Some things puzzling me re: Olympic Cycling
Discussion
I enjoyed watching the olympic road race the other day, and finishing with a lap of Fuji GP circuit looked pretty cool There were two things I was wondering though:
1. I didn't think professional athletes were meant to be in Olympics. It'd be disheartening having a youngster who's trained for years, shows up and the peloton is basically the Tour de France lineup?
2. Can it cause problems for contracted professionals riders? For example if a rider's country use one brand of bike but their Tour team is contracted to use something else?
1. I didn't think professional athletes were meant to be in Olympics. It'd be disheartening having a youngster who's trained for years, shows up and the peloton is basically the Tour de France lineup?
2. Can it cause problems for contracted professionals riders? For example if a rider's country use one brand of bike but their Tour team is contracted to use something else?
DanB7290 said:
I enjoyed watching the olympic road race the other day, and finishing with a lap of Fuji GP circuit looked pretty cool There were two things I was wondering though:
1. I didn't think professional athletes were meant to be in Olympics. It'd be disheartening having a youngster who's trained for years, shows up and the peloton is basically the Tour de France lineup?
2. Can it cause problems for contracted professionals riders? For example if a rider's country use one brand of bike but their Tour team is contracted to use something else?
There is a heritage of racing on race tracks, even at amateur level. It's still popular here and most race leagues up and down the UK will use a local race track. I think people forget just how undulating they are and how steep they can be. 1. I didn't think professional athletes were meant to be in Olympics. It'd be disheartening having a youngster who's trained for years, shows up and the peloton is basically the Tour de France lineup?
2. Can it cause problems for contracted professionals riders? For example if a rider's country use one brand of bike but their Tour team is contracted to use something else?
1) The line between amateur and professional in Olympic sports is now very blurred. Even minority sports can support an athlete full time through sponsorships, grants etc. Look at the golf, football, tennis etc - pretty much all professionals now.
2) Most riders will have a disclaimer allowing them to compete for their home nation, such as at the World Championships and Olympics. They effectively opt out of contractual obligations and can ride their own machine. Often, it will be a no log bike, with no logo kit, to keep their Pro sponsors happy. It happens even in the pro peloton - kit that is not supplied by a sponsor is used, but the logo blanked out - like a BBC presenter. When Castelli first launched the Gabba, loads of pros were seen wearing it but with the logo blanked or even removed.
Pro athletes have been competing at the Olympics for years in most sports (I think Boxing and wrestling are the only ones where it's still very much non-pro only). Originally it was for amateur sports people only but since the 90s that has been changing, probably due to the IOC realizing they can make loads more money if they get more top names involved.
Interestingly the winner of the women's road race, Anna Kiesenhofer, doesn't have a professional contract, so shake ups can happen.
Tom Pidcock who won the MTB yesterday doesn't have a frame sponsor (Pinarello don't make mountain bikes) so he got to chose what he wanted to ride (a BMC) and they took all the logos off.
Interestingly the winner of the women's road race, Anna Kiesenhofer, doesn't have a professional contract, so shake ups can happen.
Tom Pidcock who won the MTB yesterday doesn't have a frame sponsor (Pinarello don't make mountain bikes) so he got to chose what he wanted to ride (a BMC) and they took all the logos off.
DanB7290 said:
1. I didn't think professional athletes were meant to be in Olympics. It'd be disheartening having a youngster who's trained for years, shows up and the peloton is basically the Tour de France lineup?
The shift from amateur to professional has gone on for decades, I would have thought most athletes are either professional or semi-professional (at least for the "big" nations).When it comes to cycling, you're not exactly going to have a random nobody youngster turn up, if someone is good enough to compete at the Olympics then surely they'll already be cycling on the pro circuit.
No, a lot of the peloton would be very far from world tour standard. There were 120 riders I think, and it was accepted by all the main pundits that a huge number of them would be dropped very quickly.
I think you're right in that they'll be semi/pro's but the gap between someone doing well in local races in a non cycling country etc and world tour is gigantic.
I think you're right in that they'll be semi/pro's but the gap between someone doing well in local races in a non cycling country etc and world tour is gigantic.
Edited by okgo on Tuesday 27th July 09:49
Restrictions are also a thing in a lot of the team sports - Football has a limit on the number above x age. But otherwise not many have restrictions now. The IOC typically takes up an internationals governing bodies rules, but can have some differences (Like radio's in the cycling).
Was involved in the development squads 15 years or so ago, very niche sport but one we medalled a lot in. the UKSport funding was good enough that about 2-3x the amount who were selected for London were 'professional' for years beforehand, purely living off the funding. From comments at the time i think a lot of other nations are even more generous.
Forget where but some pay hundreds of thousands to medal winners too.
How would the country have got a qualification berth if they didn't have the results in the UCI rankings to earn it? that's what I can never understand, just look at Pidcock, his win at Novo Meste only just got him qualified by a couple of points over Romania I think it was. I know we dont have many if any xc riders but with the World Tour surely even the less able nations would be having to hit a certain level of points to send a rider. Although I'm guessing sending a rider is also different from your best rider wanting to represent you.
SoliD said:
How would the country have got a qualification berth if they didn't have the results in the UCI rankings to earn it? that's what I can never understand, just look at Pidcock, his win at Novo Meste only just got him qualified by a couple of points over Romania I think it was. I know we dont have many if any xc riders but with the World Tour surely even the less able nations would be having to hit a certain level of points to send a rider. Although I'm guessing sending a rider is also different from your best rider wanting to represent you.
Yes, but let's be honest, the standard of a 1.2/2.2 in Rwanda is somewhat different to Belgium...Adam Peaty is worth a couple of quid it seems. So I guess there’s a very thin line between amateurs and pro’s.
Not the olympics, but there’s even a major potential change for US College athletes (certainly US football) and whether they can essentially get paid, or receive some sort of income before officially going pro.
Not the olympics, but there’s even a major potential change for US College athletes (certainly US football) and whether they can essentially get paid, or receive some sort of income before officially going pro.
nordboy said:
.
Not the olympics, but there’s even a major potential change for US College athletes (certainly US football) and whether they can essentially get paid, or receive some sort of income before officially going pro.
That is one of the weirdest sports setups - work for free for 4 years (with billions in TV revenue) otherwise you're not getting a real job paying millions in the NFLNot the olympics, but there’s even a major potential change for US College athletes (certainly US football) and whether they can essentially get paid, or receive some sort of income before officially going pro.
snobetter said:
Each country has a limit they're allowed though.
Sorry struggling to explain, there are what 90 riders there this time around (will be evenly split next time with men and women) if the big nations get 5 each, then 4 for slightly less this soon reduces so how many nations are there with riders and then you've got people like Amador as the sole represenative of his nation, how are there nations with worse riders than him still gaining a berth and qualifying. But then that;s the joys of the UCI rankings.Stiggolas said:
Look at the ladies road race. Mostly professionals and van Vleuten / Longo Borghini thought they'd got gold and silver. Turns out there was an Austrian amateur (Kiesenhofer) up the road. Made me chuckle 
The Austrian rider is very much the kind of role model we should look up to:"Off the bike, the new Olympic Champion has a PhD in mathematics after studying at the Technical University of Vienna as well as at Cambridge University before completing her doctorate in Catalonia in 2016 alongside her racing career. She currently works at the University of Lausanne, combining research with teaching."
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/anna-kiesenho...
Like Guillaume Martin think he's currently finishing off his Doctorate in Philosophy. I like the Ag2r setup where if you're a younger rider you're sent to university to study whilst riding your earlier years so you have something to work on when it finishes or if it doesn't work out.
SoliD said:
snobetter said:
Each country has a limit they're allowed though.
Sorry struggling to explain, there are what 90 riders there this time around (will be evenly split next time with men and women) if the big nations get 5 each, then 4 for slightly less this soon reduces so how many nations are there with riders and then you've got people like Amador as the sole represenative of his nation, how are there nations with worse riders than him still gaining a berth and qualifying. But then that;s the joys of the UCI rankings.SoliD said:
snobetter said:
Each country has a limit they're allowed though.
Sorry struggling to explain, there are what 90 riders there this time around (will be evenly split next time with men and women) if the big nations get 5 each, then 4 for slightly less this soon reduces so how many nations are there with riders and then you've got people like Amador as the sole represenative of his nation, how are there nations with worse riders than him still gaining a berth and qualifying. But then that;s the joys of the UCI rankings.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_at_the_2020_...
the tribester said:
And in tennis, with Novak and his 20 Grand Slam singles wins and career prize money of over $150million. There's a right mix of youngsters, plucky amateurs and well paid pros across the sports.
My thoughts are that the Olympics should be the pinnacle sporting achievement, where the best representatives from each nation come to compete for honours in that discipline. So as tennis is an Olympic sport you'd expect him to be there.However, for many sports, a gold medal at the Olympics is not the pinnacle achievement, personally I don't think there is a place for sports like Tennis, Football, Golf, and possibly even Road Cycling at the Games...
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