Endurance ride nutrition
Discussion
I'm doing JOGLE in a couple of months and I had a couple of realisations on this ride, mainly that my perception of nutrition isn't where it needs to be.
I did 100 miles on Sunday with 6000ft of climbing.
Nothing crazy but a hard enough stint and fair representation of a JOGLE day.
(I am going to struggle to get the back to back 100 mile day training in which is a real worry)
On Sunday I had a large bowl of muesli and banana before I started and then ate peanut butter sandwiches or malt loaf with a couple of cliff bars thrown in.
I was eating and drinking at regular intervals but got to the point where I knew I needed to eat but felt really sick.
My energy levels dropped about 65 miles in and I had a real struggle until about 85miles.
I def burnt a few matches in the first 65 thinking I was stronger than I was but I need to address nutrition as the thought of doing it day after day seems a stretch at the moment.
Any thoughts/advice would be great.
I did 100 miles on Sunday with 6000ft of climbing.
Nothing crazy but a hard enough stint and fair representation of a JOGLE day.
(I am going to struggle to get the back to back 100 mile day training in which is a real worry)
On Sunday I had a large bowl of muesli and banana before I started and then ate peanut butter sandwiches or malt loaf with a couple of cliff bars thrown in.
I was eating and drinking at regular intervals but got to the point where I knew I needed to eat but felt really sick.
My energy levels dropped about 65 miles in and I had a real struggle until about 85miles.
I def burnt a few matches in the first 65 thinking I was stronger than I was but I need to address nutrition as the thought of doing it day after day seems a stretch at the moment.
Any thoughts/advice would be great.
I did JoGLE last year, in September.
Here is what my fueling was for each day
Breakfast - Porridge and a cup of tea
Lunch - I actually stopped and ate lunch, sometimes I just had sandwiches, or bananas or pasties / pork pie, cakes crisps, anything that I really fancied that
I felt like eating.
Evening Meal - Pasta based meals mostly, one night I had pizza which really boosted my Morale !
I took with me in my jersey pockets a selection of different flavoured Gel's mostly Torq and High 5 as they don't upset my stomach. In my bottles I had Torq energy drink in one and just squash in the other. Also I had some small slabs of Soreen with me in my pocket as well.
I had some "for Goodness shakes" recovery drinks with me and had one of those as soon as I stopped at the end of each day.
You want to try and vary what you're eating as you'll soon get tired of eating the same things each day ( or I found I did anyway ) You'll also want test / try your food choices gels etc before you your JoGLE, you don't want to depart on day 1 and then find what you've chosen to take with you upsets your stomach and i find that for example, Science in Sport products to upset my stomach...
I had a support vehicle with me that I met up with at around lunchtime each day and then we stayed on campsites in our Motorhome so I had facilities to cook meals with, also as I had a support vehicle I didn't have to carry camping gear etc etc.
I found the hot cooked meal at the end of each day really lifted my morale, so I would plan if you can to do that, also I think don't underestimate how much you need to eat in terms of calories, and I found if I didn't fuel properly it affected me for a couple of days afterwards. Fuel and hydrate at the end of each day and make sure you keep hydrated during the day.
Also on your ride itself, don't rush it, try and enjoy the experience, my first couple of days I pushed to hard and I should have held my pace back and kept something in the tank for later on in my ride.
Which route are you taking ? Scotland for me was the high point !
I ran a facebook page where I wrote a blog of my training and a blog of each day. Link below if you fancy a read
https://www.facebook.com/Daves-JOGLE-In-Memory-of-...
Here is what my fueling was for each day
Breakfast - Porridge and a cup of tea
Lunch - I actually stopped and ate lunch, sometimes I just had sandwiches, or bananas or pasties / pork pie, cakes crisps, anything that I really fancied that
I felt like eating.
Evening Meal - Pasta based meals mostly, one night I had pizza which really boosted my Morale !
I took with me in my jersey pockets a selection of different flavoured Gel's mostly Torq and High 5 as they don't upset my stomach. In my bottles I had Torq energy drink in one and just squash in the other. Also I had some small slabs of Soreen with me in my pocket as well.
I had some "for Goodness shakes" recovery drinks with me and had one of those as soon as I stopped at the end of each day.
You want to try and vary what you're eating as you'll soon get tired of eating the same things each day ( or I found I did anyway ) You'll also want test / try your food choices gels etc before you your JoGLE, you don't want to depart on day 1 and then find what you've chosen to take with you upsets your stomach and i find that for example, Science in Sport products to upset my stomach...
I had a support vehicle with me that I met up with at around lunchtime each day and then we stayed on campsites in our Motorhome so I had facilities to cook meals with, also as I had a support vehicle I didn't have to carry camping gear etc etc.
I found the hot cooked meal at the end of each day really lifted my morale, so I would plan if you can to do that, also I think don't underestimate how much you need to eat in terms of calories, and I found if I didn't fuel properly it affected me for a couple of days afterwards. Fuel and hydrate at the end of each day and make sure you keep hydrated during the day.
Also on your ride itself, don't rush it, try and enjoy the experience, my first couple of days I pushed to hard and I should have held my pace back and kept something in the tank for later on in my ride.
Which route are you taking ? Scotland for me was the high point !
I ran a facebook page where I wrote a blog of my training and a blog of each day. Link below if you fancy a read
https://www.facebook.com/Daves-JOGLE-In-Memory-of-...
Edited by fizzwheel on Tuesday 27th April 10:38
Nutrition is somewhat personal - personally I mostly shrug and eat as I like, but I have the kind of stomach that can eat a bacon & egg roll at the start of a 10k running race. Totally unhelpful comment I know, but expect as much different guidance as you get responses.
More encouragingly, I suspect you'll find doing lejog is rather different to training rides. I suspect you have limited time for your training ride, and are probably doing it with limited stops, etc. Burning matches in your first 65 doesn't sound promising either.
When all you have to do is ride 100 miles and have the entire day, then you're probably having a sit down/stop lunch, etc. Basically take as long as you have to do the miles, not do them as fast as possible. Intensity is about the single biggest arbiter of how much you can eat/how well you can absorb food. I doubt you'll have too much problem eating whatever if you have all day and some stops to do the distance.
As for backing up mulitple days, it's no different to pacing a single ride. Don't start too hard, keep it ticking. The 2nd, 3rd days will probably bite, and it'll take a little while to get warmed up at the start of each day, but then you just keep ticking along.
More encouragingly, I suspect you'll find doing lejog is rather different to training rides. I suspect you have limited time for your training ride, and are probably doing it with limited stops, etc. Burning matches in your first 65 doesn't sound promising either.
When all you have to do is ride 100 miles and have the entire day, then you're probably having a sit down/stop lunch, etc. Basically take as long as you have to do the miles, not do them as fast as possible. Intensity is about the single biggest arbiter of how much you can eat/how well you can absorb food. I doubt you'll have too much problem eating whatever if you have all day and some stops to do the distance.
As for backing up mulitple days, it's no different to pacing a single ride. Don't start too hard, keep it ticking. The 2nd, 3rd days will probably bite, and it'll take a little while to get warmed up at the start of each day, but then you just keep ticking along.
dojo said:
I'm doing JOGLE in a couple of months and I had a couple of realisations on this ride, mainly that my perception of nutrition isn't where it needs to be.
I did 100 miles on Sunday with 6000ft of climbing.
Nothing crazy but a hard enough stint and fair representation of a JOGLE day.
(I am going to struggle to get the back to back 100 mile day training in which is a real worry)
On Sunday I had a large bowl of muesli and banana before I started and then ate peanut butter sandwiches or malt loaf with a couple of cliff bars thrown in.
I was eating and drinking at regular intervals but got to the point where I knew I needed to eat but felt really sick.
My energy levels dropped about 65 miles in and I had a real struggle until about 85miles.
I def burnt a few matches in the first 65 thinking I was stronger than I was but I need to address nutrition as the thought of doing it day after day seems a stretch at the moment.
Any thoughts/advice would be great.
I did LEJOG a couple of years ago (over 10 days). The amount you need to eat is pretty bonkers. The first few days was hard to get it all down but after that, my body adjusted and I was able to cram in a huge amount. Little and often worked for me - every 20min I would eat something. I wouldn't have been able to do it without gels and energy powder in my water to supplement the snacks (malt loaf, bananas and flapjack ). I got sick of the sweetness but the sheer delight of an egg sandwich made up for it. I still crave egg sandwiches years later ! I did 100 miles on Sunday with 6000ft of climbing.
Nothing crazy but a hard enough stint and fair representation of a JOGLE day.
(I am going to struggle to get the back to back 100 mile day training in which is a real worry)
On Sunday I had a large bowl of muesli and banana before I started and then ate peanut butter sandwiches or malt loaf with a couple of cliff bars thrown in.
I was eating and drinking at regular intervals but got to the point where I knew I needed to eat but felt really sick.
My energy levels dropped about 65 miles in and I had a real struggle until about 85miles.
I def burnt a few matches in the first 65 thinking I was stronger than I was but I need to address nutrition as the thought of doing it day after day seems a stretch at the moment.
Any thoughts/advice would be great.
After those first couple of days, I settled down to a nice rythmm. Breakfast, Second breakfast, lunch, tea during the cycle and did each stint of 25-30 miles as it's own little challenge. Once done I then had a big recovery meal and stretch then straight to bed. Five meals and snacks gave enough energy that by day 5 I was still powering along after 80 miles.
Last tip I would give would be to make sure you conserve energy where you can. Start slow and just because you're feeling good at 40-50 miles, doesn't mean you should inrease your speed. Set an average speed for the day and keep to it. Draft where you can and don't go into the red on hills as you'll regret it later.
Good luck !
@Fizzwheel - I'll have a look at the blog in a bit.
I've made my own route but basically its along the top of Scotland, down over the Cairngorms to Edinburgh, across and down the boarder between Uk and Wales then over Dartmoor and along the South Coast of Cornwall.
Its just when you start looking at the ride and say you average a comfortable 12.5miles and hour the day can quickly get away from you if you stop/have a flat etc etc. Esp if you need to wash your kit and make the next days snacks etc.
I do need to not worry about the time. I have booked the time off from home whereas on Sunday I left early and was pushing hard to get home to do family duties.
I've made my own route but basically its along the top of Scotland, down over the Cairngorms to Edinburgh, across and down the boarder between Uk and Wales then over Dartmoor and along the South Coast of Cornwall.
Its just when you start looking at the ride and say you average a comfortable 12.5miles and hour the day can quickly get away from you if you stop/have a flat etc etc. Esp if you need to wash your kit and make the next days snacks etc.
I do need to not worry about the time. I have booked the time off from home whereas on Sunday I left early and was pushing hard to get home to do family duties.
Nutrition is very personal, works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. Don't worry about your "training" ride, you're allowed to get it wrong, that's the idea. You didn't mention hydration, I generally make myself drink 0.5ltr/hr Spring & Autumn going up to 1.0ltr/hr on the rare hot days. I tend to use energy or caffeine drinks for the first half of a century ride then onto electrolyte drinks for the remainder.
Good luck with JOGLE, don't forget to enjoy it
Good luck with JOGLE, don't forget to enjoy it
I did LEJOG a few years ago, in 9 days.
As people have said, 100 miles in a day when you have nothing else to do is quite pleasant, make sure to take the time to enjoy it. A proper lunch stop is helpful.
Eat lots of whatever you like. For me it was porridge for breakfast, and lots of cereal bars when on the move. I found things like Lucozade Sport in the bottles was too sickly, so had them mixed with an equal amount of water.
I used to enjoy big omelettes for lunch, often ordering two from the cafe.
In the evening we would eat locally to our accommodation. If they were doing 2 meals for £10 or whatever, the table would become quite full when they brought the food to the table.
As people have said, 100 miles in a day when you have nothing else to do is quite pleasant, make sure to take the time to enjoy it. A proper lunch stop is helpful.
Eat lots of whatever you like. For me it was porridge for breakfast, and lots of cereal bars when on the move. I found things like Lucozade Sport in the bottles was too sickly, so had them mixed with an equal amount of water.
I used to enjoy big omelettes for lunch, often ordering two from the cafe.
In the evening we would eat locally to our accommodation. If they were doing 2 meals for £10 or whatever, the table would become quite full when they brought the food to the table.
All personal unfortunately but get practising sooner rather than later, would say what you were eating was fairly good as proper solids, want to avoid gels etc on this sort of ride. Alternative to porridge for breakfast is rice pudding if you need something sweet. Easier on the gut as it contains hardly any fibre so it digests nice and quickly and has a good water content.
I've not done LeJoG but it's all down to training your body for back to back days and eating from the off, don't wait 2 hours to eat, have your breakfast at least 2 hours before riding and start eating within the first 30 minutes, little and often, and ensure you chew your food to minimise any stress on your stomach (this is something I'm rubbish at). If you're starting to feel sick through eating, take a half hour stop. Always sorted me out when riding the south downs way and my stomach is having a funny 5 minutes. Energy in your drink is always good to have too as you consume this regularly to keep you rolling.
I've not done LeJoG but it's all down to training your body for back to back days and eating from the off, don't wait 2 hours to eat, have your breakfast at least 2 hours before riding and start eating within the first 30 minutes, little and often, and ensure you chew your food to minimise any stress on your stomach (this is something I'm rubbish at). If you're starting to feel sick through eating, take a half hour stop. Always sorted me out when riding the south downs way and my stomach is having a funny 5 minutes. Energy in your drink is always good to have too as you consume this regularly to keep you rolling.
As said above, nutrition is very personal so finding out what works best should be part of the training / planning. I learnt a long time ago when MTBing a lot that a Camelback bladder full of energy drink would result in stomach cramps by the end of the day. So my drinks are for just hydration - if riding from home, I use bulk electrolyte powder with some squash added for flavour (which is very cheap - see below). If needing to refill during a long ride, I pack a few High5 Zero or similar tablets.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/BULK-POWDERS-Electrolyte-...
We don't know what the OPs accommodation / support / schedule is but waiting two hours to let breakfast digest doesn't sound like a great use of time. Over a week that's a full day pretty spent waiting around. It's a long distance endurance ride, so not burning your matches is important and thus, IMHO, I'd head straight out after breakfast and keep the effort in check for the first 30 to 60 minutes to warm the legs up and let the food digest.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/BULK-POWDERS-Electrolyte-...
We don't know what the OPs accommodation / support / schedule is but waiting two hours to let breakfast digest doesn't sound like a great use of time. Over a week that's a full day pretty spent waiting around. It's a long distance endurance ride, so not burning your matches is important and thus, IMHO, I'd head straight out after breakfast and keep the effort in check for the first 30 to 60 minutes to warm the legs up and let the food digest.
Harpoon said:
We don't know what the OPs accommodation / support / schedule is but waiting two hours to let breakfast digest doesn't sound like a great use of time. Over a week that's a full day pretty spent waiting around. It's a long distance endurance ride, so not burning your matches is important and thus, IMHO, I'd head straight out after breakfast and keep the effort in check for the first 30 to 60 minutes to warm the legs up and let the food digest.
Agree with this. It would take a huge amount of self control to wait for 2 hours knowing you have 100+ miles ahead of you. The urge to get going was overwhelming for me. I split breakfast into two sittings. Got up early (4-5am) had something to eat ( porridge/bananas/bread & jam) then headed straight out. You can get 30-40 miles under your belt while in Zombie mode and then stop for another breakfast. It then felt to me that I was starting again with a 70 mile ride which was easier to cope with mentally. Of course everyone's different....gifdy said:
Agree with this. It would take a huge amount of self control to wait for 2 hours knowing you have 100+ miles ahead of you. The urge to get going was overwhelming for me. I split breakfast into two sittings. Got up early (4-5am) had something to eat ( porridge/bananas/bread & jam) then headed straight out. You can get 30-40 miles under your belt while in Zombie mode and then stop for another breakfast. It then felt to me that I was starting again with a 70 mile ride which was easier to cope with mentally. Of course everyone's different....
Thats a really nice idea. I've been looking at LeJog for a while and (beyond actual fitness questions) wondering if its just a bit dull grinding out those long miles day after day. Morning faffing is a pet hate so imagine the ultra earliness speeds you up out the door too.On nutrition: I am a something every 30 minutes type. with good breakfast and one 'bigger' meal on 70 mile + multi dayers. Top tube bags work really well as my balance isnt the best when reaching around. Legs are often fine without food for long stretches but it keeps the mental fatigue at bay which can really suck the joy out of riding.
Use a lot of Nakd bars (halved), then bites of Kendal mint cake , Bananna , gels ahead of hilly bits .
Dnlm said:
Thats a really nice idea. I've been looking at LeJog for a while and (beyond actual fitness questions) wondering if its just a bit dull grinding out those long miles day after day.
Surely it's up to you to make it what you want?- Do it with some pals so you can draft off each other and can split the cost of a support vehicle
- Do one of the organised rides with a massive group, and get the support of all the new mates you'll make
- Do it in a super fast time, although the records are probably out of reach, being able to do it in 5 days is probably within reach, and properly impressive
- Do it over 3 weeks, taking a very scenic route including lots of brewery tours and the route of the North Coast 500
- Do it over a number of trips that add up to the whole thing, maybe over years, picking up where you left off each time
louiebaby said:
Dnlm said:
Thats a really nice idea. I've been looking at LeJog for a while and (beyond actual fitness questions) wondering if its just a bit dull grinding out those long miles day after day.
Surely it's up to you to make it what you want?getting the achievement appeals though!
Dnlm said:
Thats a really nice idea. I've been looking at LeJog for a while and (beyond actual fitness questions) wondering if its just a bit dull grinding out those long miles day after day. Morning faffing is a pet hate so imagine the ultra earliness speeds you up out the door too.
I did mine on my own, mostly because I was raising money in memory of my friend and I didnt want to ride with people who didnt know him and I'm the only cyclist in his circle of friends.I'm also quite happy in my own company, I also felt like because I was on my own I rode at my own speed, my own pace and I didnt have to worry about anybody else or anything so I stopped when I wanted to, if there was something I wanted to stop and take pictures of then I stopped. For me it felt easier than riding in a bunch. I was fine most days and I my girlfriend was there in the evenings so I had company / somebody to talk to. In Scotland I saw a fair few other cyclists and I think the top half in / out of John O'Groats there are only a few routes you can take so you'll see plenty of people on that section.
I think its about doing what you want, if you want to ride in a group, do that, if you want to ride on your own then do that. I think if I was doing it in a group I would want a smallish group of even numbers and people who I got on with well, you'll be spending an awful lot of time with them and you need to be comfortable in each others companies and not get on each other nerves to much, also if you are in an even numbered goroup you can split up into two's and ride along like that so if you do end up getting on each others nerves you can split up but then also nobody feels like they are riding on their own if they didn't want to.
I only really missed having somebody to talk do on Day 8, I had planned a stop in my home town overnight just for a night in my own bed and to clear the motorhome out of stuff I wouldn't need anymore and I just had it my head that day that I would be "home" soon and I put to much pressure on myself and rushed to try and get home, ( does that make sense ) and the route was tough that day ( over the mendips ) and it took me longer than I thought it would and I got a bit down about it all when I was riding that day.
There is another tip there as well, just don't rush each day, dont set targets don't think I will be at tonights stop by 4pm etc just go with the flow.
I'm doing it with a few mates. We have booked a splitter van normally for touring bands. So half mini bus/have storage and have a mate who is an artist driving it from accomodation to accomodation and he will using it as paint tour... we won't see him in the day but we don't need to carry clothes on the bike and can carry a large toolkit on the bus and a spare bike etc.
We are staying in a mixture of B&Bs/YHA/Travel lodge's etc. Because some of the guys 9-5 we only have 10 day riding window. Its a scenic route but requires some big days to fit it in the timeframe.
Did the guys who have done it sort most of the prep for the following day the night before?
ALso what gearing did you use? I have a compact on the front and currently 11-32 on the rear but think of changing it to a 11-34 when I do set up??
We are staying in a mixture of B&Bs/YHA/Travel lodge's etc. Because some of the guys 9-5 we only have 10 day riding window. Its a scenic route but requires some big days to fit it in the timeframe.
Did the guys who have done it sort most of the prep for the following day the night before?
ALso what gearing did you use? I have a compact on the front and currently 11-32 on the rear but think of changing it to a 11-34 when I do set up??
We did it in 9 days, with three riders and my Dad driving the support car. (Since this is PH, it was an E39 540iA Touring.) He sort of followed us, but would pop off and get food / drink from a supermarket, and then catch us up. Or sit in a layby doing the crossword in the paper.
He usually stayed a bit closer to us in the afternoons as we got more tired and needed topping up with cake.
We pre-booked the accommodation before we left, splitting the mileage roughly where we could find somewhere. Pubs in smaller towns or B&Bs worked well for us. The downside is that you have a target mileage each day, but it removed the stress of needing to find somewhere to sleep. I'm glad we pre-booked.
He usually stayed a bit closer to us in the afternoons as we got more tired and needed topping up with cake.
We pre-booked the accommodation before we left, splitting the mileage roughly where we could find somewhere. Pubs in smaller towns or B&Bs worked well for us. The downside is that you have a target mileage each day, but it removed the stress of needing to find somewhere to sleep. I'm glad we pre-booked.
dojo said:
Did the guys who have done it sort most of the prep for the following day the night before?
ALso what gearing did you use? I have a compact on the front and currently 11-32 on the rear but think of changing it to a 11-34 when I do set up??
I prepped for the next day before I sat down to eat my evening meal, but I pre bagged my clothes into small zip lock bags for each day, so all I really needed to do was to put the next days clothes bag out with my shoes helmet etc so I could just grab it all in the morning.ALso what gearing did you use? I have a compact on the front and currently 11-32 on the rear but think of changing it to a 11-34 when I do set up??
That way I did all my prep and then once I sat down for the evening I could relax knowing I was all ready to go for the next day.
I used a Semi compact 52 x 36 with 11 - 30 on the back. The only times I wished for something a little easier were in Cornwall, where I had to walk a couple of hills but apart from that I got on OK with it. But it really depends on your climbing style, but I think if you are worried or concerned about your hill climbing ability some bail out gears wouldn't be a bad idea, I think it's better to have them and not use them than to regret not fitting them.
fizzwheel said:
I used a Semi compact 52 x 36 with 11 - 30 on the back. The only times I wished for something a little easier were in Cornwall, where I had to walk a couple of hills but apart from that I got on OK with it. But it really depends on your climbing style, but I think if you are worried or concerned about your hill climbing ability some bail out gears wouldn't be a bad idea, I think it's better to have them and not use them than to regret not fitting them.
Gearing wise, I did it on 50/34 and 11-28. I never needed to walk, but had to get out of the seat a few times, mainly on day one.Lands End to Exeter was day one for us, and this was by FAR the lumpiest day. In Scotland the roads tend to follow valleys, mostly. In Cornwall and on Dartmoor, they don't seem to have the same courtesy. (I now live in Devon, so I'm allowed to slag it off a bit!)
The climb from Tavistock to Princetown is amazing, and goes on for ages. If you're going North to South, it's quite good fun to come down too...!
Harpoon said:
It's a long distance endurance ride, so not burning your matches is important and thus, IMHO, I'd head straight out after breakfast and keep the effort in check for the first 30 to 60 minutes to warm the legs up and let the food digest.
This. Nutrition is, crudely, balancing fuel burned with fuel supply. We're similar to cars in that we're much less fuel-efficient at higher revs.Flat out I'll burn over 1,000 kcals per hour but at multi-day endurance pace I'm down to about 350-400 kcals/hr. That's slow enough that my body can keep up with demand by burning stored fat and digesting 'proper' food. So one side of the equation is to moderate how much fuel you're burning by keeping the power low.
It's still very easy to run out of fuel on longer rides and especially multi-day longer rides where you're likely building up a deficit. The top trick is simply to keep on eating. If you find yourself getting behind then some simple sugary food will rescue you. If your guts are already screaming for mercy then you might want to take a short break (this might mean off the bike or perhaps just super mellow pedalling) to let your digestive system cope with a can of Coke and not be fighting with your legs for blood flow.
Don't neglect hydration too. If you dehydrate then your body gets less efficient at pushing the now-thicker blood around the body, so you're losing power but also making digestion harder. One of many vicious circles that you can get away with on shorter riders but can make the wheels fall off on longer/multi-day rides.
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