Advice for 250KM rides
Discussion
Hi all,
Thought I would ask the collective as some might already have ridden distances around 250km in a single ride, for general advice and learnings that they've taken away from it.
For context, next year (Jan and March) I have 2 big event rides that I've signed up for. The first is around 250km with 5000m of climbing, and the second is 235km with 4500m of climbing. I've started to train for both these rides already via a training peaks program + long rides on the weekend. My nutrition feels comfortable at the moment, I take around 80g of carbs an hour via various SIS products and they sit comfortably in my stomach. However, I thought I would ask here to see if I might be missing a trick.
FYI - at the moment via training and weekend rides, I'm doing between 250-300km a week on the bike. Trying to include climbing rides but this is often limited due to hill availability so I will do via zwift when I can't get out up a hill.
These are the 2 routes that I'll be doing if anyone is interested.
Jan event - https://www.strava.com/routes/2858862284072342112
March event - https://www.strava.com/routes/3208141
Thought I would ask the collective as some might already have ridden distances around 250km in a single ride, for general advice and learnings that they've taken away from it.
For context, next year (Jan and March) I have 2 big event rides that I've signed up for. The first is around 250km with 5000m of climbing, and the second is 235km with 4500m of climbing. I've started to train for both these rides already via a training peaks program + long rides on the weekend. My nutrition feels comfortable at the moment, I take around 80g of carbs an hour via various SIS products and they sit comfortably in my stomach. However, I thought I would ask here to see if I might be missing a trick.
FYI - at the moment via training and weekend rides, I'm doing between 250-300km a week on the bike. Trying to include climbing rides but this is often limited due to hill availability so I will do via zwift when I can't get out up a hill.
These are the 2 routes that I'll be doing if anyone is interested.
Jan event - https://www.strava.com/routes/2858862284072342112
March event - https://www.strava.com/routes/3208141
Edited by MelbourneWoody on Monday 2nd May 23:53
Nothing particularly useful to reply with as I tend to avoid hills (anything around 1000m climbing per 100km is managable for me but your routes would kill me!) but as you say really, getting some hill work in when you can, even if just tooling up and down Alpe du Zwift to get some climbing mileage in would be a good place to start.
Out of interest, how hot will it be on those rides as that would be a big factor for me?
Out of interest, how hot will it be on those rides as that would be a big factor for me?
I'd move away from the "sports" foods and drinks if I were you. Keep a gel or bar with you at all times in case you suddenly feel starving, but I would be eating a mixture of normal foods.
I did an Everesting a few years ago, it took me 27 hours and was the wrong side of 300 km. I couldn't face sweet things, and normally I have a really sweet tooth; normally I can eat a whole pack of biscuits on my own or a bag of wine gums, that kind of thing.
What worked for me was a small amount and often, although there are times when you just don't want to eat anything, but you have to force yourself.
I did an Everesting a few years ago, it took me 27 hours and was the wrong side of 300 km. I couldn't face sweet things, and normally I have a really sweet tooth; normally I can eat a whole pack of biscuits on my own or a bag of wine gums, that kind of thing.
What worked for me was a small amount and often, although there are times when you just don't want to eat anything, but you have to force yourself.
Daveyraveygravey said:
I'd move away from the "sports" foods and drinks if I were you. Keep a gel or bar with you at all times in case you suddenly feel starving, but I would be eating a mixture of normal foods.
I did an Everesting a few years ago, it took me 27 hours and was the wrong side of 300 km. I couldn't face sweet things, and normally I have a really sweet tooth; normally I can eat a whole pack of biscuits on my own or a bag of wine gums, that kind of thing.
What worked for me was a small amount and often, although there are times when you just don't want to eat anything, but you have to force yourself.
On a 100-mile rides I usually make rice cakes, with bacon sesame oil etc. The salty taste is an absolute lifesaver compared to the near-constant sweet food associated with fueling. I did an Everesting a few years ago, it took me 27 hours and was the wrong side of 300 km. I couldn't face sweet things, and normally I have a really sweet tooth; normally I can eat a whole pack of biscuits on my own or a bag of wine gums, that kind of thing.
What worked for me was a small amount and often, although there are times when you just don't want to eat anything, but you have to force yourself.
Another vote for mixing up other food to provide an alternative to just sports drinks / bars / gels.
Salted peanuts aren't too easy to eat on the move but nice as savoury snack at a garage stop. From memory on the longest ride I did last year (257km / 2800m climbing) I took a pork pie with me and munched that early on. I got a packet of Welsh Cakes later on and also had a couple of cans of full-sugar Coke (such a boost when you're starting to suffer). I know the Coke is sweet but it hits the spot. I also just use hydration powder / tablets in drinks to avoid stomach issues.
Salted peanuts aren't too easy to eat on the move but nice as savoury snack at a garage stop. From memory on the longest ride I did last year (257km / 2800m climbing) I took a pork pie with me and munched that early on. I got a packet of Welsh Cakes later on and also had a couple of cans of full-sugar Coke (such a boost when you're starting to suffer). I know the Coke is sweet but it hits the spot. I also just use hydration powder / tablets in drinks to avoid stomach issues.
Are there stops on the ride?
Obviously very grippy days out but its still worth noting that probably 100km of that Alpine one for example will be downhill, so while it will be slow and steady up the climbs, that will not feel like a day of up and down which typically you get in the UK which can feel like you're on the whole time.
I've done probably 2 rides of 300k, both of which I just ate at each feed station, maybe skipping the first couple. Just normal food, filled my bottles. Though neither days were particularly warm. Much in cycling is overcomplicated and unless you cannot stop (i,e. a race) then I'd always recommend real food vs sports supplements.
I'd also recommend packing a small tube of chamois cream. By the end of one of the 300k rides I did I was using hand soap from the control points as chamois cream.
Obviously very grippy days out but its still worth noting that probably 100km of that Alpine one for example will be downhill, so while it will be slow and steady up the climbs, that will not feel like a day of up and down which typically you get in the UK which can feel like you're on the whole time.
I've done probably 2 rides of 300k, both of which I just ate at each feed station, maybe skipping the first couple. Just normal food, filled my bottles. Though neither days were particularly warm. Much in cycling is overcomplicated and unless you cannot stop (i,e. a race) then I'd always recommend real food vs sports supplements.
I'd also recommend packing a small tube of chamois cream. By the end of one of the 300k rides I did I was using hand soap from the control points as chamois cream.
Edited by okgo on Tuesday 3rd May 14:25
Not sure on the timings but if you think you may start/finish at night (although it’s unlikely being in Victoria in January!), get used to riding at night, in the cold and make sure your kit works, lights, gps etc etc and that you have power banks and can operate them in the dark with cold fingers.
I’m also an advocate of real food over supplements (the clue is in the name), bananas and ham rolls are the food of champions.
I’m also an advocate of real food over supplements (the clue is in the name), bananas and ham rolls are the food of champions.
I've done more than a few rides like this.
If you're already doing 300km a week you'll likely be fine for a single ride of a similar distance. The volume of climbing is more significant than the distance, so I'd recommend switching your weekly goal to elevation rather than distance, if you want something to focus on.
Fuelling is the thing that hampers most people. Keep it coming but don't get too hung up on 80g/hr for a ride like this, frankly. You can train your guts to manage this but that's either a lot of sports nutrition (hard to stomach for 10 hours+) or a large volume of real food. If you're pacing at Z2 you're burning 400ish calories and you can satisfy that demand with real food, that's much easier to tolerate than pure carbs. The main principle is to just keep it coming.
Mid-summer, you should keep on top of hydration as well. It's not going to stop you over this distance but it can make it harder than it needs to be. I like to alternate energy in one bottle and Precision Hydration tabs in another. With fuelling and hydration you can get away with a lot up to a certain duration and then it catches up to you. If you are using feed stations/restaurants or taking breaks then that's a chance to catch up on both, but it's best to avoid running a deficit if you can.
Conditioning is the other big piece of the puzzle. Especially if you've got some long climbs and you're not used to that. You can tough it out and get around a distance like that but it'll be more enjoyable if you've got enough core strength. Planks are an easy way to supplement that. Nudging up your weekly elevation will build conditioning for the legs.
If you're already doing 300km a week you'll likely be fine for a single ride of a similar distance. The volume of climbing is more significant than the distance, so I'd recommend switching your weekly goal to elevation rather than distance, if you want something to focus on.
Fuelling is the thing that hampers most people. Keep it coming but don't get too hung up on 80g/hr for a ride like this, frankly. You can train your guts to manage this but that's either a lot of sports nutrition (hard to stomach for 10 hours+) or a large volume of real food. If you're pacing at Z2 you're burning 400ish calories and you can satisfy that demand with real food, that's much easier to tolerate than pure carbs. The main principle is to just keep it coming.
Mid-summer, you should keep on top of hydration as well. It's not going to stop you over this distance but it can make it harder than it needs to be. I like to alternate energy in one bottle and Precision Hydration tabs in another. With fuelling and hydration you can get away with a lot up to a certain duration and then it catches up to you. If you are using feed stations/restaurants or taking breaks then that's a chance to catch up on both, but it's best to avoid running a deficit if you can.
Conditioning is the other big piece of the puzzle. Especially if you've got some long climbs and you're not used to that. You can tough it out and get around a distance like that but it'll be more enjoyable if you've got enough core strength. Planks are an easy way to supplement that. Nudging up your weekly elevation will build conditioning for the legs.
I did the Mallorca 312 last weekend just past. Had 5 sachets of sis beta fuel, 5 sis gels, 8 cans of coke cola and 2 bananas. Was reasonably warm but not too hot but definitely felt it. Also, feet, make sure you can easily loosen your shoes as I find my feet swell in the heat and can get very uncomfortable/painful. There were lots of people with feet under the water taps at the latter stops. Keep to a nice steady pace, you can always push harder later in the event if you are feeling good. Also, don’t get too carried away keeping up with others. In the 312 less than 25% of entrants did the long route. Very easy to tag on a group pushing harder only to find they are doing 90k less than you.
Thank you all for the comments, this is really great to read and makes me already think about my approach.
To answer some of the questions, the first ride in January could potentially be the hottest. Both events are supported and can have anywhere from 500/2000 people riding with different lengths in routes for people to enjoy. For the Jan event, I will be starting at 4 am, this is to avoid the hottest part of the day whilst in the valleys which will easily be in the 30s but could get up to the 40s. So it will be a cold dark start, then warming up but still potentially cold on top of the mountains. I'll be working through my kit options over winter but having interchangeable items will be key. I recently bought a pair of the Rapha Cargo bibs purely for the extra pockets and I can already see these will help.
I'm planning on jamming my pockets with not only the SIS products but also fruit cake. This is a piece of advice I received from a veteran of long-distance rides and something I will try over the coming months. My current hydration on the bike is 2x950ml bottles. I have one with the beta fuel and one with tablets for hydration. I'll also carry salt tablets to help with potential cramping, I hadn't thought about some additional Chamios cream so I will plan that one in with some in a small bag tapped to the underside of the top tube I think.
I'd like to stop as little as possible, I'm not racing but I also don't want to waste time in feed stations. This will however depend on the heat on the day and the need to top up. I can do ~150km with the 2 bottle system that I currently have so I'll be aiming to one stop both rides. You're able to send bags ahead to certain points so I'll be able to re-stock along the way. I'll just need to plan where.
For those asking, my current FTP sits around 274, hopefully with a planned upcoming build phase via Training peaks, I can get this above 280.
This was a recent climbing ride I did. I was also bedding in a new bike and bike fit but felt alright and capable of still doing more on the day
https://www.strava.com/activities/6994172672/overv...
One thing I do need to address over winter is my gearing. I've current a 52/36 and 11/28 that came on the bike. I'll wear it out over winter then replace with hopefully a 48/30 and 11/30 to help with tired legs and climbing.
To answer some of the questions, the first ride in January could potentially be the hottest. Both events are supported and can have anywhere from 500/2000 people riding with different lengths in routes for people to enjoy. For the Jan event, I will be starting at 4 am, this is to avoid the hottest part of the day whilst in the valleys which will easily be in the 30s but could get up to the 40s. So it will be a cold dark start, then warming up but still potentially cold on top of the mountains. I'll be working through my kit options over winter but having interchangeable items will be key. I recently bought a pair of the Rapha Cargo bibs purely for the extra pockets and I can already see these will help.
I'm planning on jamming my pockets with not only the SIS products but also fruit cake. This is a piece of advice I received from a veteran of long-distance rides and something I will try over the coming months. My current hydration on the bike is 2x950ml bottles. I have one with the beta fuel and one with tablets for hydration. I'll also carry salt tablets to help with potential cramping, I hadn't thought about some additional Chamios cream so I will plan that one in with some in a small bag tapped to the underside of the top tube I think.
I'd like to stop as little as possible, I'm not racing but I also don't want to waste time in feed stations. This will however depend on the heat on the day and the need to top up. I can do ~150km with the 2 bottle system that I currently have so I'll be aiming to one stop both rides. You're able to send bags ahead to certain points so I'll be able to re-stock along the way. I'll just need to plan where.
For those asking, my current FTP sits around 274, hopefully with a planned upcoming build phase via Training peaks, I can get this above 280.
This was a recent climbing ride I did. I was also bedding in a new bike and bike fit but felt alright and capable of still doing more on the day
https://www.strava.com/activities/6994172672/overv...
One thing I do need to address over winter is my gearing. I've current a 52/36 and 11/28 that came on the bike. I'll wear it out over winter then replace with hopefully a 48/30 and 11/30 to help with tired legs and climbing.
Edited by MelbourneWoody on Wednesday 4th May 00:39
Rather than swapping out the crankset it may be worth using a long cage rear mech and switching to an 11/34 cassette. That'll give you almost the same ratio but, as it sounds like your regular terrain is flatter, it'll allow you to easily swap setups in the future, just by changing the cassette.
Gruffy said:
Rather than swapping out the crankset it may be worth using a long cage rear mech and switching to an 11/34 cassette. That'll give you almost the same ratio but, as it sounds like your regular terrain is flatter, it'll allow you to easily swap setups in the future, just by changing the cassette.
It's more about trying to find the most cost-effective solution for that. A new Di2 Ultegra rear mech is around $400 ish plus the cassette and chain. Or I change the crank rings, cassette and possible chain and I'll save ~$200 ish. Haven't fully committed either was and If I can pick up a good second hand mech I may go that but only time will tell on that one.Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff