual carriageways is frankly nuts to me. Especially when they talk about how HGVs gives you a slight slip stream when they thunder pass. If you look at the details of cycling fatalities (something you really should do if you are going to keep up road cycling), HGVs/buses are by far the biggest dangers, followed by people doing amateur TT races.
Getting hit by a car on a country road thankfully is rare, but sadly it does happen.
Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 24th May 06:40
mie1972 said:
so i tend to just switch it on in built up areas when on a longer ride.
If you look at the numbers, it's the rural roads the camera needs to be on! There is demoniator but the fatality rate on rural roads is higher. The male 40-49 age group is also at the highest risk of death!
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-...
I am in the same boat as all the posters above, cycling on the roads for coming up to a year and the driving standards and safety are bothering me.
I've seen another cyclist with what i asume is a gopro right on the top of her helmet. Clearly visible and i thought at the time a good deterrent for close passes etc. I think a well placed visible camera would work to deter poor driving. If it didnt of course, you have the footage as well to pass to police.
I like the look of the Drift XL, 9 hour battery and can be fitted to the helmet so it sees what you see. Not as visible to others as the gopro though.
I've seen another cyclist with what i asume is a gopro right on the top of her helmet. Clearly visible and i thought at the time a good deterrent for close passes etc. I think a well placed visible camera would work to deter poor driving. If it didnt of course, you have the footage as well to pass to police.
I like the look of the Drift XL, 9 hour battery and can be fitted to the helmet so it sees what you see. Not as visible to others as the gopro though.
eniacs said:
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I've seen another cyclist with what i asume is a gopro right on the top of her helmet. Clearly visible and i thought at the time a good deterrent for close passes etc.
A close pass isn't going to kill or injury you, those are two outcomes you 100% want to avoid.I've seen another cyclist with what i asume is a gopro right on the top of her helmet. Clearly visible and i thought at the time a good deterrent for close passes etc.
If you read up the cases of injury/death in cyclists it's usually when drivers fail to 'see' an cyclist. If a driver doesn't see you, they are not going to notice a camera on your helmet.
I actually feel more 'vulnerable' cycling this time of the year than in winter. When the days are darker, I run x3 front and x3 rear lights, plus loads of reflective clothing for car head lights. If you fail to 'see' me as a driver than you literally have to be blind! But in the day time, you are totally reliant on the driver paying attention to the road conditions ahead, which we all know is literally like gambling without your life at times.
Honestly drivers who clock me and does a 'close pass' I have zero issues with, the ones that pull out of a junction without looking, slam on their brakes without looking behind first are the ones I'm terrified of.
Luckily most drivers who see you are fine, and I've (yet) to come across a driver who actually wants to murder a cyclist by crashing into them on purpose, but the scary thing is if you read some of the comments on here I do believe some people wouldn't actually care about injuring or killing another road user.
I see cycling on public roads almost like an adrenaline sport, like free diving, base jumping etc. You have to accept there is a very real risk of death/injury, but equally life is for doing something you enjoy, risk is to an degree what makes life feel exciting.
Meet the wrong driver, in the wrong place and time, its game over, camera or not. The thing you have to decide is how big/small a chance of that happening you are 'comfortable' with.
gangzoom said:
A close pass isn't going to kill or injury you, those are two outcomes you 100% want to avoid.
If you read up the cases of injury/death in cyclists it's usually when drivers fail to 'see' an cyclist. If a driver doesn't see you, they are not going to notice a camera on your helmet.
I actually feel more 'vulnerable' cycling this time of the year than in winter. When the days are darker, I run x3 front and x3 rear lights, plus loads of reflective clothing for car head lights. If you fail to 'see' me as a driver than you literally have to be blind! But in the day time, you are totally reliant on the driver paying attention to the road conditions ahead, which we all know is literally like gambling without your life at times.
[Img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51675611070_724d2a1964_c_d.jpg[/thumb]
Honestly drivers who clock me and does a 'close pass' I have zero issues with, the ones that pull out of a junction without looking, slam on their brakes without looking behind first are the ones I'm terrified of.
Luckily most drivers who see you are fine, and I've (yet) to come across a driver who actually wants to murder a cyclist by crashing into them on purpose, but the scary thing is if you read some of the comments on here I do believe some people wouldn't actually care about injuring or killing another road user.
I see cycling on public roads almost like an adrenaline sport, like free diving, base jumping etc. You have to accept there is a very real risk of death/injury, but equally life is for doing something you enjoy, risk is to an degree what makes life feel exciting.
Meet the wrong driver, in the wrong place and time, its game over, camera or not. The thing you have to decide is how big/small a chance of that happening you are 'comfortable' with.
I can sympathise with this.. especially the "driver who doesn't check behind before braking". Ive had as many near misses from drivers overtaking me, then braking as anything else.If you read up the cases of injury/death in cyclists it's usually when drivers fail to 'see' an cyclist. If a driver doesn't see you, they are not going to notice a camera on your helmet.
I actually feel more 'vulnerable' cycling this time of the year than in winter. When the days are darker, I run x3 front and x3 rear lights, plus loads of reflective clothing for car head lights. If you fail to 'see' me as a driver than you literally have to be blind! But in the day time, you are totally reliant on the driver paying attention to the road conditions ahead, which we all know is literally like gambling without your life at times.
[Img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51675611070_724d2a1964_c_d.jpg[/thumb]
Honestly drivers who clock me and does a 'close pass' I have zero issues with, the ones that pull out of a junction without looking, slam on their brakes without looking behind first are the ones I'm terrified of.
Luckily most drivers who see you are fine, and I've (yet) to come across a driver who actually wants to murder a cyclist by crashing into them on purpose, but the scary thing is if you read some of the comments on here I do believe some people wouldn't actually care about injuring or killing another road user.
I see cycling on public roads almost like an adrenaline sport, like free diving, base jumping etc. You have to accept there is a very real risk of death/injury, but equally life is for doing something you enjoy, risk is to an degree what makes life feel exciting.
Meet the wrong driver, in the wrong place and time, its game over, camera or not. The thing you have to decide is how big/small a chance of that happening you are 'comfortable' with.
For me the cameras are for the "dont give a monkeys about motorists", which fortunately there are very few of, who decide to pull out on you anyway whilst staring at you, and then give you the finger as they drive off... (the woman in blue kia cr'eed A17GAK.. i'm thinking of you). Luckily for them I don't have a front facing camera yet....
I've been considering a drift ghost x to mount on the helmet, but worried about the impact of weight/how obtrusive it would be..
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