25m TT Sub60 - how many watts do I need?
Discussion
A mate of mine did H25/8 on his roadbike the same day I did on my TT - it is a fairly honest TT course, not totally flat, but pretty flat and out and back sort of thing - 59.51 time on cervelo S5 on normal bars/skinsuit, probably weighed 5-6kg more than you but that's fairly irrelevant - required 280W from him.
Jacobyte said:
You're probably at around 70 minutes currently in the real world, 250-275 watts might get you there. Drafting in a group is significantly more efficient than an aero position.
One way yo find out - step outside and have a crack at it.
To further this, when I used to do aero testing and such my position/kit on TT bike at around 0.2CdA was about the same as sitting in a big bunch of riders on a roadbike, gives you an impression of how hard riding away from a bunch of people on your own is! But also how much fast a good TT bike position and kit is. I beat my mate by 10 minutes in that event with only 70w more and weighing probably best part of 12kg more/6 inches taller.One way yo find out - step outside and have a crack at it.
Also not sure what you both mean about Zwift watts/running a garmin with it?
Zwift is either taking your data from a powermeter or its not. There is no reason on this earth not to have your powermeter (assuming you own one) being the source of truth on BOTH zwift and your gamin.
Edited by okgo on Monday 8th March 10:07
Jacobyte said:
You're probably at around 70 minutes currently in the real world, 250-275 watts might get you there. Drafting in a group is significantly more efficient than an aero position.
One way yo find out - step outside and have a crack at it.
I don't think Zwift will prepare you for riding a TT outside in a good time. There are so many other factors outdoors that you don't get inside, I would say you have to start training outdoors to get an idea. What's the course like? Is it a good surface? Is it out and back or circular? What's the wind doing on the day? Where does the gradient help you, where does it slow you down? Have you got close fitting clothing? Can you get into a good position and hold it? What's the traffic like? How many junctions do you need to think about?One way yo find out - step outside and have a crack at it.
anonymous said:
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Ah ok, so all your power readings are from the Kickr? Got it.Well it depends what level of importance you place on going under an hour in a TT I suppose. If you bought a TT bike amd lucked into a half decent position straight away then you'd lower the wattage requirement drastically, yes. More likely to be 240/250 or so.
As to whether it is possible to go from 200-280 - 4.5 w/kg is a fair level of talent and lots of people will never get to that even if they did pro level training, but there are of course plenty of riders who get to that level.
Though what I would say is that talent on a bike tends to make itself quite obvious, quite quickly, so if you've done a lot of riding already and this is where you are, maybe you can have a fair guess at whether you think gaining 30% is likely.
Daveyraveygravey said:
I don't think Zwift will prepare you for riding a TT outside in a good time. There are so many other factors outdoors that you don't get inside, I would say you have to start training outdoors to get an idea. What's the course like? Is it a good surface? Is it out and back or circular? What's the wind doing on the day? Where does the gradient help you, where does it slow you down? Have you got close fitting clothing? Can you get into a good position and hold it? What's the traffic like? How many junctions do you need to think about?
To counter this, I 'trained' fewer than 10 times outside on my TT bike in 7 years. It didn't matter, a number of courses I rode and got alright times/results on I'd never ridden prior to the event, just used streetview/mywindsock to get an idea of the situation. All my training was done on the turbo, in TT position. And the bulk of my training was just on a road bike outside.Of course what you have listed are considerations, but most of which (clearly you'll look at the wind, have decent clothing and know which way you have to go ahead of the event) don't make much odds really. There are a number of very quick testers who never rode outside, did everything on a turbo. Owing to the nature of a TT bike, they can be very difficult to train on in real world roads anyway.
t on a TT bike, lots of muscle groups being used in such an extreme position that you wouldn't necessarily feel on a road bike.anonymous said:
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Brilliant answer. So you need to have a coach and a track to do drills. While they surely help, if it‘s a goal you want to achieve you can find ways to train.Just saw you said the wheel was slipping when you were doing a ramp test. Be aware that wheel on trainer power accuracy is notoriously bad.
I’d also echo the above and that some clip on bars and a skinsuit will get you a lot closer to TT bike than not. And will cost peanuts in comparison.
Going under 50 is the general mark of a fast 25 mile TT, but even that has become out dated tbh and most people who used to do around 50 mins do 48 and more these days. The game has moved on.
Going under 50 is the general mark of a fast 25 mile TT, but even that has become out dated tbh and most people who used to do around 50 mins do 48 and more these days. The game has moved on.
okgo said:
I’d also echo the above and that some clip on bars and a skinsuit will get you a lot closer to TT bike than not. And will cost peanuts in comparison.
Going under 50 is the general mark of a fast 25 mile TT, but even that has become out dated tbh and most people who used to do around 50 mins do 48 and more these days. The game has moved on.
Better yet, stick your brake levers behind the bar tops:Going under 50 is the general mark of a fast 25 mile TT, but even that has become out dated tbh and most people who used to do around 50 mins do 48 and more these days. The game has moved on.
Get a position like Derek Cottington:
And break 50 minutes, 1970's style (Cottington "only" did a 50' 47'', but a decent haircut would have got him very close to a "long" 49)
Traffic or no traffic, those were pretty incredible rides for the day.
I’d need to do 290-295w to go under the hr on a 25, that’s on a Giant Trinity with F6R front and disc rear, skinsuit, shoe covers and pointy hat. I’m 6’1” and was around 74kg at my best last summer.
Only way your going to work out what you need to sustain is go out and get some miles in whilst averaging 25mph.
Only way your going to work out what you need to sustain is go out and get some miles in whilst averaging 25mph.
Kgs are mostly irrelevant. Especially if you want your best time - go find a flat course and forget the kgs. There's a reason why sprinters and TT specialists are *generally* not winning climbing stages (yep, there are occasional GC riders who can TT, but it's not the norm)
Watts required depend almost entirely upon how big a hole you need to punch in the air - assuming a 'fast' course. And the weather. If it blows, it'll most likely suck.
You might be able to get a decent aero position on a roadbike with clip ons (while still putting out decent power) you might not.
I'd have to ask why such an arbitrary number matters that much. I mean, sure, why not.. it was a target for me, but I was already turning in 1:02-1:04ish, and TTing fairly regularly. This reads like "I just wanna do 59:59 then forget TTs"
I'm also somewhat confused - you said a kickr earlier, then mentioned wheel slip? Kickr isn't a wheel on trainer, unless you mean a snap? If it's wheel on, then forget those power numbers.
One thing you can guarantee, is it's gonna hurt. If you can't get through a ramp test, then you probably need to fix that first.
FWIW 278w at 5'10, 80kgs and on a TT (with ALL the toys), plus a fast course on a very nice day got me just under the hour. I'm fat and have exactly the kind of shoulders you don't want for timetrialling, but a fairly flat position.
Watts required depend almost entirely upon how big a hole you need to punch in the air - assuming a 'fast' course. And the weather. If it blows, it'll most likely suck.
You might be able to get a decent aero position on a roadbike with clip ons (while still putting out decent power) you might not.
I'd have to ask why such an arbitrary number matters that much. I mean, sure, why not.. it was a target for me, but I was already turning in 1:02-1:04ish, and TTing fairly regularly. This reads like "I just wanna do 59:59 then forget TTs"
I'm also somewhat confused - you said a kickr earlier, then mentioned wheel slip? Kickr isn't a wheel on trainer, unless you mean a snap? If it's wheel on, then forget those power numbers.
One thing you can guarantee, is it's gonna hurt. If you can't get through a ramp test, then you probably need to fix that first.
FWIW 278w at 5'10, 80kgs and on a TT (with ALL the toys), plus a fast course on a very nice day got me just under the hour. I'm fat and have exactly the kind of shoulders you don't want for timetrialling, but a fairly flat position.
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