Shimano GRX 2x Why rare on new bikes?
Discussion
Hi
Can someone tell me why there are so few new gravel bikes out there with Shimano GRX 2X groupsets .
They seem to either be 1x GRX or Sram Apex or 105 , why are they selling new bikes with 11 speed 105 , instead of 2x GRX
I like the look and think GRX would be good as it seems more designed for trail riding and they push the 1x but why not the 2x ?
I can only find a very few bike brands selling a new 2x GRX set up , for example this Dolan
https://www.dolan-bikes.com/dolan-gxc-carbon-disc-...
Can someone tell me why there are so few new gravel bikes out there with Shimano GRX 2X groupsets .
They seem to either be 1x GRX or Sram Apex or 105 , why are they selling new bikes with 11 speed 105 , instead of 2x GRX
I like the look and think GRX would be good as it seems more designed for trail riding and they push the 1x but why not the 2x ?
I can only find a very few bike brands selling a new 2x GRX set up , for example this Dolan
https://www.dolan-bikes.com/dolan-gxc-carbon-disc-...
I think it's probably just due to trends. 1x is popular at the minute.
Personally I'd go for the 1x anyway. You can achieve a similar range as the 2x (albeit with some of the graduation between top and bottom removed) and save a bit of weight and a large amount of complexity. You can also the run a dropper using the unused shifter to activate it.
Personally I'd go for the 1x anyway. You can achieve a similar range as the 2x (albeit with some of the graduation between top and bottom removed) and save a bit of weight and a large amount of complexity. You can also the run a dropper using the unused shifter to activate it.
Vitus offer the substance carbon CRS-2 with 2x GRX.
I have owned one for just over a year, excellent bike that is able to run 650bx47mm senderos for the winter with plenty clearance and then switch to other wheels with 700cx40mm set up for the summer months.
I would say 1x is all very well if you only ever plan to use it off road and like plodding. But 2x is way more efficient on harder pack fire roads or tarmac and also for descending faster too! Plus you can run 11-42 or 11-40 cassettes with 2x GRX, you just need to use a 116 link chain and adjust the B screw on the mech. Thereby, you have way better range than a 1x set up and it is faster on road etc.
Don't believe the 1x hype
I have owned one for just over a year, excellent bike that is able to run 650bx47mm senderos for the winter with plenty clearance and then switch to other wheels with 700cx40mm set up for the summer months.
I would say 1x is all very well if you only ever plan to use it off road and like plodding. But 2x is way more efficient on harder pack fire roads or tarmac and also for descending faster too! Plus you can run 11-42 or 11-40 cassettes with 2x GRX, you just need to use a 116 link chain and adjust the B screw on the mech. Thereby, you have way better range than a 1x set up and it is faster on road etc.
Don't believe the 1x hype
gmackay2 said:
Vitus offer the substance carbon CRS-2 with 2x GRX.
I have owned one for just over a year, excellent bike that is able to run 650bx47mm senderos for the winter with plenty clearance and then switch to other wheels with 700cx40mm set up for the summer months.
I would say 1x is all very well if you only ever plan to use it off road and like plodding. But 2x is way more efficient on harder pack fire roads or tarmac and also for descending faster too! Plus you can run 11-42 or 11-40 cassettes with 2x GRX, you just need to use a 116 link chain and adjust the B screw on the mech. Thereby, you have way better range than a 1x set up and it is faster on road etc.
Don't believe the 1x hype
I completely agree! The argument about weight and complexity is lost on me too. And those dinner plate cassettes look hideous...I have owned one for just over a year, excellent bike that is able to run 650bx47mm senderos for the winter with plenty clearance and then switch to other wheels with 700cx40mm set up for the summer months.
I would say 1x is all very well if you only ever plan to use it off road and like plodding. But 2x is way more efficient on harder pack fire roads or tarmac and also for descending faster too! Plus you can run 11-42 or 11-40 cassettes with 2x GRX, you just need to use a 116 link chain and adjust the B screw on the mech. Thereby, you have way better range than a 1x set up and it is faster on road etc.
Don't believe the 1x hype
It could be to do with availability... I tried to replace the chainrings on my GRX400 equiped Canyon Grail (2020 model, don't know if they still offer it new) and was told a January lead time... in August. That might he why manufacturers are offering 105 / SRAM instead for the 2x option
jamm13dodger said:
I think it's probably just due to trends. 1x is popular at the minute.
Personally I'd go for the 1x anyway. You can achieve a similar range as the 2x (albeit with some of the graduation between top and bottom removed) and save a bit of weight and a large amount of complexity. You can also the run a dropper using the unused shifter to activate it.
GRX 1 only has one working shifter.Personally I'd go for the 1x anyway. You can achieve a similar range as the 2x (albeit with some of the graduation between top and bottom removed) and save a bit of weight and a large amount of complexity. You can also the run a dropper using the unused shifter to activate it.
Supply is in short demand at the moment with Shimano
lufbramatt said:
1x12 GRX on my CX bike. Have used it with road tyres for 20+mph average road rides...
Would defo keep 2x on a dedicated road bike but 1x isn't really a huge compromise and has several advantages especially if you ride in muddy conditions.
Are you reporting from the future? GRX is 11 speed. Would defo keep 2x on a dedicated road bike but 1x isn't really a huge compromise and has several advantages especially if you ride in muddy conditions.
Master Bean said:
lufbramatt said:
1x12 GRX on my CX bike. Have used it with road tyres for 20+mph average road rides...
Would defo keep 2x on a dedicated road bike but 1x isn't really a huge compromise and has several advantages especially if you ride in muddy conditions.
Are you reporting from the future? GRX is 11 speed. Would defo keep 2x on a dedicated road bike but 1x isn't really a huge compromise and has several advantages especially if you ride in muddy conditions.
It is a bit weird.
I have a 2x10 drivetrain on my 26” folder, using the older style top-pull CX70 front derailleur, and it shifts the most sweetly up front of any bike I’ve ever owned. It’s never dropped the chain (I use an 11-speed chain).
However, the current fashion is for 1x11 and 1x12 with enormous gaps between gears. Whatever.
I have a 2x10 drivetrain on my 26” folder, using the older style top-pull CX70 front derailleur, and it shifts the most sweetly up front of any bike I’ve ever owned. It’s never dropped the chain (I use an 11-speed chain).
However, the current fashion is for 1x11 and 1x12 with enormous gaps between gears. Whatever.
My bike came with 2x10 GRX (albeit with a FSA chainset). I 'uprgraded' to a 1x setup using the lovely GRX800 chainset but have since put it back - the gaps in the ratios were OK for just gravel but pretty horrible trying to ride anywhere on the road. This bike is for commuting/gravel/light MTB duties so returning to 2x made sense. I also had the LH brifter with the dropper actuator which is a nice bit of kit but again, happy for that to come off!
Barchettaman said:
It is a bit weird.
However, the current fashion is for 1x11 and 1x12 with enormous gaps between gears. Whatever.
Marketing! 1x is the latest fashion, it's the future everyone. Nothing at all to do with it being cheaper to produce and thus more profit.However, the current fashion is for 1x11 and 1x12 with enormous gaps between gears. Whatever.
I've got 1x11 on my mountain bike, doesn't go as low as I'd like or as high as I'd like. Built my CX with 2x11 and still love my road bike with.... wait for it.... 3x10. Never find I've got the wrong gearing, don't need to swap my chainrings for a visit to the lake district.
I'm about to build a gravel/adventure/packing bike and am wrestling with the idea of 2 or 1 x. My MTB runs 1 x 11spd and I did the SDW full on it this year, in fact with the highest 2 gears on a worn cassette with new chain not functioning fully. Essentially 9spd.
I didn't miss the other gears very often and the gaps are manageable, but it's not an ideal set up. Although I wouldn't change it back for MTB.
I think it really depends on what the majority of your riding involves. My 'fastest' bike runs 2x with a 12-25 cassette (Netherlands, so flat) and I don't miss the std 11-28 at all, as how often do you really use the 11 or 28 in the flatlands on NL.
I will be moving to the South Downs area in the next few months, so will build the Gravel bike with a direct mount chainset, so if I wish to run 1x I can, or I can run 2x as well. Or just run 2x with a huge cassette and have the full range I get with 1x and without the less of the gaps of 1x.
My instinct says that for trips with the bike loaded, especially as there'll be a mix of fire roads, tarmac and off road, a 2x set up gives me everything I could need. 1x is a compromise.
My fast road bike is fantastic for finding the perfect on that day cadence, with 1x as you have less choice I change gears less, as the gaps are more extreme and therefore you'll not find that small increment that some days you want.
For all the advertsiing of less hassle etc. don't be fooled that 1x is without issues. Chainline is awful often and it's not without it's own compromises.
I didn't miss the other gears very often and the gaps are manageable, but it's not an ideal set up. Although I wouldn't change it back for MTB.
I think it really depends on what the majority of your riding involves. My 'fastest' bike runs 2x with a 12-25 cassette (Netherlands, so flat) and I don't miss the std 11-28 at all, as how often do you really use the 11 or 28 in the flatlands on NL.
I will be moving to the South Downs area in the next few months, so will build the Gravel bike with a direct mount chainset, so if I wish to run 1x I can, or I can run 2x as well. Or just run 2x with a huge cassette and have the full range I get with 1x and without the less of the gaps of 1x.
My instinct says that for trips with the bike loaded, especially as there'll be a mix of fire roads, tarmac and off road, a 2x set up gives me everything I could need. 1x is a compromise.
My fast road bike is fantastic for finding the perfect on that day cadence, with 1x as you have less choice I change gears less, as the gaps are more extreme and therefore you'll not find that small increment that some days you want.
For all the advertsiing of less hassle etc. don't be fooled that 1x is without issues. Chainline is awful often and it's not without it's own compromises.
waynecyclist said:
GRX 1 only has one working shifter.
Supply is in short demand at the moment with Shimano
My new bike (due end of Jan) is using the Shimano GRX RD-RX812 and is 1 x11. Its paired with the Shimano GRX ST-RX600-R & L shifters. It also comes with a Trans-X dropper which I'm pretty certain is activated with the left shifter.Supply is in short demand at the moment with Shimano
Edited by jamm13dodger on Friday 17th December 15:07
Honestly, I agonised over this looking at the marketing and the BS, and as soon as I actually applied some science it's 2x all day.
"1x is so much easier to keep clean". Yeah right. Because a small front mech, compared to a rear mech, chain, bid round spokey wheels and the whole of the rest of the bike is such a faff.
"1x is so much lighter". Honestly, go on the Shimano spec sheet and check out the weights. There is very, very little in it, especially by the time you factor in a great big heavy dinner plate steel cassette. From memory, it was about 60g for the groupset.
"1x gives you all the gears you need". Make a spreadsheet, get a gear calculator app on your phone and plug in all the numbers. If you are a roadie, put your road bike gears in for comparison. 2x will give you a much lower bottom gear than your roadie and a 1x, ideal for grinding up a steep hill, off road, with your bikepacking kit.
In the interests of balance, if you are planning on just blasting round gravel and singletrack fast and light, I absolutely get the whole 1x thing, and it does undeniably make a prettier build, especially on a trick TI frame. But for me, having the flexibility of having a load of gears that will make my bike into a gravel basher, a tourer, an adventure/bikepacking rig, and by swapping my road wheel across, a great winter/club road bike, 2x makes total sense.
"1x is so much easier to keep clean". Yeah right. Because a small front mech, compared to a rear mech, chain, bid round spokey wheels and the whole of the rest of the bike is such a faff.
"1x is so much lighter". Honestly, go on the Shimano spec sheet and check out the weights. There is very, very little in it, especially by the time you factor in a great big heavy dinner plate steel cassette. From memory, it was about 60g for the groupset.
"1x gives you all the gears you need". Make a spreadsheet, get a gear calculator app on your phone and plug in all the numbers. If you are a roadie, put your road bike gears in for comparison. 2x will give you a much lower bottom gear than your roadie and a 1x, ideal for grinding up a steep hill, off road, with your bikepacking kit.
In the interests of balance, if you are planning on just blasting round gravel and singletrack fast and light, I absolutely get the whole 1x thing, and it does undeniably make a prettier build, especially on a trick TI frame. But for me, having the flexibility of having a load of gears that will make my bike into a gravel basher, a tourer, an adventure/bikepacking rig, and by swapping my road wheel across, a great winter/club road bike, 2x makes total sense.
Ok, I'll bite. I went from an old audax/touring triple to 1x for my new road bike...
I thought long and hard, drew out gear inch charts, analysed my gear usage when I'm riding.
Turns out the gears on the 1x cover almost exactly the range of my old triple.
I don't make the most of the gears available on the triple - I tend to sit in the chainring I'm in until I need to go up or down a ring or two. So I'd never swap both ends eg: 2/4 to 3/2 to 2/5 to 3/3, to go up the box - just 2/4, 2/5, 2/6, maybe 2/7, chainline is making a noise now, up to 3/4 or 3/5. So I effectively get tooth jumps in the same range as the 1x through the middle and towards the top of the cassette.
The tooth jumps are large towards the bottom end, but if I'm there, I probably need them anyway
The upshot is, I end up with similar tooth gaps in the real world.
And it's just so simple. If you want to go up or down gears, you just go up or down. No worrying about the front; which chain ring you're in. It's almost like driving flappy paddles rather than manual.
My caveat is I live in rural Wales, where roads are very rarely flat. I spend a lot of time towards either end of the cassette; I'm never hunting for the perfect cadence on a long flat. And I'm happy riding anything from 80-ish rpm up to 105-110rpm, which might also tend to hide the gear jumps.
So 1x works well for me, but I went in with eyes open and thinking about my situation for it... it won't suit everyone, but it's definitely not a slam-dunk for 2x still.
Hard-Drive said:
Honestly, I agonised over this looking at the marketing and the BS, and as soon as I actually applied some science it's 2x all day.
"1x is so much easier to keep clean". Yeah right. Because a small front mech, compared to a rear mech, chain, bid round spokey wheels and the whole of the rest of the bike is such a faff. Granted, not enough either way to care about
"1x is so much lighter". Honestly, go on the Shimano spec sheet and check out the weights. There is very, very little in it, especially by the time you factor in a great big heavy dinner plate steel cassette. From memory, it was about 60g for the groupset. Yep. Noticeably very rear-biased weight, too, for better or worse
"1x gives you all the gears you need". Make a spreadsheet, get a gear calculator app on your phone and plug in all the numbers. If you are a roadie, put your road bike gears in for comparison. 2x will give you a much lower bottom gear than your roadie and a 1x, ideal for grinding up a steep hill, off road, with your bikepacking kit. Ah, not so much. In fact, it's a single gear inch taller IIRC at the bottom end compared to my old triple (and I put a granny ring on the front of that!). I'm spinning out on the top end around 43mph, which is enough for me
In the interests of balance, if you are planning on just blasting round gravel and singletrack fast and light, I absolutely get the whole 1x thing, and it does undeniably make a prettier build, especially on a trick TI frame. But for me, having the flexibility of having a load of gears that will make my bike into a gravel basher, a tourer, an adventure/bikepacking rig, and by swapping my road wheel across, a great winter/club road bike, 2x makes total sense.
I like my 1x."1x is so much easier to keep clean". Yeah right. Because a small front mech, compared to a rear mech, chain, bid round spokey wheels and the whole of the rest of the bike is such a faff. Granted, not enough either way to care about
"1x is so much lighter". Honestly, go on the Shimano spec sheet and check out the weights. There is very, very little in it, especially by the time you factor in a great big heavy dinner plate steel cassette. From memory, it was about 60g for the groupset. Yep. Noticeably very rear-biased weight, too, for better or worse
"1x gives you all the gears you need". Make a spreadsheet, get a gear calculator app on your phone and plug in all the numbers. If you are a roadie, put your road bike gears in for comparison. 2x will give you a much lower bottom gear than your roadie and a 1x, ideal for grinding up a steep hill, off road, with your bikepacking kit. Ah, not so much. In fact, it's a single gear inch taller IIRC at the bottom end compared to my old triple (and I put a granny ring on the front of that!). I'm spinning out on the top end around 43mph, which is enough for me
In the interests of balance, if you are planning on just blasting round gravel and singletrack fast and light, I absolutely get the whole 1x thing, and it does undeniably make a prettier build, especially on a trick TI frame. But for me, having the flexibility of having a load of gears that will make my bike into a gravel basher, a tourer, an adventure/bikepacking rig, and by swapping my road wheel across, a great winter/club road bike, 2x makes total sense.
I thought long and hard, drew out gear inch charts, analysed my gear usage when I'm riding.
Turns out the gears on the 1x cover almost exactly the range of my old triple.
I don't make the most of the gears available on the triple - I tend to sit in the chainring I'm in until I need to go up or down a ring or two. So I'd never swap both ends eg: 2/4 to 3/2 to 2/5 to 3/3, to go up the box - just 2/4, 2/5, 2/6, maybe 2/7, chainline is making a noise now, up to 3/4 or 3/5. So I effectively get tooth jumps in the same range as the 1x through the middle and towards the top of the cassette.
The tooth jumps are large towards the bottom end, but if I'm there, I probably need them anyway
The upshot is, I end up with similar tooth gaps in the real world.
And it's just so simple. If you want to go up or down gears, you just go up or down. No worrying about the front; which chain ring you're in. It's almost like driving flappy paddles rather than manual.
My caveat is I live in rural Wales, where roads are very rarely flat. I spend a lot of time towards either end of the cassette; I'm never hunting for the perfect cadence on a long flat. And I'm happy riding anything from 80-ish rpm up to 105-110rpm, which might also tend to hide the gear jumps.
So 1x works well for me, but I went in with eyes open and thinking about my situation for it... it won't suit everyone, but it's definitely not a slam-dunk for 2x still.
Dnlm said:
defblade said:
Ok, I'll bite. I went from an old audax/touring triple to 1x for my new road bike...
What are your gears to achieve that? It sounds ideal but very much not my experience. Particularly the 42mph spin out...BikeCalc.com says I'd be doing 130rpm at 43mph, so I guess about that at the top end. It will be downhill, which makes life easier
At the bottom end, I can't remember off hand what's on the old bike, but I've got a dash marked a bit over 25 gear inches on the bit of paper in front of me for that bike (still in the pile by the computer from a year or so ago!); the 42/42 comes out at 27".
It's close enough as the the new bike holds a significant weight, stiffness and accessories advantage - quickish road modern alu bike vs old steel (531c, so not terrible) audax bike with rack etc.
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