New (do it all) gravel bike help wanted…
Discussion
I’m banned from properly applying the n+1 rule, despite all attempts to explain how important it is.
My current stable includes a full-suspension trail bike, a commuter bike with belt drive, IGH, mudguards, rack, lights etc and a crappy pub/station bike. Not enough to hinge a new one in the stable
I want something more road-biased but also something I can take on the gravel around here and even some of the local, flat single tracks.
So I’m thinking gravel bike. The bike needs to be decent on road as well as off and vaguely available. In the area, I can fairly easily get my hands on Cube Nuroad, cannondale topstone and specialized diverge models (carbon and aluminium for all 3). I can also get my hands on things like the Marin gestalt x11. Budget would be ideally around 2000 euros but happy to spend less and could go to 3000 for the topstone carbon 5 if it’s worth it.
Happy to buy online but euro-based so uk-sourced could be an issue.
I’m 178cm, 5’10” so looking at 56cm/M frame probably.
Thoughts?
My current stable includes a full-suspension trail bike, a commuter bike with belt drive, IGH, mudguards, rack, lights etc and a crappy pub/station bike. Not enough to hinge a new one in the stable
I want something more road-biased but also something I can take on the gravel around here and even some of the local, flat single tracks.
So I’m thinking gravel bike. The bike needs to be decent on road as well as off and vaguely available. In the area, I can fairly easily get my hands on Cube Nuroad, cannondale topstone and specialized diverge models (carbon and aluminium for all 3). I can also get my hands on things like the Marin gestalt x11. Budget would be ideally around 2000 euros but happy to spend less and could go to 3000 for the topstone carbon 5 if it’s worth it.
Happy to buy online but euro-based so uk-sourced could be an issue.
I’m 178cm, 5’10” so looking at 56cm/M frame probably.
Thoughts?
I'm perfectly happy with my carbon Diverge. Did the Dirty Reiver on it and it was faultless. Also ride road in SoF on it with only a swap of tyres, and although not as quick as a road bike (though that might just be me) it does the job well enough, even with the 1x11. Doesn't feel like overkill riding the local park trails with the kids on a weekend either, or nipping into town for a coffee.
As usual it would be good to find a bike or two to test, at least for size and fit. I tried a Diverge when looking for my gravel bike nearly 6 years ago but found that a Norco Search was a better fit. And it’s worked well for me on everything from wide, smooth Tarmac to steep, rocky, rooty, singletrack.
Check the specs on any bike too, make sure they suit what you want the bike for - lots seem to come with very wide tyres and 1x gearing. For my riding 35c-38c at 50’ish psi is a sweet spot compromise for tyres as I often mix and match the ride as I go. I use 29” mtb wheels because of the terrain mix.
2x11 gearing gives flexibility. Shimano 105 kit (50/34T with 11-34T cassette) has been perfect - can just about manage the sharp off road climbs, and keep with packs on the road.
Mine’s not the lightest build, and it has too many compromises for many on here, but it really is a great do-it-all bike. I’ve got a Yeti SB5.5 next to it in the garage and I honestly don’t think I’ve got any gaps in kit for the riding I do. A pure road bike would be the only thing, and that would bore the pants off me.
Check the specs on any bike too, make sure they suit what you want the bike for - lots seem to come with very wide tyres and 1x gearing. For my riding 35c-38c at 50’ish psi is a sweet spot compromise for tyres as I often mix and match the ride as I go. I use 29” mtb wheels because of the terrain mix.
2x11 gearing gives flexibility. Shimano 105 kit (50/34T with 11-34T cassette) has been perfect - can just about manage the sharp off road climbs, and keep with packs on the road.
Mine’s not the lightest build, and it has too many compromises for many on here, but it really is a great do-it-all bike. I’ve got a Yeti SB5.5 next to it in the garage and I honestly don’t think I’ve got any gaps in kit for the riding I do. A pure road bike would be the only thing, and that would bore the pants off me.
PomBstard said:
Check the specs on any bike too, make sure they suit what you want the bike for - lots seem to come with very wide tyres and 1x gearing. For my riding 35c-38c at 50’ish psi is a sweet spot compromise for tyres
This is bang right.... because to me, 2x 105 gearing and 35m mm tyres is absolutely NOT the right way to go for a gravel bike, and it won't be anywhere near capable enough off-road.I'm on 11 speed GRX mix, widest ratio casette I can fit, 50mm tyres, 35psi. Thus its actually usable off road. Stil waaaaay quicker on road than anything with flat bars.
Point is - you need to try some, and think about where your going to ride.
Did loads of offroad on my CX bike over the summer on 40mm tubeless knobbly tyres, handled everything I threw at it, loads of fun and can cover loads of distance at a reasonable average speed- easy to carry a 16+mph average on a ride with 50:50 on/off road. No issues keeping up with mates on hardtail MTBs and much quicker on climbs and road sections.
Now it's CX season I'm back on 35mm mud tyres which are suprizingly capable in the right conditions but the lack of volume means you have to be careful over rocks and roots. But I don't find it limits where I can go, just have to be accurate with line choice. 44cm wide bars help with this- wider than my road bike.
1x11 GRX, 42 chainring and 11-42 cassette, which suits me fine and can get up anything but depends how strong you are.
Stick 28mm road tyres on it and it's hardly any slower than my road bike, spins out about 29mph which may or may not be an issue.
I'd definitely be looking for something that can handle at least 40mm tyres and has geometry that has been corrected for offroad use- look for a head tube angle around 70 degrees and a shorter stem than you'd run on a road bike.
My road bike now mainly stays on the trainer and only comes off for roadie club rides, if I go out by myself I'll grab the CX bike for the flexibility of just being able to blast down a bridleway if I fancy.
Now it's CX season I'm back on 35mm mud tyres which are suprizingly capable in the right conditions but the lack of volume means you have to be careful over rocks and roots. But I don't find it limits where I can go, just have to be accurate with line choice. 44cm wide bars help with this- wider than my road bike.
1x11 GRX, 42 chainring and 11-42 cassette, which suits me fine and can get up anything but depends how strong you are.
Stick 28mm road tyres on it and it's hardly any slower than my road bike, spins out about 29mph which may or may not be an issue.
I'd definitely be looking for something that can handle at least 40mm tyres and has geometry that has been corrected for offroad use- look for a head tube angle around 70 degrees and a shorter stem than you'd run on a road bike.
My road bike now mainly stays on the trainer and only comes off for roadie club rides, if I go out by myself I'll grab the CX bike for the flexibility of just being able to blast down a bridleway if I fancy.
Edited by lufbramatt on Monday 1st November 16:20
snotrag said:
PomBstard said:
Check the specs on any bike too, make sure they suit what you want the bike for - lots seem to come with very wide tyres and 1x gearing. For my riding 35c-38c at 50’ish psi is a sweet spot compromise for tyres
This is bang right.... because to me, 2x 105 gearing and 35m mm tyres is absolutely NOT the right way to go for a gravel bike, and it won't be anywhere near capable enough off-road.I'm on 11 speed GRX mix, widest ratio casette I can fit, 50mm tyres, 35psi. Thus its actually usable off road. Stil waaaaay quicker on road than anything with flat bars.
My capability off-road on the Search is limited more by the bike's geometry (weight too far forward going down rocky decents, low BB) and by my fitness - I've taken it around my local mtb circuit and the green/blue lines are fine, some of the blacks are a bit dodgy. It also suits the conditions of the off road tracks/trails which are much drier and rockier than in the UK - I don't need to plug through mud very often. If that changed and more of my riding was firetrails and singletrack with occasional on-road, I'd probably go for a short-travel HT mtb, fit semi-clicks, and change the gearing.
On road the 2x gearing means I can keep enough speed to stay with a bunch, or take on a 80-100km ride without changing tyres/gears/bike.
Mine is a hugely compromised spec, but enables a massive range of ability, often all within the same ride. And that's why I bought a gravel bike.
Which leads to this being the salient point...
snotrag said:
Point is - you need to try some, and think about where your going to ride.
I have a gravel bike running 2x11 with 2 sets of wheels - one runs 32mm slicks for road and the other 45mm Gravel Kings for errrr......... gravel
2x11 was non negotiable as it had to double up as winter road bike, its not as fast as my 'best' road bike but isnt terrible and if youre riding with mates is fine as long as they are on their winter bikes
Off road its a blast and amazingly capable on the other wheels
If I rode exclusively off road Id have gone 1x11, but I dont
I can swap the wheels over in less than 5 mins and same with mudguards
Its really, really versatile and I love it
Also has a shed load of rack and pannier mounts for touring, I have a plan to do the Scottish ferries and King Alfreds way next year. Not at the same time
Cheers
2x11 was non negotiable as it had to double up as winter road bike, its not as fast as my 'best' road bike but isnt terrible and if youre riding with mates is fine as long as they are on their winter bikes
Off road its a blast and amazingly capable on the other wheels
If I rode exclusively off road Id have gone 1x11, but I dont
I can swap the wheels over in less than 5 mins and same with mudguards
Its really, really versatile and I love it
Also has a shed load of rack and pannier mounts for touring, I have a plan to do the Scottish ferries and King Alfreds way next year. Not at the same time
Cheers
The advice to think about where you're going to ride is key here. I bought a Cannondale CAADX as something I could use on the road and on some of the easier off road trails. As it turned out, the kind of trails local to me, being steep and usually quite rocky or rooty, are not well suited to that kind of bike. Combined with my lack of off-road riding skills, it made for a rather fraught first few outings, and it became apparent that it was the wrong bike for the job.
It is now used pretty much exclusively as a road bike, and I bought a mountain bike for the off road stuff (much more suitable). Still, the CAADX works well for the sort of on-road biking I do, and has become my main commuter.
It is now used pretty much exclusively as a road bike, and I bought a mountain bike for the off road stuff (much more suitable). Still, the CAADX works well for the sort of on-road biking I do, and has become my main commuter.
From your suggested usage, I think 2x would make more sense. Light off-road and largely flat won’t need a dinner plate for climbing and even if 1x doesn’t spin out, I think you would find the gear spread less than optimal.
Just my own personal feeling, I don’t use my gravel bike for proper off-road, just light gravel and the crummy tarmac that is meant to pass for roads round here. 2x10 GRX400 on mine and it’s got all the range I’ve needed.
Just my own personal feeling, I don’t use my gravel bike for proper off-road, just light gravel and the crummy tarmac that is meant to pass for roads round here. 2x10 GRX400 on mine and it’s got all the range I’ve needed.
Thanks again for the thoughts. Very helpful!
In the end, I have decided to go for an aluminium cannondale topstone. Carbon was a lot more expensive and alloy is better with regards to scratches from the bike rack and our shed
2x for the reasons people mentioned above, I don’t need massive bail out gears in Holland and I’ll be using my trail bike when I’m doing ‘proper’ mtb’ing anyway.
The topstone seems to have a good compromise between road and off-road geometry and (I tried one out) should be great with some road wheels for group rides with my mates. Meanwhile I can enjoy myself more on the Dutch trails where my 150mm travel trail bike is a little excessive.
It’s also bright orange. Which is the right colour for a bike in this country.
In the end, I have decided to go for an aluminium cannondale topstone. Carbon was a lot more expensive and alloy is better with regards to scratches from the bike rack and our shed
2x for the reasons people mentioned above, I don’t need massive bail out gears in Holland and I’ll be using my trail bike when I’m doing ‘proper’ mtb’ing anyway.
The topstone seems to have a good compromise between road and off-road geometry and (I tried one out) should be great with some road wheels for group rides with my mates. Meanwhile I can enjoy myself more on the Dutch trails where my 150mm travel trail bike is a little excessive.
It’s also bright orange. Which is the right colour for a bike in this country.
Excellent! Might have a look at a Topstone myself for when my Norco finally gives in.
As for frame material, mine is a carbon frame with scratches all over it. It will probably fail terminally at some point, but as long as I’m not going too fast at the time, I don’t think I’ll begrudge it, given the hammering it’s taken in the past 6 or so years. It’s almost like bike frame manufacturers know what they’re doing…
Enjoy the bike
As for frame material, mine is a carbon frame with scratches all over it. It will probably fail terminally at some point, but as long as I’m not going too fast at the time, I don’t think I’ll begrudge it, given the hammering it’s taken in the past 6 or so years. It’s almost like bike frame manufacturers know what they’re doing…
Enjoy the bike
Daveyraveygravey said:
I would have suggested a Kinesis if you were in the UK, they seem to make a lot of sense to me. I have a decent road bike, and an ok but old and cheap mtb for the really rough/muddy stuff. I need to think long and hard about what I want from a "gravel" bike before speccing it.
The list of desirable 'gravel' bikes is huge, I was well taken with the Ribble for example and there are a number of UK makes I would have liked to consider but Brexit made them all expensive and/or complicated. Not to mention the whole Covid issue which has totally screwed up bike supply so I was essentially limited to those makes and models which I could get hold of. That made things sightly easier of course because (for example) Canyon and Rose were quoting 2022 for their first deliveries. None of the bespoke builders had any idea when they would have anything available here in the Netherlands (at a sensible price......) and even Giant were unobtainable. Cube models are vaguely available, as are Specialized. Even Trek are hard to come by. It doesn't help that the Dutch shops are concentrating on L and XL models
Absolutely love my Giant Revolt Advanced 2.
1400 miles on it since mid July including a 62 miler road ride.
Great on the rough canal towpaths near me too.
I’ve kept the standard tyres on but scored a spare set of wheels with the intention of putting some 32c smoothies on them. Not done it yet.
£2300.
1400 miles on it since mid July including a 62 miler road ride.
Great on the rough canal towpaths near me too.
I’ve kept the standard tyres on but scored a spare set of wheels with the intention of putting some 32c smoothies on them. Not done it yet.
£2300.
Get by absolutely fine on 38 G-One Speed on forestry gravel tracks... If you're doing more mud/unsurfaced then yes you're going to need more.
If you want something that can gravel and road effectively, consider getting two seats of wheels that can be quickly swapped without adjusting gears. One set for road, other for gravel. It's my intention as I'm trying to avoid the n+1 trap...
If you want something that can gravel and road effectively, consider getting two seats of wheels that can be quickly swapped without adjusting gears. One set for road, other for gravel. It's my intention as I'm trying to avoid the n+1 trap...
troc said:
I
So I’m thinking gravel bike. The bike needs to be decent on road as well as off and vaguely available. In the area, I can fairly easily get my hands on Cube Nuroad, cannondale topstone and specialized diverge models (carbon and aluminium for all 3). I can also get my hands on things like the Marin gestalt x11. Budget would be ideally around 2000 euros but happy to spend less and could go to 3000 for the topstone carbon 5 if it’s worth it.
Happy to buy online but euro-based so uk-sourced could be an issue.
I’m 178cm, 5’10” so looking at 56cm/M frame probably.
Thoughts?
I can offer no great insight into gravel bikes, but FYI road bikes aren't as "1 trick pony" as you might think. I've been over all sorts - (shallow) mud, rocks, towpaths, off road paths, fire roads, cobbles you name it on a Focus Cayo Evo with 23mm slicks on 50mm deep carbon rim brake clinchers.So I’m thinking gravel bike. The bike needs to be decent on road as well as off and vaguely available. In the area, I can fairly easily get my hands on Cube Nuroad, cannondale topstone and specialized diverge models (carbon and aluminium for all 3). I can also get my hands on things like the Marin gestalt x11. Budget would be ideally around 2000 euros but happy to spend less and could go to 3000 for the topstone carbon 5 if it’s worth it.
Happy to buy online but euro-based so uk-sourced could be an issue.
I’m 178cm, 5’10” so looking at 56cm/M frame probably.
Thoughts?
Now that bike is probably as far from "gravel spec" bike as you can get, but I've never had a ride where I've thought "I really really need a gravel bike" and since personally I'm 95% road 5% "explore", the compromise works better this way (I think).
I think it’s mainly the ability run wider tyres plus slightly not relaxed geometry. Many gravel bikes share similar geo to endurance road bikes after all. They usually have a higher stack so are a little less ‘aero’ in the tuck.
Then there are the ones that are essentially 90’s style Mtb’s with drop bars and the latest generation which are closer to modern Mtb’s but without suspension.
I guess it all depends whether you are 95% road or 95% gravel or 95% singletrack. Or some wacky combination if the three.
Then there are the ones that are essentially 90’s style Mtb’s with drop bars and the latest generation which are closer to modern Mtb’s but without suspension.
I guess it all depends whether you are 95% road or 95% gravel or 95% singletrack. Or some wacky combination if the three.
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