Wheel out of alignment... This could be a tricky one.

[Pulse]

So... 2 months ago, I bought (brand new) a 2020 Kona Honzo ST. For those who don't know it, it's a 27.5+, steel hardtail, with a 12-speed SRAM drivetrain. Also, it has adjustable dropouts...

I've been having a few issues with the bike (more on that later), but I noticed yesterday something quite strange - the rear wheel doesn't sit anywhere near centre in the triangle.

I've measured both tyre and rim, and it's off by a decent margin. I've also eyed it up with the seat tube, and you can visibly see it's out of line.

Is this 'normal' (due to... whatever reason), or is something wrong? It's leans to the left, if that helps illustrate matters. I did notice however that the adjuster screw on the left hand side was different to the right (on the adjustable dropouts), so perhaps it's just that out of alignment?

I've tried another set of wheels in there, and it's exactly the same, so I don't think it's the dish of the wheels.

I have the bike back in for its 8-week service soon, so of course I'll ask them there (this is all quite new to me), but figured I'd rather get some knowledge / answers before then if possible. I've done about 50 miles on the bike, and I've barely done more than a canal tow path on it as yet.

The other issues I've had are front and rear discs scraping (guessing bent discs), and the headset is scraping (when I turn the bars you can very audibly hear it scraping/grinding)... But that's for another thread I guess.

Thoughts?

[AlasdairMc]

Definitely the dropouts. Can you adjust them into a neutral position (both screws fully tightened or loosened perhaps) then nudge them slowly into the right position? I don’t know the model specifically, but I had similar
on a Salsa el Mariachi a few years back.

Disks - could just be how you brake. Heating the disk can cause warping but it generally sorts itself out. If not, it might need the calliper moved if it’s not properly aligned.

[Bathroom_Security]

Suspect its the drop outs as mentioned BUT

Are the discs permanently scraping or is it on off on off, like they are bent.

FWIW many come with a bit of run out, just like cars do. I have a tool to bend them back but they are never quite perfect, I also run my brake pads very close to the rotor leaving little room for movement, dirt built up in the pads can then cause slight rubbing.

After I go out in the winter and come home properly stted up, I remove the pads and clean them with water and a toothbrush to remove anything the pressure washer cant get as there is often dirt built up round the sides.

Nice bike, any photos? I am trying to persuade my buddy to get the ESD.

e/

Also, the head set scraping, is this defo the bearings or is it the cables rubbing? You can get Jag Wire Outer Casing Hooks for the rubbing wires. Id be surprised if the bearings needed cleaning and greasing after 50 miles unless you stuck a jet washer in there. If so, maybe the compression bearing was done up too tight. May pay to learn to take it apart yourself, grease it up properly and then put it back together again.

Consider it routine maintenance, takes 20mins

Edited by Bathroom_Security on Tuesday 22 December 09:58

[Hugo Stiglitz]

I'd look at seating in the drop outs. Is the rotor unline correctly? I had s bike once which needed spacers on the rotor/caliper etc as it was maybe a mm out of line and the caliper was leaning on the rotor pulling the seating of the through axle just enough so it was all out of line.

It could also be that the rear triangle wasn't made straight. It happens. Get this checked by a competent shop.

Is the wheel dished right?

Personally I'd go for a triangle alignment issue missed by QC at the factory.

[Pulse]

AlasdairMc said:

Definitely the dropouts. Can you adjust them into a neutral position (both screws fully tightened or loosened perhaps) then nudge them slowly into the right position? I don’t know the model specifically, but I had similar
on a Salsa el Mariachi a few years back.

Disks - could just be how you brake. Heating the disk can cause warping but it generally sorts itself out. If not, it might need the calliper moved if it’s not properly aligned.

I wondered if I may mess up the gearing then if I make it too tight or too loose? I was thinking of maybe just trying to nudge the left one forward more, to bring it in line but not affect the tightness on the chain. I'm assuming that'd work with just the screw bit?

The brake would obviously need re-aligning, too.

[Pulse]

Bathroom_Security said:

Suspect its the drop outs as mentioned BUT

Are the discs permanently scraping or is it on off on off, like they are bent.

FWIW many come with a bit of run out, just like cars do. I have a tool to bend them back but they are never quite perfect, I also run my brake pads very close to the rotor leaving little room for movement, dirt built up in the pads can then cause slight rubbing.

After I go out in the winter and come home properly stted up, I remove the pads and clean them with water and a toothbrush to remove anything the pressure washer cant get as there is often dirt built up round the sides.

Nice bike, any photos? I am trying to persuade my buddy to get the ESD.

e/

Also, the head set scraping, is this defo the bearings or is it the cables rubbing? You can get Jag Wire Outer Casing Hooks for the rubbing wires. Id be surprised if the bearings needed cleaning and greasing after 50 miles unless you stuck a jet washer in there. If so, maybe the compression bearing was done up too tight. May pay to learn to take it apart yourself, grease it up properly and then put it back together again.

Consider it routine maintenance, takes 20mins

Edited by Bathroom_Security on Tuesday 22 December 09:58

The disc tends to scrape more the faster I get... As weird as that sounds. It's not all the time, it's on and off, but not like a rotational on and off (as otherwise it'd do it all the time I guess?)... Has done it since new, so not mud related (though obviously gets worse in mud).

Definitely inside the headtube somewhere, and not the cables. I saw that mentioned elsewhere, and it seems like every time I ride the bike and then wash it (not with a pressure washer) it gets worse. Not sure why. It was fine when I got it and it's just got progressively worse. I am concerned about doing anything myself currently for warranty purposes, so that one will have to wait.

[Pulse]

Hugo Stiglitz said:

I'd look at seating in the drop outs. Is the rotor unline correctly? I had s bike once which needed spacers on the rotor/caliper etc as it was maybe a mm out of line and the caliper was leaning on the rotor pulling the seating of the through axle just enough so it was all out of line.

It could also be that the rear triangle wasn't made straight. It happens. Get this checked by a competent shop.

Is the wheel dished right?

Personally I'd go for a triangle alignment issue missed by QC at the factory.

I'll check the rotor shortly. Good point.

[nickfrog]

I would regrease the headset. It is not uncommon for the factory in TW to use no grease. My £4k Decoy had none at all but I always regrease all bearings on a new bike anyway.

[Pulse]

nickfrog said:

I would regrease the headset. It is not uncommon for the factory in TW to use no grease. My £4k Decoy had none at all but I always regrease all bearings on a new bike anyway.

Guess it’s time for me to learn. It was built up by the LBS, so I’d hope they did that correctly.

[nickfrog]

Pulse said:

Guess it’s time for me to learn. It was built up by the LBS, so I’d hope they did that correctly.

They may not have opened it. It's very simple: undo the top screw on the cap and then the 2 bolts on the stem. This will free up your forks and give you access to the headset bearings/cups. Just pack as much grease as you can and re assemble starting with the single top bolt which will preload the headset (tight enough to get rid of all play but not so tight so that it affects the steering). Then the 2 stem bolts. Wipe the excess grease. The end.

You might as well learn indeed as it's something to do twice a year at least anyway. It will take you 5mn after the first time.

[shalmaneser]

My suggestion would be to take it back to the bike shop assuming this is possible - are they local or an online brand?

Checking the squareness of the frame isn't too tricky, you need to orientate the frame so the dropouts are at the top and run a plumb line from the rear dropouts to the head tube and measure the offsets. Chances are it's fine though.

As you say however the bike has adjustable dropouts, most likely one has slipped forward or back or just been set up wrong. This is pretty basic stuff the bike shop should have sorted but is relatively easy to sort yourself - just adjust the dropout until the wheel is centred between the chain stays. It's probably easiest to adjust the non-drive side as the gears aren't in the way.

Most likely you will need to adjust the brakes and gears after this.

[Pulse]

shalmaneser said:

My suggestion would be to take it back to the bike shop assuming this is possible - are they local or an online brand?

Checking the squareness of the frame isn't too tricky, you need to orientate the frame so the dropouts are at the top and run a plumb line from the rear dropouts to the head tube and measure the offsets. Chances are it's fine though.

As you say however the bike has adjustable dropouts, most likely one has slipped forward or back or just been set up wrong. This is pretty basic stuff the bike shop should have sorted but is relatively easy to sort yourself - just adjust the dropout until the wheel is centred between the chain stays. It's probably easiest to adjust the non-drive side as the gears aren't in the way.

Most likely you will need to adjust the brakes and gears after this.

I think you’re right (for this time at least). I’ll wait til it goes in on the 2nd of Jan. Since as you say, the gears etc will need doing too. They already need doing, so may as well have it all done in one go.

[Pulse]

Bathroom_Security said:

Nice bike, any photos? I am trying to persuade my buddy to get the ESD.

Forgot to reply to this. Here’s the bike. Alongside my mate’s Ragley Piglet - also a steel hardtail, though now he has upgraded to full XO1 and Hunt wheels.