New Hardtail Benefits
Discussion
Looking to get back into mountain biking again.
I have an old Marin Rocky Ridge from 2007 which was a fairly decent bike in its day. What benefits would I see getting a new bike for £1500, compared to this one with a new service? The components are all functioning correctly, gear changing is fine.
Are new bikes a vast improvement over this year or will it be negligible? I'm looking to just head into the woodland bear me and just ride cross country, I'm 47 so won't be doing anything remotely hardcore, it's more about getting the miles in.
I have an old Marin Rocky Ridge from 2007 which was a fairly decent bike in its day. What benefits would I see getting a new bike for £1500, compared to this one with a new service? The components are all functioning correctly, gear changing is fine.
Are new bikes a vast improvement over this year or will it be negligible? I'm looking to just head into the woodland bear me and just ride cross country, I'm 47 so won't be doing anything remotely hardcore, it's more about getting the miles in.
Even a modern XC bike have a longer front centre, less steep front end, wider bars, steeper seat tube. All adds stability and makes the bike feel more sure-footed and could well make you feel like a riding god. A modern trail bike adds a bit more of everything.
Modern brakes are the biggest change, hydraulic disc brakes are amazing versus rim.
A good quality groupset years back with new cables and outers wouldn't be much different from new stuff and may even last longer. Just 1x systems are better at dealing with mud.
You can go too far though, I went between a 90s Kona and a modern Scott Scale and it was night and day. Going to a Scott Spark (more trail) it made 90% of my riding dull and I ended up selling it.
Modern brakes are the biggest change, hydraulic disc brakes are amazing versus rim.
A good quality groupset years back with new cables and outers wouldn't be much different from new stuff and may even last longer. Just 1x systems are better at dealing with mud.
You can go too far though, I went between a 90s Kona and a modern Scott Scale and it was night and day. Going to a Scott Spark (more trail) it made 90% of my riding dull and I ended up selling it.
OP, may I join in? I'm in a similar position but budget wise a bit below you. My GT Avalanche Expert (2009 vintage) might be replaced this year for a Voodoo Bizango Pro and I'm also wondering if I'll see any difference or whether I should just keep my GT (also in fully working condition save for some slightly less than brilliant - but still useable - wheel hub bearings x 2.
My GT Avalanche (26" wheel) spec is:
Hydraulic brakes (Shimano wheel gear but SRAM brake levers)
Shimano SLX / XT front / rear gear system
RockShox Tora 302 front forks
Very similar riding and age to you - if I do decide to buy the VBPro, it will be used on the IOW 7 Hills in March this year (possibly...) It will also be a move to 29" wheels...
My GT Avalanche (26" wheel) spec is:
Hydraulic brakes (Shimano wheel gear but SRAM brake levers)
Shimano SLX / XT front / rear gear system
RockShox Tora 302 front forks
Very similar riding and age to you - if I do decide to buy the VBPro, it will be used on the IOW 7 Hills in March this year (possibly...) It will also be a move to 29" wheels...
My current bike is a 2020 trail bike...slacker head angle , steeper seat post angle, longer top tube / reach, wider bars blah, blah, blah. I gave one of my old bikes to my son about 3 or 4 years ago. It was a 2012 26'er. We went out for a ride together last summer and I tried my old bike for old times sake and I honestly don't know how I rode it off road. It felt too short and too tall and just wasn't very nice.
I think if you are going to keep your current bike and upgrade I suggest getting a dropper post for it. This will help massively when the trail points down even if it's not super gnarly (as the kids say (I expect) I'm 51). They are a game changer.
Try riding a bike with current geometry back to back with your current bike and see how it feels. I definitely could not go back.
I think if you are going to keep your current bike and upgrade I suggest getting a dropper post for it. This will help massively when the trail points down even if it's not super gnarly (as the kids say (I expect) I'm 51). They are a game changer.
Try riding a bike with current geometry back to back with your current bike and see how it feels. I definitely could not go back.
Differences between my old 2000 vintage GT Zaskar X and my modern Orange Clockwork:
My hands are now in two different counties and I live in constant fear of hitting trees/gateposts.
I have an uppy-downy seat post, which is useful predominantly for showing off to people that I have an uppy-downy seat post.
I no longer have nicely even close ratio gears.
I run out of gears.
I have a ridiculously short stem to make up for the slow steering provided by the slack head angle.
The wheelbase is colossal, meaning wheelies are harder.
Despite all that, it is a lovely bike to ride and it does go like the clappers, but different doesn't necessarily mean better.
Have a test ride of a modern bike and see what you think. Always nice to have something new and shiny...
My hands are now in two different counties and I live in constant fear of hitting trees/gateposts.
I have an uppy-downy seat post, which is useful predominantly for showing off to people that I have an uppy-downy seat post.
I no longer have nicely even close ratio gears.
I run out of gears.
I have a ridiculously short stem to make up for the slow steering provided by the slack head angle.
The wheelbase is colossal, meaning wheelies are harder.
Despite all that, it is a lovely bike to ride and it does go like the clappers, but different doesn't necessarily mean better.
Have a test ride of a modern bike and see what you think. Always nice to have something new and shiny...
I changed from a mid 1990s Diamondback to a 2020 Voodoo Bizango.
The voodoo is right at the budget end, and doesn't have particularly aggressive geometry at all, and components are the lowest acceptable options I guess.
The difference is incredible between the two. The 29" wheels are great vs the 26", much more tyre choice as well. The longer slacker geometry is great, the wider bars are nicer. Its really hard going back to my old mtb when I do try it.
Does anyone have a more modern bike you can try? Might even be worth renting one for a couple of hours to see what you think? That would be my recommendation to both.
The voodoo is right at the budget end, and doesn't have particularly aggressive geometry at all, and components are the lowest acceptable options I guess.
The difference is incredible between the two. The 29" wheels are great vs the 26", much more tyre choice as well. The longer slacker geometry is great, the wider bars are nicer. Its really hard going back to my old mtb when I do try it.
Does anyone have a more modern bike you can try? Might even be worth renting one for a couple of hours to see what you think? That would be my recommendation to both.
I borrowed my lads 2020 Bizango (29er) when my BB bearings seized on my 2001 Cannondale Scalpel.
Lovely though his bike is, it was great to get back on mine, 26er or not! Probably because it’s what I’ve been used to dor 20yrs, his was very confidence inspiring on a steep, rooty downhill section but mine is more fun.
Lovely though his bike is, it was great to get back on mine, 26er or not! Probably because it’s what I’ve been used to dor 20yrs, his was very confidence inspiring on a steep, rooty downhill section but mine is more fun.
Scoobyshue said:
Bacon Is Proof said:
The wheelbase is colossal, meaning wheelies are harder.
I find the exact opposite. Can wheelie the newer bike far more controllably than the older / shorter bike.To may toe / to mar toe
At least my bike only has half clown rather than full clown wheels.
I've used my 2008 Boardman HT 26er from new and always thought it was great when going along, but initially it terrified me on descents, which I put down to my inexperience. I upgraded it over the years with a slacker headset, shorter stem, wider bars, dropper post, and changed the 3x9 to a 1x11. It was a proper restomod and I became much more confident down red trails. I really thought it was a good bike and I could always keep up with my mates on their modern carbon stuff.
Then in 2021 there was an opportunity to build up a new 29er hardtail, titanium frame, carbon wheels, wider tyres, more modern geometry, etc. It is not only faster everywhere, but it's more comfortable and enjoyable to ride, gives more confidence, more chuckable, more stable even with a shorter wheelbase, and I'm even having to wait for my mates; it's simply a much better bike in every respect.
Things really do move on, so give it a go.
Then in 2021 there was an opportunity to build up a new 29er hardtail, titanium frame, carbon wheels, wider tyres, more modern geometry, etc. It is not only faster everywhere, but it's more comfortable and enjoyable to ride, gives more confidence, more chuckable, more stable even with a shorter wheelbase, and I'm even having to wait for my mates; it's simply a much better bike in every respect.
Things really do move on, so give it a go.
Thanks for all the replies so far, I think the best thing to do is to try one out as some have suggested.
I'm still a little unsure if the improvement will be that much as I never had a problem on this going downhill around forest trails back in the day, it always felt great. I remember flying down the side of a mountain in the beacon beacons over a trail covered in small rocks, hammering passed some guys pushing their full suspension jobbies down. I'm not going to be doing that these days, just cross country tracks through the local forest and maybe some more relaxed trails and bridleways.
The one thing I do recall though is that this bike wasnt really designed for banging the mileage out. It felt a little too aggressive and not a particularly comfortable place to be for 5 hours or so.
On that, are there any particular models you can recommend? I'm completely out of touch with it now, but looking at the models available there are XC, Enduro and Fat bikes that I like the look of. "Trails" now seems to refer to tracks with drop offs and jumps, enduros mentioned downhill? Would an XC or Fat bike be more what I'm looking for?
Edit. Just watched a video explaining the differences. Looks like an XC bike is what I'll need, unless I go Fat.
I'm still a little unsure if the improvement will be that much as I never had a problem on this going downhill around forest trails back in the day, it always felt great. I remember flying down the side of a mountain in the beacon beacons over a trail covered in small rocks, hammering passed some guys pushing their full suspension jobbies down. I'm not going to be doing that these days, just cross country tracks through the local forest and maybe some more relaxed trails and bridleways.
The one thing I do recall though is that this bike wasnt really designed for banging the mileage out. It felt a little too aggressive and not a particularly comfortable place to be for 5 hours or so.
On that, are there any particular models you can recommend? I'm completely out of touch with it now, but looking at the models available there are XC, Enduro and Fat bikes that I like the look of. "Trails" now seems to refer to tracks with drop offs and jumps, enduros mentioned downhill? Would an XC or Fat bike be more what I'm looking for?
Edit. Just watched a video explaining the differences. Looks like an XC bike is what I'll need, unless I go Fat.
Edited by RowntreesCabana on Wednesday 5th January 16:24
RowntreesCabana said:
Thanks for all the replies so far, I think the best thing to do is to try one out as some have suggested.
I'm still a little unsure if the improvement will be that much as I never had a problem on this going downhill around forest trails back in the day, it always felt great. I remember flying down the side of a mountain in the beacon beacons over a trail covered in small rocks, hammering passed some guys pushing their full suspension jobbies down. I'm not going to be doing that these days, just cross country tracks through the local forest and maybe some more relaxed trails and bridleways.
The one thing I do recall though is that this bike wasnt really designed for banging the mileage out. It felt a little too aggressive and not a particularly comfortable place to be for 5 hours or so.
On that, are there any particular models you can recommend? I'm completely out of touch with it now, but looking at the models available there are XC, Enduro and Fat bikes that I like the look of. "Trails" now seems to refer to tracks with drop offs and jumps, enduros mentioned downhill? Would an XC or Fat bike be more what I'm looking for?
Edit. Just watched a video explaining the differences. Looks like an XC bike is what I'll need, unless I go Fat.
It’ll make a huge difference! I'm still a little unsure if the improvement will be that much as I never had a problem on this going downhill around forest trails back in the day, it always felt great. I remember flying down the side of a mountain in the beacon beacons over a trail covered in small rocks, hammering passed some guys pushing their full suspension jobbies down. I'm not going to be doing that these days, just cross country tracks through the local forest and maybe some more relaxed trails and bridleways.
The one thing I do recall though is that this bike wasnt really designed for banging the mileage out. It felt a little too aggressive and not a particularly comfortable place to be for 5 hours or so.
On that, are there any particular models you can recommend? I'm completely out of touch with it now, but looking at the models available there are XC, Enduro and Fat bikes that I like the look of. "Trails" now seems to refer to tracks with drop offs and jumps, enduros mentioned downhill? Would an XC or Fat bike be more what I'm looking for?
Edit. Just watched a video explaining the differences. Looks like an XC bike is what I'll need, unless I go Fat.
Edited by RowntreesCabana on Wednesday 5th January 16:24
Up until this year I was still riding my 2005 26inch hardtail as well as a Norco downhill bike for BPW and 417. I didn’t think a modern bike would be any better. In August I fancied doing a bit of XC along the Ridgeway and a Ragley Marley 27.5 came up on Pinkbike for a bargain price. The difference is huge.
Modern hardtails are so much more confident both going up and downhill. Slack head angles make descending more stable and steep seat tubes make pedalling uphill more relaxed. Dropper posts are brilliant and modern suspension actually works. Wide bars and short stems make aggressive riding more fun.
I’m not too keen on aluminium and was 29er curious so I sold the Ragley and bought an On One Hello Dave with the mental 62 degree head angle. Sold my DH bike instantly
It’s convinced me so much about modern aggressive steel hardtails that I’ve also bought an On One Big Dog, 29er again. Hello Dave for bike parks, jumps and uplift days, Big Dog for trail centres, long days out and taking up to the Ridgeway. I’ve become a bit of a modern geometry evangelist.
TT1138 said:
It’ll make a huge difference!
Up until this year I was still riding my 2005 26inch hardtail as well as a Norco downhill bike for BPW and 417. I didn’t think a modern bike would be any better. In August I fancied doing a bit of XC along the Ridgeway and a Ragley Marley 27.5 came up on Pinkbike for a bargain price. The difference is huge.
Modern hardtails are so much more confident both going up and downhill. Slack head angles make descending more stable and steep seat tubes make pedalling uphill more relaxed. Dropper posts are brilliant and modern suspension actually works. Wide bars and short stems make aggressive riding more fun.
I’m not too keen on aluminium and was 29er curious so I sold the Ragley and bought an On One Hello Dave with the mental 62 degree head angle. Sold my DH bike instantly It’s convinced me so much about modern aggressive steel hardtails that I’ve also bought an On One Big Dog, 29er again.
Hello Dave for bike parks, jumps and uplift days, Big Dog for trail centres, long days out and taking up to the Ridgeway. I’ve become a bit of a modern geometry evangelist.
I've just watched a video of the Big Dog on YT and it looks impressive, gliding along a trail. Very reasonable price too. Very tempted so I'm going to get out on mine for a few weeks and see if I can still do it and how I enjoy it. If it goes well I can see an order going in for a Big Dog.Up until this year I was still riding my 2005 26inch hardtail as well as a Norco downhill bike for BPW and 417. I didn’t think a modern bike would be any better. In August I fancied doing a bit of XC along the Ridgeway and a Ragley Marley 27.5 came up on Pinkbike for a bargain price. The difference is huge.
Modern hardtails are so much more confident both going up and downhill. Slack head angles make descending more stable and steep seat tubes make pedalling uphill more relaxed. Dropper posts are brilliant and modern suspension actually works. Wide bars and short stems make aggressive riding more fun.
I’m not too keen on aluminium and was 29er curious so I sold the Ragley and bought an On One Hello Dave with the mental 62 degree head angle. Sold my DH bike instantly
It’s convinced me so much about modern aggressive steel hardtails that I’ve also bought an On One Big Dog, 29er again. Hello Dave for bike parks, jumps and uplift days, Big Dog for trail centres, long days out and taking up to the Ridgeway. I’ve become a bit of a modern geometry evangelist.
I’ll try and get a photo of the Big Dog up, it’s in a sort of green that looks terrible in photos but great in real life.
They do two different specs, the GX version has better components but the SX is cheaper. Same frame. On One are a bit like DFS, so sign up to their mailing list, they often have sales and offers on. Buying at sale prices the GX is an easily justified upgrade.
Big Dog is definitely more aggressive trail, the Hello Dave is more towards the enduro end.
They do two different specs, the GX version has better components but the SX is cheaper. Same frame. On One are a bit like DFS, so sign up to their mailing list, they often have sales and offers on. Buying at sale prices the GX is an easily justified upgrade.
Big Dog is definitely more aggressive trail, the Hello Dave is more towards the enduro end.
I had the same quandary a couple of years. Had a 2002 ish cannondale hard tail then bought the kids whyte bikes, single chainring, short stem. Got really jealous so went for a carbon chameleon 29. A bit over kill I admit but I couldn’t have 3x whytes in the garage! The difference is night and day, although I do miss the old school element just a bit.
Whether its a HT or FS is just the same, moving to a modern bike is night and day in the main down to larger wheels. Having gone from a 26" MTB (my last new MTB was an Intense Uzzi in 2007/08) and not ridden MTB's for the best part of 10 years to a YT Izzo last year, I felt a huge difference. The newer 29'ers are so much faster ... they roll much better over all types of terrain. You really have to adjust your riding as you carry more speed. The bikes are of course much larger, especially the wheelbase, so you also need to approach sharper corners at a wider angle ... but you soon get used to it.
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