Aero Bar difficulty

[Dnlm]

Just signed up for my first sprint triathlon, in 8 weeks. A super flat closed circuit around one of Eton's lakes.

Got to improve fitness and learn front crawl, but am wondering about maximising my strengths and throwing aero bars on the bike.

Any views on the difficulty of learning the position in 8 weeks, whether it's worth the effort, and quality of budget bars below?

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/prime-s-bend-clip-on-aero...

Managed 30 min 5k run, 40 min 19.5k ride (circuit with 5/6 junctions), and god-knows-time 750m swim on consecutive days before booking. Figured taking 10 mins of the bike speed means more than just closed road and a bit extra fitness....

[mikees]

No problem with the Aeros, but learning to swim freestyle strong enough in open water with people crashing into you might be a challenge. Is that Dorney lakes? Also get a wet suit

[Dnlm]

Thanks, that's the one!

Friend is more of a open swimmer and figured we'll be ok warmth wise with tri-suits at the end of September? Plus seemed easier to me.

The swimming is definitely going to be a challenge, haven't really done more than holiday frolics since school 15 years ago. considering some lessons.

Also why looking at how to take a few "free" mins on the bike...

[BoRED S2upid]

What bike are you throwing the aero bars on?

I doubt it’s going to make 10mins of time difference in 8 weeks. At the end of the day you’re unlikely to win it so enjoy it and learn from it for your next one. Oh and swim as much as you can over the next 2 months.

[Dnlm]

BoRED S2upid said:

What bike are you throwing the aero bars on?

I doubt it’s going to make 10mins of time difference in 8 weeks. At the end of the day you’re unlikely to win it so enjoy it and learn from it for your next one. Oh and swim as much as you can over the next 2 months.

It's a specialized venge so relatively aggressive position already, but nothing like the same silhouette on hoods. Mostly wondering about the difficulty holding position, and risk of screwing up if learning in London (guess regents park).

Definitely going to focus on swimming but the aim of the challenge is to improve everything .

[Scabutz]

Dnlm said:

Thanks, that's the one!

Friend is more of a open swimmer and figured we'll be ok warmth wise with tri-suits at the end of September? Plus seemed easier to me.

The swimming is definitely going to be a challenge, haven't really done more than holiday frolics since school 15 years ago. considering some lessons.

Also why looking at how to take a few "free" mins on the bike...

I'd re think the thinking about swimming. For a weak swimmer a wetsuit will make a tonne of difference. Far more than aero bars on the bike will.

If you're not used to open water swimming either, non wetsuit swimming will feel quite cold.

10mins off a bike in 8 weeks aero bars or not is going to be a stretch.

Personally I wouldn't bother with the aero bars at all, you've enough to focus on and a decent chunk of training and getting your technique nailed will bring you plenty of benefits.

[Evanivitch]

Definitely focus on the swimming, or you'll panic and you'll be fished out by the rescue boat. Seen people bottle it, even in 400m pool swims.

Agree that wetsuit will help with buoyancy and comfort. And safety.

[Dnlm]

Scabutz said:

I'd re think the thinking about swimming. For a weak swimmer a wetsuit will make a tonne of difference. Far more than aero bars on the bike will.

If you're not used to open water swimming either, non wetsuit swimming will feel quite cold.

What's the impact of wetsuit beyond warmth? That's all I was thinking (and not worried) about. Familiar enough with river swimming, if not trying to get anywhere fast

Scabutz said:

10mins off a bike in 8 weeks aero bars or not is going to be a stretch.

To be clear definitely dont expect that speed increase off bars. 40 mins was just having a go at going fast on normal roads, junctions etc. Would expect a couple mins from practicing distance, couple from not stopping/slowing, then wondered.

[Dnlm]

Evanivitch said:

Definitely focus on the swimming, or you'll panic and you'll be fished out by the rescue boat. Seen people bottle it, even in 400m pool swims.

Agree that wetsuit will help with buoyancy and comfort. And safety.

Ahh buoyancy hadn't even thought about. Got some googling to do.

[Scabutz]

Fast swimmers have a very flat body position in the water. Good swimmers have that naturally through their leg kick and just being able to have a good position.

Poor swimmers very often have sinky legs. That can be due to poor head position, which leads to low legs. Or various other reasons.

Anything other than a flat position in the water creates drag, drag sucks. A wetsuit provides a significant amount of buoyancy that all bit fixes that issue for many swimmers.

You still need to be able throw a good stroke together but wetsuits do have a significant impact for many.

[yellowjack]

I'm no triathlete, but regarding the bike loop at Dorney, here are two Strava segments for it...

https://www.strava.com/segments/8123447?filter=ove...
https://www.strava.com/segments/3742189?filter=ove...

My efforts resulted in 270th/1247 (17.4 mph) at age 46 on the first, and 295th/1774 (18.1 mph) at age 45 on the second. Nothing to write home about, but both set in the middle of 75 mile and 65 mile rides respectively, on a bog-standard Trek Emonda, with no "aero" tweaks, and with the lakeside tarmac open to pedestrians and various other cyclists, both faster and a lot slower than me. And I'm not particularly fast either. I'm sure that with the track closed to other users, and everyone going in the same direction, you'll end up going a lot faster than on a "normal" training ride. So yeah. I'd quit worrying about making changes to your bike in the run-up. Sure, train on the bike, but spend more time worrying about, and solving your issues with swim stroke if that's where you are weakest...

This Strava segment is a triathlon one... https://www.strava.com/segments/1446777 ...but I've not been able to ride that one because the "wiggly" bit is behind locked gates and off limits to the public outside of organised events. But it might give you an idea of the course you might be dealing with.

[eyebeebe]

I have a cyclo-cross bike and a tri bike. For the same effort level to do 30km/h on the cyclo-cross, the tri bike is about 10% quicker. The quicker you go the more the aero position will come into its own. However, you already have an aero bike, so the gains are going to be smaller. At a sprint distance, it‘s not going to be worth the effort.

You are looking at moving from an average speed of 30km/h to 40km/h. Closed roads will help, but if your effort was near the top of your ability (and don‘t forget you need to be able to run afterwards), it is a massive ask in the time you have.

The first thing you need to do is get comfortable swimming. If as you say you need to learn front crawl, get some lessons asap. Ideally from someone who will teach you how to swim as an adult, not a child and with an open water style (no long reach nor high elbow recovery - you‘re just not flexible enough and the water will be choppy). Swimming any stroke badly is tiring and will take it out of you for the rest of the race. 8 weeks is enough time to get an efficient stroke for 750m, so you don‘t feel broken at the end. If possible you want to be in the water at least 3 times a week.

Wetsuits are invaluable for the buoyancy and are available for hire. They are sport specific too, so a diving or windsurfing one isn’t suitable. Watch some videos on how to take them off and make sure that you lube up your joints and contact points so it doesn‘t chafe and it comes off easily. Neck, elbows, wrists, knees, ankles. My preference is Bodyglide. A pair of buoyancy shorts or bottom half wetsuit are also an option - generally it is your back half that is going to be sinking and causing drag.

I reckon if you want to take 10 minutes off your time, you‘ve more chance mainly taking it out of the swim and run with a bit from the bike.

[okgo]

I think you'd want to have some practice. They're easy to ride in isolation. With 100's of other people that are terrible all around you? Not so much. I did the bike leg of a London Tri once and it was quite hairy, lots of erratic riding, huge speed differentials etc between people. Not something I'd ever do again tbh.

Taking it from 18mph avg to 24 isn't going to happen. But you should be able to fairly easily find a chunk with bars I'd have thought. Those segments don't really paint much of a picture. The guy in 2nd on one of the segments is someone I know from road racing, he'd be destroyed in a TT, so actually getting into the low 20's wouldn't be too tough as an average I think.

[Dnlm]

Extremely useful, thanks all.

Yellowjack did you find you could just rock up and ride around on random days? I'd assumed the entire place would be inaccessible and full of our future rulers outside the comp. Would probably go scope it out for interests sake. Thought similar to Okgo though, not as high #'s in the segments as I'd expect. some with very comparable road times on strava (obviously not in isolation etc etc).

This sprint is a tester for whether to train for something longer over the winter, so will get a cheap pair and see how riding them goes, but probably not use this time out.


Otherwise - lessons and wetsuit to be booked tonight...

[CubanPete]

As a few have mentioned, I would concentrate on your swimming ahead of anything else.

[MarcelM6]

I've done 2 triathlons at Dorney

Swim - water is warmer than a normal lake, but still wore a wetsuit as much much easier to swim in with the leg buoyancy that it gives you. Best part about Dorney is that the water is pretty clear and you can follow the guidelines (used for rowing and dropped for swimming?) at the bottom of the lake. makes sighting a lot easier and you should be able to swim straight.

Cycle- totally flat, but narrow cyclepath. 4 turns and a few sweepers. If you can sustain your position on the drops of your Venge I'm not convinced tri bars will make you much faster. I used to have a tri bike, and because of the extreme position was not able to put down as much power as on my aero road bike so was slower on a tri bike. Depends how flexible (stretchy) you are. Don't forget about the mental fatigue of a twitchier position and not really long enough straights to relax on. You also will not be able to change gears on tri bar extensions on your Venge so you will most likely be changing hand positions at every turn and possibly when overtaking. Lose a lot of aero benefit.

Run - nothing much to say. It's a run, quite dull.

Great place to do your first tri.

[MarcelM6]

Forgot to say - practise the transitions. It's the 4th discipline of triathlon. And will save you several minutes if you do it well.

Learn to unzip wetsuit while running to bike and take off quickly. The wetter you are the easier it is.
Make sure you know where your bike is in transition - I have seen many people running to and fro because they couldn't remember.
Try cycling and running shoes without socks. getting socks on wet feet takes forever
Swim in your cycling gear, run in your cycling gear. Just put the wetsuit on over it.
Buy a race belt you can clip your number to - easier to turn between cycle and run

if you're confident you can put your shoes on the pedals, run barefoot and do a running jump on to your bike after the transition line but I'd probably avoid that during the first attempt.

[yellowjack]

Dnlm said:

Extremely useful, thanks all.

Yellowjack did you find you could just rock up and ride around on random days? I'd assumed the entire place would be inaccessible and full of our future rulers outside the comp. Would probably go scope it out for interests sake. Thought similar to Okgo though, not as high #'s in the segments as I'd expect. some with very comparable road times on strava (obviously not in isolation etc etc).

This sprint is a tester for whether to train for something longer over the winter, so will get a cheap pair and see how riding them goes, but probably not use this time out.


Otherwise - lessons and wetsuit to be booked tonight...

According to their website there's no public access currently... https://www.dorneylake.co.uk/access.aspx ...but it always used to be open to the public except when in use for events. There was even a car park or two. The short section between the boathouse/clubhouse and the lake you're supposed to not ride, but I think going around the back was OK.

They seem to have changed the wording on their rules too. It used (I'm pretty sure) to say "no cycle race training". But I think they had issues with people riding like demons around the lake then saying they weren't "race training" because they didn't do races. Now it forbids cycle training. And you can see why - they want to make it safe for kids and oldies to just trundle around and enjoy the site without "TdF wannabes" (like me? ) tearing up the place.

I never drove up there, just rode all the way. There are plenty of off-road waterside cycle facilities around the area, although not all are ideal for a road bike. If you aren't too far away it may be worth a look. There's Dorney Court garden centre and cafe just along the road so it's not a wasted trip if Eton have locked the gates. And there's also the 1948 Olympic Road Race lap inside (and partially on the road outside) Windsor Great Park too.

[Dnlm]

MarcelM6 said:

I've done 2 triathlons at Dorney

Swim - water is warmer than a normal lake, but still wore a wetsuit as much much easier to swim in with the leg buoyancy that it gives you. Best part about Dorney is that the water is pretty clear and you can follow the guidelines (used for rowing and dropped for swimming?) at the bottom of the lake. makes sighting a lot easier and you should be able to swim straight.

Cycle- totally flat, but narrow cyclepath. 4 turns and a few sweepers. If you can sustain your position on the drops of your Venge I'm not convinced tri bars will make you much faster. I used to have a tri bike, and because of the extreme position was not able to put down as much power as on my aero road bike so was slower on a tri bike. Depends how flexible (stretchy) you are. Don't forget about the mental fatigue of a twitchier position and not really long enough straights to relax on. You also will not be able to change gears on tri bar extensions on your Venge so you will most likely be changing hand positions at every turn and possibly when overtaking. Lose a lot of aero benefit.

Run - nothing much to say. It's a run, quite dull.

Great place to do your first tri.

Ahh super useful. Really does seem the combo of short distance, turns and others makes bars not worth it, regardless of the possible too short learning time.

Planning some embarrassing transition practice at the local lake in a couple weeks. I've seen the shoes on bike and no way! Clipping in is hard enough , but might have a go at sockless.

[Dnlm]

yellowjack said:

According to their website there's no public access currently...

Makes sense. Mixed used cycle/walk areas really are the worst, for everyone.

yellowjack said:

There's Dorney Court garden centre and cafe just along the road so it's not a wasted trip if Eton have locked the gates. And there's also the 1948 Olympic Road Race lap inside (and partially on the road outside) Windsor Great Park too.

Did ride to/round Windsor years ago but always lived east so the London miles are too dull to revisit. It's a lovely place.