How much faster is a TT bike?

[Hard-Drive]

I did my first ever TT yesterday. I'm a mildly overweight, late 40s MAMIL pie and alcohol enthusiast, riding around twice a week. It was a 9.5 mile course which I did in 27.35, averaging 20.8mph, which to be honest I was really happy with, I don't think I've ever averaged over 20mph even on an (admittedly much longer) club ride.

I did it on a disc braked carbon endurance road bike (Canyon Endurace) but obviously some of the guys were on TT bikes with aero bars. Needless to say I was perusing FB marketplace last night, looking at TT bikes purely out of interest, with various older offerings from PX available for about £1500.

My question...all things being equal, on that course, how much faster is a TT bike? There was one biggish hill where I was on the small ring and fairly low on the cassette too. Am I right in saying that the TT bike is probably a slower climber, so in the grand scheme of things I'd have lost time on the climb but made it up on the flat and may have ended up level?

Clearly if I was serious about doing it again I need to lose the enthusiasm for pies and alcohol, and concentrate on making the body rather than the bike, more aero. But I'm interested to know...

[saladdays]

https://cyclingtips.com/2010/04/biggest-bang-for-y...

[kiseca]

Hard-Drive said:

Clearly if I was serious about doing it again I need to lose the enthusiasm for pies and alcohol, and concentrate on making the body rather than the bike, more aero. But I'm interested to know...

I can't answer your actual question, but I hear this a lot. Our body is a constant. No matter what bike you plonk yourself on at any given moment, if it's a faster bike, you'll go faster. That's as true now as it would be in 2 years time if you've lost 30kg of pie and alcohol fat and trained like an olympic cyclist.

So my reasoning is, if you buy now, you benefit now and later

[CharlieAlphaMike]

I believe the outright lap record around the TT Course is 135.452 MPH so you're obviously not trying hard enough

[Matt_N]

Similar to the post above, if you’re considering it just go for it. Riding a TT bike effectively is not just a question of getting one, setting it up and off you go, it takes time to get the most from one.

Some actually go slower initially because the position is different, the bike handles differently and it takes work to be able to output the same as you can on a road bike.

A really rough guess would be between 1-2mph avg improvement, then add in aero helmet, aero jersey or skinsuit, position tweak and wheel choice and you then really start to see the gains.

Aero trumps weight up to about 8% gradient so if you can hold the position and power you’d be quicker on a TT bike but as you see in pro races the decision to switch from a TT bike to road bike for climbs does happen.

First step might be clip on aero bars and get the saddle forward and see if you can achieve a good TT position.

[Mastodon2]

Matt_N said:

First step might be clip on aero bars and get the saddle forward and see if you can achieve a good TT position.

Might be worth trying a short nose TT-style saddle if you're going to try this, I have aero bars on that I put on my road bike sometimes and getting into an aero position puts me right on the tip of the saddle and jt is exceedingly uncomfortable. A short nose saddle completely eliminates that discomfort, but it's admittedly a personal thing.

[anonymous-user]

In my humble experience......A TT bike does make a difference but you need to be strong in that position which is markedly different from a road bike and uses the same muscles but in a different way. On a road bike, you can jump out of the saddle and use a longer leg stroke when you need to, on a TT bike that power just has to come whilst still stationed on the saddle. Yes people do get out of the saddle on a TT bike but it’s not comfy for a long period. I thought I’d be fast because I’m ok at track sprints where the power (albeit higher for much less time) comes whilst seated but I was rubbish. In short your body needs a long time to become faster on one...

I did some FTP trials on zwift and found I could hold higher power for longer on my road bike than my TT bike, both fit me well, but the power was much easier to produce on the road bike drops compared to the TT bike extensions. The difference was about 80 watts over 20 minutes.

Loads of bargains on www.timetriallingforum.co.uk you’d be better getting a good second hand bike than a new Planet X,

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 1st July 21:05

[keith2.2]

Honestly, they’re much faster.

I have an aero road bike (Bianchi XR4 on Mavic Cosmics) and a Tri bike (Cube Aerium SLT running Aerocoach Titan front and Aeox Ultra rear). As has been mentioned, you produce less power on the TT bike because of the position, but cruising pace on the TT bike is effort pace on the road bike. Once you’re used to it, the TT bike is supremely comfortable as well, so as the distance increases I’d say your speed drops more slowly on the TT.

Honestly though right now, you’ll find that 150 a month for a few months with someone like Matt Bottrill (full disclosure, I’ve been coached by them for a couple of years now) will see you make WAY bigger gains than spending a much larger amount on a TT bike and all the accoutrements.

[outnumbered]

Our club TTs this year have more people doing them on road bikes than TT bikes. You can buy more speed with a TT bike, but since you’re really competing against yourself, I’d somewhat question the point. Unless you’re likely to take it further and ride Opens,

[Lovey1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGvH8b6FSz4

[andyA700]

When I started racing in the late 70's, there was no aero gear. Then in the early 80's a guy called Dave Lloyd started using aero tubing, different bar designs, narrow tyres/tubulars, full skinsuit and helmet.
I tried to make a comeback in the early to mid 90's, by which time the "aero wars" had started with all sorts of dubious tri bar setups, some looking like the radar antennae on a JU88.
Anyway, took my TT bike out on the local bypass one night after fitting 3TTT Bioarms. After doing some 1 mile intervals @26mph on the drops, I decided it was time to try the Bioarms. It was at first a bit intimidating because the position was so different. It wasn't as unstable as I had feared and I was soon doing intervals of between 28/29mph.
So, I reckon the major gains are - tribars, skinsuit, efficient and comfortable position, 30/40mm deep rim front, disc or trispoke rear, aero lid.

[Some Gump]

Op,

As a counter opinion: it doesnt matter.

Imo a tt is you vs you. When i was doing them, the competitos each week varied so much. some were on aero, some on road bikes, some were.young, others old etc etc. Hell, i even raced against a world champion and multiple gold.medalist (colin only has one leg but jesus whst a machine he is!!)
My PB wouldn't amaze anyone, it's 28.32 for a 10m out and back course. Set on a 550 quid bike, with mudguards, tool kit and lights etc. My jersey was a tad baggy, but speed isn't worth being out on the register and there's laws to protect the innocent from seeing a body like mine shrink wrapped like a tesco chicken. That pb time was enough for maybe 2nd or 3rd last on the day. Winners would have been sub 20 with full sperm helmet / tt bike / didnt come to the pub afterwards.

I could have improved my time a lot by getting the gear. Might have moved up the field a chunk. What would i have achieved though? Id simply be the slowest bloke on a tt bike, unable to claim any sort of victory over the other blokes i might be faster than who are on normal road bikes. I'd have dropped 2k on gear and achieved.. Well nothing i guess? I'd still be in the same pub chatting to the same blokes, all of whom were.always seeking to compare performance on the day to heir own pb's and congratulate each other and seldom did anyone get competitive / gloaty about who beat who.

So IMO if you want a tt bike, if you'll enjoy it, get one. riding is fun But don't get one purely to buy speed unless you're doing club 10's on a normal bike sub 22 mins already. After all, if you're not racing for the podium where everyone has the cool gear, then beating the (on my course at least) guys at that normal road bike ceiling by outspending them seems a bit like a hollow victory!

[Randy Winkman]

andyA700 said:

When I started racing in the late 70's, there was no aero gear. Then in the early 80's a guy called Dave Lloyd started using aero tubing, different bar designs, narrow tyres/tubulars, full skinsuit and helmet.
I tried to make a comeback in the early to mid 90's, by which time the "aero wars" had started with all sorts of dubious tri bar setups, some looking like the radar antennae on a JU88.
Anyway, took my TT bike out on the local bypass one night after fitting 3TTT Bioarms. After doing some 1 mile intervals @26mph on the drops, I decided it was time to try the Bioarms. It was at first a bit intimidating because the position was so different. It wasn't as unstable as I had feared and I was soon doing intervals of between 28/29mph.
So, I reckon the major gains are - tribars, skinsuit, efficient and comfortable position, 30/40mm deep rim front, disc or trispoke rear, aero lid.

I think that this is helpful advice. As someone who was a fairly serious triathlete in the 90s and now cycles for fun, my main tips are:

Being in good shape is much more important to going fast than a fancy bike is.

Having a bike that fits well and is in good condition is important.

Tri-bars (they will always be tri-bars for me) are a benefit. Not only do they make you more streamlined but once you get used to them conventional drop bars just seem like a rather silly and uncomfortable way of trying to go fast.

By the way, I did my fastest ever Olympic distance triathlon on my training bike. But it did meet the criteria above i.e. it fitted well, was in good condition and had suitable tri-bars.

[Ntv]

As others have said:

- fitness
- position
- skinsuit
- aerobars and practice on these
- deep front wheel
- disc wheel
- aero frame

All of this makes more difference the higher the speed is, and the more wind you have to push through.

On a flat fast road that's not too twisty it makes a big difference

[Randy Winkman]

Ntv said:

As others have said:

- fitness
- position
- skinsuit
- aerobars and practice on these
- deep front wheel
- disc wheel
- aero frame

All of this makes more difference the higher the speed is, and the more wind you have to push through.

On a flat fast road that's not too twisty it makes a big difference

The point about higher speed is a good one. A pro doing 30mph is going to get way more benefit from aero stuff than I am doing 15mph.

[okgo]

Ntv said:

As others have said:

- fitness
- position
- skinsuit
- aerobars and practice on these
- deep front wheel
- disc wheel
- aero frame

All of this makes more difference the higher the speed is, and the more wind you have to push through.

On a flat fast road that's not too twisty it makes a big difference

Which might well be why many people say not to bother until you're going more quickly. At 20mph not only do TT bikes just feel a bit crap to ride, but it also won't make anywhere near as much difference as it would at 30mph. There's almost no road that a TT bike isn't quicker on assuming not up steep climbs as the bikes do weigh more generally, but they're not all that enjoyable unless you're pelting along IMO.

[addey]

I've done a few TTs on my (aero) road bike this year, I reckon I'm giving away 2mins or so to the TT bikes over 10miles. I did one event on a fast course and came 44th, yet my power output was only beaten by 6 or 7 others! Obviously many of those riders will compromise power to gain aero, but even so it shows how much more efficient the TT bike position is.

[andyA700]

addey said:

I've done a few TTs on my (aero) road bike this year, I reckon I'm giving away 2mins or so to the TT bikes over 10miles. I did one event on a fast course and came 44th, yet my power output was only beaten by 6 or 7 others! Obviously many of those riders will compromise power to gain aero, but even so it shows how much more efficient the TT bike position is.

Back in 1981 in my third year cycling, I set my 10 mile PB @ 21' 50s (I believe Sean Yates won that race with a time of around 20m 30s), using a basic, light road bike with 24 spoke wheels and light tubulars. I had a skinsuit and a Brancale non aero helmet and I was using Duegi shoes with adjustable plates, with toeclips and straps. Fast forward 15 years to 1997, I was using a basic frame (non aero) with Campag disc rear, Mavic deep front, Look pedals, Bio Arms, skinsuit and aero helmet. I did half a dozen times around the 22m 50s mark.
It makes me wonder what my early twenties self could have managed with all the modern gear.

[Scabutz]

Randy Winkman said:

Ntv said:

As others have said:

- fitness
- position
- skinsuit
- aerobars and practice on these
- deep front wheel
- disc wheel
- aero frame

All of this makes more difference the higher the speed is, and the more wind you have to push through.

On a flat fast road that's not too twisty it makes a big difference

The point about higher speed is a good one. A pro doing 30mph is going to get way more benefit from aero stuff than I am doing 15mph.

Drag squares with speed of course, so the fast you go the more energy required to push the air out the way and the lower drag you have the less energy. But if you are slower you are out there longer, so having aerodynamics still benefits the slower ride because whilst the overall aerodynamic benefit is less, they get the benefit for longer

[Randy Winkman]

Scabutz said:

Randy Winkman said:

Ntv said:

As others have said:

- fitness
- position
- skinsuit
- aerobars and practice on these
- deep front wheel
- disc wheel
- aero frame

All of this makes more difference the higher the speed is, and the more wind you have to push through.

On a flat fast road that's not too twisty it makes a big difference

The point about higher speed is a good one. A pro doing 30mph is going to get way more benefit from aero stuff than I am doing 15mph.

Drag squares with speed of course, so the fast you go the more energy required to push the air out the way and the lower drag you have the less energy. But if you are slower you are out there longer, so having aerodynamics still benefits the slower ride because whilst the overall aerodynamic benefit is less, they get the benefit for longer

That's very good point but we also have to take into account the costs of using a TT bike. If there is less aero benefit is the slower rider going to be any quicker at all on a bike if they are less comfortable and the bike weighs more?