Daily Mail cycle lane hateage
Discussion
Must be a low-news day...... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10367639/... Though I do feel there often appears to be little 'real world' cyclist input to the design of this infrastructure.
Cycle lanes are generally a pointless waste of money but the alternatives are vastly more expensive.
Ideally they'd be integrated into the road with priority at all junctions but they're often the opposite segregated and you give way to everything from pedestrians to cars.
Those types of cycle lanes are for dads and their 3 year olds on their first bike, assuming their tyres are puncture resistant as they're never maintained, or even swept so all the road detritus will be in them.
Still the councils will be given the money and need to be seen to be doing something green.
Ideally they'd be integrated into the road with priority at all junctions but they're often the opposite segregated and you give way to everything from pedestrians to cars.
Those types of cycle lanes are for dads and their 3 year olds on their first bike, assuming their tyres are puncture resistant as they're never maintained, or even swept so all the road detritus will be in them.
Still the councils will be given the money and need to be seen to be doing something green.
I was thinking about this exact same topic as I cycled over to Euro Car Parts yesterday. Where I live there’s a long stretch of cycle lane that (in theory) takes you into town.
However, the vast majority of cycle lanes (this one included) are absolutely useless. They don’t go where you need, take odd diversions, you give way to cars and pedestrians constantly and every 30 seconds you’re stopping at lights or a crossing. As touched on above, they’re also covered in glass and mud. Some of the cycle paths just suddenly come to an abrupt halt.
If councils and governments want people to cycle, instead of driving, it’s got to be easy, safe, fast and convenient. Cycle lanes are rubbish. I gave up in the end and used the road.
However, the vast majority of cycle lanes (this one included) are absolutely useless. They don’t go where you need, take odd diversions, you give way to cars and pedestrians constantly and every 30 seconds you’re stopping at lights or a crossing. As touched on above, they’re also covered in glass and mud. Some of the cycle paths just suddenly come to an abrupt halt.
If councils and governments want people to cycle, instead of driving, it’s got to be easy, safe, fast and convenient. Cycle lanes are rubbish. I gave up in the end and used the road.
Its not easy being a cyclist. Drivers hate us as we are too slow. Pedestrians hate us as we are too fast. Dog owners hate us as their pets just love to chase things that are going about pedal bike speed.
Personally I'd love to see more segregated cycle lanes like this one. Most of ours are a 2ft section near the kerb with white paint to separate us from the motorists and the parking bays on the kerb side. Using them is like Russian Roulette between angry 4x4 driver and getting car doored.
Best ones are always the hidden away from the road shared paths, old railway lines etc.. no cars, no diesel soot, mostly quiet, just the dog walkers with the killer flexi leads to watch for.
Personally I'd love to see more segregated cycle lanes like this one. Most of ours are a 2ft section near the kerb with white paint to separate us from the motorists and the parking bays on the kerb side. Using them is like Russian Roulette between angry 4x4 driver and getting car doored.
Best ones are always the hidden away from the road shared paths, old railway lines etc.. no cars, no diesel soot, mostly quiet, just the dog walkers with the killer flexi leads to watch for.
I’ve started to notice cycle lanes recently following a recent visit to Germany.
In Münster the cycle lanes are designed into the road network not a misplaced after thought. They are “one way” in the same direction of the traffic, not two way on the side of the road like they are here.
We’ve got a few cycle lanes where I live, one is on a major road in/out of the city that has a 50mph limit. This road has a number of junctions off it, but they are all on one side of the road.
So which side did the council decide to put the cycle lane? - yes the side with the junctions, which means cyclists don’t use it because they have to keep stopping.
The other thing I noticed using the German lanes is that because they go the same way as the traffic you don’t get blinded by oncoming traffic.
In Münster the cycle lanes are designed into the road network not a misplaced after thought. They are “one way” in the same direction of the traffic, not two way on the side of the road like they are here.
We’ve got a few cycle lanes where I live, one is on a major road in/out of the city that has a 50mph limit. This road has a number of junctions off it, but they are all on one side of the road.
So which side did the council decide to put the cycle lane? - yes the side with the junctions, which means cyclists don’t use it because they have to keep stopping.
The other thing I noticed using the German lanes is that because they go the same way as the traffic you don’t get blinded by oncoming traffic.
hyphen said:
Taken from the article:
[Img]https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/01/04/12/52528859-10367639-image-a-54_1641300450073.jpg[/thumb]
Now if that was your loved one inside the ambulance, would you want it slowed down in any way?
No, so get rid of all kerbs, traffic lights, roundabouts and most importantly all the cars that are blocking the road.[Img]https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/01/04/12/52528859-10367639-image-a-54_1641300450073.jpg[/thumb]
Now if that was your loved one inside the ambulance, would you want it slowed down in any way?
It's a nonsense point.
hyphen said:
Taken from the article:
[Img]https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/01/04/12/52528859-10367639-image-a-54_1641300450073.jpg[/thumb]
Now if that was your loved one inside the ambulance, would you want it slowed down in any way?
1 - That type of ambulance does not transport people[Img]https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/01/04/12/52528859-10367639-image-a-54_1641300450073.jpg[/thumb]
Now if that was your loved one inside the ambulance, would you want it slowed down in any way?
2 - There's plenty of width there for three vehicles without having to dive over the concrete divider. There are far more roads where there are no cycle lanes, and Ambulances really do get stuck because of cars
3 - Nuts to your whataboutery.
Car "forced" to use opposite lane for unnecessary overtake...
Regardless, isn't that bike lane in the main photo still under construction?
I don't use most lanes for all the reasons stated above, but another is that even well designed ones seem to have too-regular works of some kind blocking the way at random points. Usually non navigatable due to the curbs.
Regardless, isn't that bike lane in the main photo still under construction?
I don't use most lanes for all the reasons stated above, but another is that even well designed ones seem to have too-regular works of some kind blocking the way at random points. Usually non navigatable due to the curbs.
hyphen said:
Taken from the article:
[Img]https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/01/04/12/52528859-10367639-image-a-54_1641300450073.jpg[/thumb]
Now if that was your loved one inside the ambulance, would you want it slowed down in any way?
Forgive me if I'm wrong as I haven't put my specs on yet, but I can only see cars impeding the ambulance?[Img]https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/01/04/12/52528859-10367639-image-a-54_1641300450073.jpg[/thumb]
Now if that was your loved one inside the ambulance, would you want it slowed down in any way?
millen said:
Must be a low-news day...... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10367639/... Though I do feel there often appears to be little 'real world' cyclist input to the design of this infrastructure.
From personal experience, some points to note about Whitelegg Way.1. I've ridden it many times, all before this cycleway work started. It was never an issue to ride on the road. It was never one of the places I'd have presumed needed such segregated infrastructure.
2. Wimborne Road runs just about parallel with Whitelegg Way, from the traffic lights near Redhill Roundabout to Northourne roundabout. It's a quieter road, residential on one side and tree-filled green space on the other. It would have been a much better candidate for cycle infrastructure. But it is in dire need of complete and proper resurfacing, even more so now after it spent months as the heavily-trafficked diversion route while the new bike lane was built.
3. The Whitelegg build has been in progress for months now. BCP Council say it's finished. The cycle lane has looked about finished for ages, but even after it was surfaced the plastic barriers remained posted across the lane. If no signage, even temporary, was put up announcing it was open, then why would any cyclist risk riding down it to find out they have to rejoin the carriageway halfway along.
4. The raised kerb is continuous save for where there is vehicle access to adjacent property. It is therefore impossible for any cyclist to safely get from carriageway to cycle lane if they missed the entry point at either end.
5. The eternal issue for any cyclist with lanes like these. They always, always "just finish" somewhere. And usually then fail to assist you in joining the traffic flow. So many confident cyclists prefer not to use them. Because by already being IN the traffic flow, they aren't left waiting for a gap in traffic to continue their journey.
The irony of Muppets whining about "fire engines can't get through traffic" is not lost here. You've only to look at selfish tw@waffle parking issues on roads like Iford Lane, a couple of miles the other side of the hospital and a pretty much straight run through on a bicycle, and you'll see that drivers are a duplicitous bunch of asshats... https://www.google.com/maps/@50.734996,-1.7987229,... ...who are more than happy to park on both sides of a road, reducing it to one lane in places AND obstructing BOTH footways. To hell with ambulances and fire appliances using that road "because I need to park somewhere, eh", yet somehow it's the fault of cyclists that those same EVs are struggling to get down a road with two lanes that definitely shouldn't have anything parked in it, ever.
As for the Muppets moaning about the road being reduced in width? Well, yes. If you measure it in feet and inches the carriageway is narrower. But the capacity of the road remains exactly the same because it was always one lane in either direction, and it remains one lane in either direction. Most of the cycle lane comes in the form of extra width taken out of the grassy verges on either side, with only a portion of it "taken away from" the carriageway.
Oh, and whisper it very quietly, but...
If Fire/ambulance/police vehicles struggle getting up and down Whitelegg Way, then perhaps they need to start using the aforementioned Wimborne Road? Now that the temporary one-way restriction on Whitelegg has been lifted on completion of the works, Wimborne Road should go back to being a quiet backwater. Me? If I'm heading to Poole on my bike I'll probably still use Wimborne Rd as a preference, so the cycle lane is wasted on me. Although I'm probably going to take a trip out that way this afternoon so I'll have a look at that new lane out of curiosity. But the first hint of gobby drivers shouting abuse, or even sarcastically congratulating me for using the new lane, and I'll ride laps on the carriageway between the two roundabouts for a couple of hours, just for s
ts and giggles...hyphen said:
Taken from the article:
Now if that was your loved one inside the ambulance, would you want it slowed down in any way?
No. I'd prefer it if they'd zipped up Wimborne Road and rejoined Whitelegg at those traffic lights in the picture. A section, incidentally, where they'd have just as little chance of making headway through traffic despite there being NO bike lane.Now if that was your loved one inside the ambulance, would you want it slowed down in any way?
Then, of course, once across Redhill Roundabout, they'd be faced with the first of many pinch-points on the trip along Castle Lane West, and East, on the route to the hospital. Pinch points which are definitely NOT the fault of any cyclists, or any "bowing to Cycling UK nutters"...
https://www.google.com/maps/@50.7611307,-1.8718973...
That ^^ screenshot is at a quiet time. When it's busy the queue runs right back to Redhill Roundabout with both lanes of the dual carriageway full, and traffic queuing for the red light in the right filter lane. It's about time drivers quit deflecting blame onto other groups of road users and took some responsibility for the traffic congestion that they're not "stuck in" but that they are "part of". Many of these drivers are doing very short journeys, and are hauling around a big tin box containing 5 seats when they only really need one. If the reason folk can't walk 2 miles is because they're cold, they should buy a better coat. If it's because they get wet when it rains, they should buy a better coat and maybe also an umbrella. If it's because walking makes them late, then I'd advise the purchase of a decent alarm clock to enable them to start walking earlier. Or perhaps they should quit whining about cyclists being/causing the problem and join them. Either buy a bike, or, in Bournemouth, download the BerylBike app and hire a bicycle or E-scooter. That way they wouldn't even have the worry about bike theft while they were at work.
I get that some people need a car or van for their trade. But if every other fat lazy doughball got out of their car and into active transport of some kind, there'd be a whole lot less traffic on the roads and those poor, defenceless Ambulance drivers wouldn't have half the problems of getting to hospital in good time as they do now.
That's aside from the fact that I frequently see ambulance drivers being more than a little bit stupid. There are SIX! lanes... https://www.google.com/maps/@50.7455746,-1.8220539... ...eastbound outside the hospital on Castle Lane East. The left most lane is a bus/taxi/cycle lane, and mostly empty of traffic. then a left turn (hospital entrance) lane. Then three lanes straight ahead. Then a right turn only lane for Littledown. The smart money is on the best lane for ambulances going into the hospital being the bus lane which goes right to the hospital entrance. But no, ambulance drivers will insist on using the main traffic lanes, getting themsleves bogged down trying to get through a SCJ in one of the right-most lanes while wanting to turn left. Simply put, they don't appear to be quite as "highly trained" as is often implied.
There's a cycle lane near me I use quite often, from the coast at Ford it skirts Bognor and almost goes on to Chichester. It's actually a shared use footpath at the side of the road, but is well surfaced, wide enough and not overgrown by hedges or full of rubbish and broken glass, and there aren't many peds to potentially have to deal with.
However it jumps from one side of the road to the other, crosses a few lay bys and other junctions, where the kerbs get covered in that special black mud/slime that has to have the lowest coefficient of friction known to man, stops randomly and then restarts 50 odd m up the road, and at one point you cross a flood plain on an elevated section where the wind is always force 10 in your face and the cars are steaming past you at 60+ mph. It then vanishes so you are left either to the left of the white line demarking the left hand side of the carriageway, or braving it out with the cars.
I use it because it is reasonable as these things go, plus the drivers in the Bognor area seem to have the most anger against cyclists I have ever experienced.
However it jumps from one side of the road to the other, crosses a few lay bys and other junctions, where the kerbs get covered in that special black mud/slime that has to have the lowest coefficient of friction known to man, stops randomly and then restarts 50 odd m up the road, and at one point you cross a flood plain on an elevated section where the wind is always force 10 in your face and the cars are steaming past you at 60+ mph. It then vanishes so you are left either to the left of the white line demarking the left hand side of the carriageway, or braving it out with the cars.
I use it because it is reasonable as these things go, plus the drivers in the Bognor area seem to have the most anger against cyclists I have ever experienced.
yellowjack said:
Lots of stuff and he is local so knows the roads...
Out of interest Yellowjack what is your experience of riding the stretch of the B3072 from Avon roundabout? https://www.google.com/maps/@50.7673716,-1.8160148...I ride it regularly and get abuse from motorists almost every time - yet using the shared cycle-lane/footpath is hopeless because:
- there is no easy entry onto the start of it halfway up the road
- it goes nowhere and getting back onto the road is not easy
yellowjack said:
4. The raised kerb is continuous save for where there is vehicle access to adjacent property. It is therefore impossible for any cyclist to safely get from carriageway to cycle lane if they missed the entry point at either end.
That was my first thought too, at the start of the video it looked like a pavement to me so if he doesn't know the area he might not have realised initially and then couldn't get in to easily if he wanted to.Otherwise that does look like a reasonable cycle lane, I hate the ones where you have to stop every 10 yards because a turning or drive way crosses the path and has priority over the cyclist...meaning it's quicker and easier to cycle in the road.
I never really understand the them and us attitude in the UK, so many other countries seem to manage lots of cyclists, and it was a revelation to me moving to one of them. I cycle to work every day, all on decent cycle paths and I don't think anyone's tried to kill me in years. Cycle paths are usually red here which makes them a lot easier to spot too.
jesusbuiltmycar said:
Out of interest Yellowjack what is your experience of riding the stretch of the B3072 from Avon roundabout? https://www.google.com/maps/@50.7673716,-1.8160148...
I ride it regularly and get abuse from motorists almost every time - yet using the shared cycle-lane/footpath is hopeless because:
Oh, that road's always a bit nasty.I ride it regularly and get abuse from motorists almost every time - yet using the shared cycle-lane/footpath is hopeless because:
- there is no easy entry onto the start of it halfway up the road
- it goes nowhere and getting back onto the road is not easy
A very cheeky trick to get across the Stour there - use the A338. It becomes a lane for the sewage treatment works, so everybody joining moves over. It's almost like having a full lane as a cycle lane once you've dealt with the junction. If you go off at the treatment works and climb a fence you then can join the Holdenhurst cycle route.
jesusbuiltmycar said:
yellowjack said:
Lots of stuff and he is local so knows the roads...
Out of interest Yellowjack what is your experience of riding the stretch of the B3072 from Avon roundabout? https://www.google.com/maps/@50.7673716,-1.8160148...I ride it regularly and get abuse from motorists almost every time - yet using the shared cycle-lane/footpath is hopeless because:
- there is no easy entry onto the start of it halfway up the road
- it goes nowhere and getting back onto the road is not easy
It's a hateful stretch, as you say. And difficult to avoid really, as the alternatives, such as they are, are wholly unsuitable at most times of the year (Throop/Stour river path). If there were light-controlled crossings to help you back onto the carriageways where these bike paths randomly end then I think more cyclists would use them. There are several I can think of where the cycle lane is on the carriageway and either the white paint is virtually non-existent from motor vehicles driving on it, or it stops at 'Keep Left' islands and other narrow points, which, ironically, is exactly where cyclists need the most "protection" from encroaching vehicles.
For the most part in recent months I've slung my bike in my car and driven out of town to quieter rural areas to ride. Partly because of my obsession with ticking off VeloViewer tiles, and partly because traffic in Bournemouth is absolutely horrible, with deeply unpleasant drivers willing to risk close proximity to cyclists in order to get to the next queue at the next red traffic light all of three seconds faster.
Where cycle lanes work are routes like the Castleman Trail, and the "cycle greenway" links like Littledown to Kings Park or the "Strada Bianchi" traffic free paths along the Stour parallel with Castle Lane and Iford Lane. Even where you ride on the "quiet road" routes you get abuse. So why bother taking these meandering back roads and extending your journey time only to get abused anyway, when you can just ride on main 'A' roads and get where you are going sooner with the exact same amount of abuse/inconvenience?
I shouldn't be here typing this. I ought to be out riding my bike, but this constant attitude problem from gobs
te drivers chips away. It's about time some of these monumental egos underwent some attitude realignment training. I'm off out now, perhaps I'll reacquaint myself with some of the problem roads I've just mentioned...I vote for yellowjack as Bournemouth Transport Tsar!
In fact, last year I narrowly escaped being nominated by my cycle club to join our district council cycling advisory forum. It sounded worse than stirring the proverbial treacle, given what I heard of the DC representatives' understanding of road cycling.
In fact, last year I narrowly escaped being nominated by my cycle club to join our district council cycling advisory forum. It sounded worse than stirring the proverbial treacle, given what I heard of the DC representatives' understanding of road cycling.
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