The road bike Endurance Vs Race experience
Discussion
I've got a 2020 Cannondale Synapse Carbon Disc. I love it. It's my first proper "posh" road bike. I got a proper fit in a shop first and had the cranks, bars, etc, changed for my size. It's ace. Same shop guy said it's a good bike to get into road riding but the actual riding is quite 'safe' and predictable which ultimately will become a bit boring. (re-reading this it makes it sound like it was slating it. He wasn't - just long term, he thought once my body got used to the position (I'm usually MTBing) the racier bikes are more fun to ride.
So; what would the experience be riding a SuperSix Evo (which is my bikes racier sister) over my Synapse? I appreciate the position will be a more more extreme, and the bike is probably a little lighter, but I can make my current bike lighter. What does a race bike do, and (what I'm more interested in) how does it feel? How is it more exciting?
So; what would the experience be riding a SuperSix Evo (which is my bikes racier sister) over my Synapse? I appreciate the position will be a more more extreme, and the bike is probably a little lighter, but I can make my current bike lighter. What does a race bike do, and (what I'm more interested in) how does it feel? How is it more exciting?
You could get your current bike to the same position and feel as the supersix without too much hassle. I would imagine the race bike would feel a bit more rigid, but likely not a lot in it. Apart from marketing.
Negative stem and removing some spacers and you'd be half way there probably. Certainly it would not be night and day, its not as if you're coming from a mountain bike or a sit up and beg type machine.
Negative stem and removing some spacers and you'd be half way there probably. Certainly it would not be night and day, its not as if you're coming from a mountain bike or a sit up and beg type machine.
Someone vastly more experienced in these things will be along shortly no doubt, but IME there will be very little difference.
I bought my first road bike earlier this year so did a little bit of research on these things and ended up with an "endurance" model rather than a full "race" model.
As you say, race bikes are marginally lighter and the position will be marginally more extreme/uncomfortable in order to maximise your aero efficiency
Personally, those things don't equal "more exciting".
I bought my first road bike earlier this year so did a little bit of research on these things and ended up with an "endurance" model rather than a full "race" model.
As you say, race bikes are marginally lighter and the position will be marginally more extreme/uncomfortable in order to maximise your aero efficiency
Personally, those things don't equal "more exciting".
I agree with what others have said. I don't think you'll see a night and day difference between yours and a more focussed race bike. There is a massive amount of marketing involved in selling bikes, and getting people to worry about things that don't really matter (or even exist). You can probably easily get a "racier" position by dropping the stem and/or going for a longer one. A race frame with slightly twitchier steering geometry is not going to make things much more "exciting" (at least, not in a good way!).
BoRED S2upid said:
There’s quite a big weight difference between the two isn’t there? The evo is a favourite of the weight weenies. You will notice a difference if the difference is a kg or two especially up hills.
This is one of things that influenced my decision even though I was coming from a 15kg MTB I still wanted as big a weight saving as I could find within my budget and requirements.I paid £850 for a brand new aluminium bike with a full 105 groupset and it came in at 8.8kg without pedals and I'm about to shed 0.5kg of that with some £500 carbon aero wheels.
Those Evo's start around the £2000 mark and still weigh 8kg!
Don't let expensive bikes fool you into believing you can't get lightweight without spending big.
I’ve got both Synapse and Super Six.
The Super Six is a winter bike so I don’t swap from one to the other but occasionally I do swap over
The Super Six is slightly more aggressive position and feels more efficient when riding. I thought the seat height on the Synapse was off but it was spot on. I’ve since raised it slightly to feel more like the Super but it’s more psychological than physical.
I would definitely say that one is not faster than the other as far as my riding style is concerned.
The Super Six is a winter bike so I don’t swap from one to the other but occasionally I do swap over
The Super Six is slightly more aggressive position and feels more efficient when riding. I thought the seat height on the Synapse was off but it was spot on. I’ve since raised it slightly to feel more like the Super but it’s more psychological than physical.
I would definitely say that one is not faster than the other as far as my riding style is concerned.
I'd beware people that say talk about "safe" and "predictable" handling like it's a bad thing. In a racier bike, faster or more sensitive steering might be desirable, but that doesn't mean unpredictable steering. It's macho pub (or bike shop) b
ks.
I remember the Ducati 1199 Panigale coming out and everyone saying it was so thrilling, challenging yet rewarding to ride hard on the road. Then Ducati made huge improvements to the handling of subsequent Panigales and suddenly all is forgotten; people quickly stopped talking about how their wild 1199 made every ride a white knuckle thrill, because they were going faster on their new bikes, with their "safe" handling, without having scaring themselves every time they wound the power on anything other than a smooth, flat surface with the bike bolt upright.
With road bikes, as with motorbikes, if you have confidence in the machine, you'll be faster. If you don't know where the limits are, or the limit feels like it changes unpredictability, you'll probably temper your cornering, consciously or subconsciously.
If you want to change bikes, do it, but do it because you want the bike, not because a bloke in bike shop tried to tacitly call your bike boring.
ks. I remember the Ducati 1199 Panigale coming out and everyone saying it was so thrilling, challenging yet rewarding to ride hard on the road. Then Ducati made huge improvements to the handling of subsequent Panigales and suddenly all is forgotten; people quickly stopped talking about how their wild 1199 made every ride a white knuckle thrill, because they were going faster on their new bikes, with their "safe" handling, without having scaring themselves every time they wound the power on anything other than a smooth, flat surface with the bike bolt upright.
With road bikes, as with motorbikes, if you have confidence in the machine, you'll be faster. If you don't know where the limits are, or the limit feels like it changes unpredictability, you'll probably temper your cornering, consciously or subconsciously.
If you want to change bikes, do it, but do it because you want the bike, not because a bloke in bike shop tried to tacitly call your bike boring.
The difference will be night and day, as long as you can exploit the difference. I’ve mostly been interested in road touring / going places / seeing stuff, for the majority of the years I’ve been riding road bikes. Essentially this means most of my bikes have traditionally had ‘everyman’ / occasional sportive’ set ups and geometry. I can’t really be as bothered about that sort of riding of late, preferring shorter, faster type of rides, with the occasional long tour, longer day ride, and sportive type ride. So I bought a full on race bike. Lots of aero, very light, very stiff, super light / stiff wheels etc etc etc. The fitness I built up because I like hills, and stuff mean that I can exploit the differences in the race bike. With the ‘sportive / Everyman’ bikes, if I really pushed them, I’d reach a point where any extra power I input, was just wasted by ( relative ) inadequacy of certain key components. With the highfalutin rootin tootin bike, the more I give it, the faster it goes, to the point I sometimes get a bit of a ‘twitch’ long before the effort is wasted. It maintains momentum on any ‘undulations’ as well. The biggest difference ( for me) though, is how it goes up hills. Nothing is wasted through unwanted flex anywhere, and it’s so light, it takes relatively no effort to get it up hills. The aero means it gets up to eye popping speeds, very quickly, on descents, which is where the vastly improved braking and handling helps. All in all, the high end race bikes of a range are so different to the lower end, they are like a different game, let alone ball park, as long as you can exploit the difference.
God.
And we wonder how Specialized get away with flogging the same bike with a new number in each name each year (all while sticking 1k on the price), people actually believing the above is the answer.
"I’d reach a point where any extra power I input, was just wasted by ( relative ) inadequacy of certain key components"
I won races on a Ribble Sportive bike, even a raleigh thing, cheap race bikes that are far worse on paper than the Synapse, never did I feel like I was wasting watts, and I'd imagine at 1500w you 'might' start to be able to claim something like that making a difference. But no, I never went any faster in a sprint on any number of other bikes really.
And we wonder how Specialized get away with flogging the same bike with a new number in each name each year (all while sticking 1k on the price), people actually believing the above is the answer.
"I’d reach a point where any extra power I input, was just wasted by ( relative ) inadequacy of certain key components"
I won races on a Ribble Sportive bike, even a raleigh thing, cheap race bikes that are far worse on paper than the Synapse, never did I feel like I was wasting watts, and I'd imagine at 1500w you 'might' start to be able to claim something like that making a difference. But no, I never went any faster in a sprint on any number of other bikes really.
Edited by okgo on Tuesday 8th September 09:05
Surely it will depend on YOUR definition of fun.
The Synapse is a great bike, a pal has one and loves it.
Get out there, ride as much as you can, and work out what you want from your road riding.
This will at least give you chance to do a bit of reading, and work out how to slip another bike past your other-half, and work out how to maximise the benefits from the Cycle to work Scheme.
The Synapse is a great bike, a pal has one and loves it.
Get out there, ride as much as you can, and work out what you want from your road riding.
This will at least give you chance to do a bit of reading, and work out how to slip another bike past your other-half, and work out how to maximise the benefits from the Cycle to work Scheme.
? You are a marketing person's dream !!Thanks for the replies. All very interesting and insightful. I bring this up, sorta, as it's my 40th next year and my wife has suggested I treat myself to something. Short of my dog, I don't have many other hobbies so thought about a(nother) fancy cycle. As, N+1, right? And this is where I run into...
Problem is they are gorgeous, and I want one!
But, it's interesting what's being discussed here. I ride on central Hertfordshire badly maintained cycle paths and countryside farm b roads. To a point, I probably have the ideal bike for my riding. I just wanted to know about the feel of a bike, and whether I'd notice much of a difference. I'm not super fit or athletic, nor probably ever will be, so, yes, food for thought. I'm sure there are ways I can improve my current bikes performance - marketing says to change the wheels are a must! Quashing the lust for the sexy aero race bikes tho', it's tough.
(but, heh, on the flipside, and a little o/t, I've found lusting for a steel frame with calipers, not discs. A sunny sunday machine...take that, Orbea marketing team!)
outnumbered said:
There is a massive amount of marketing involved in selling bikes, and getting people to worry about things that don't really matter (or even exist).
...that. I think with the type of bike I've got, it's about comfort and ease. It's not something you can really sell as something alluring. But being a fad/sucker for shiny things, I'll happily admit I've started falling for it a bit. I've looked at a Orbea Orca Aero, which told me I'd be saving 4watts due to the shape of the fork alone. Problem is the only watts I see are the pseudo ones Strava tells me, that I ignore. The SuperSix Evo will save me 30watts at 30mph. Problem is the only time I see 30mph is going downhill, so that seems a bit cheap for me,Problem is they are gorgeous, and I want one!
But, it's interesting what's being discussed here. I ride on central Hertfordshire badly maintained cycle paths and countryside farm b roads. To a point, I probably have the ideal bike for my riding. I just wanted to know about the feel of a bike, and whether I'd notice much of a difference. I'm not super fit or athletic, nor probably ever will be, so, yes, food for thought. I'm sure there are ways I can improve my current bikes performance - marketing says to change the wheels are a must! Quashing the lust for the sexy aero race bikes tho', it's tough.
(but, heh, on the flipside, and a little o/t, I've found lusting for a steel frame with calipers, not discs. A sunny sunday machine...take that, Orbea marketing team!)
cheesewotsit said:
Problem is they are gorgeous, and I want one!
Anything Cannondale with a spider crank immediately makes me swoon.
Being aware of the marketing b
ks, and that you're buying it because you want to is a good thing. It's slightly better than because you think you need to.It's fascinating watching the bike market evolving. The current fad seems to be race quality, lightweight endurance aero-bikes. Cervelo have the Caledonian, Factor have released one this week too. It'll be interesting to see what is next...
I haven't quite got the endurance / race bike split, but two distinct bikes from the same manufacturer, a Cervelo S5 and an R3 disc.
The fit on both is the same, as I like it that way. Fairly stretched out, but nothing like negative on the stems.
The S5 is noticeably lighter to pick up off the ground, but when riding up a mountain I couldn't tell the difference. The biggest difference for me is the handling - the S5 feels razor sharp in comparison to the R3. And far less forgiving on rough roads. It has lighter carbon wheels which play their part there.
I've got different tyres on them now, 28c on the R3 and a combination 25c/23c on the S5. The R3 is better on rough roads and I have more confidence in the wet. Without starting a brake disc argument they work better for me riding in London. I've not gone through any rims or pads like I used to with rim brakes.
The S5 is my nice bike. I love riding it, it gives me a buzz, and I tend to ride it harder because of that. The R3 is (well, was 6 months ago) my year round commuter. Again, enjoyable to ride, but with bigger tyres and a more sluggish feel.
I could go into the speed differential, having ridden the same route many times on both (with power meter and same wheels), but I think that's another thread.
The fit on both is the same, as I like it that way. Fairly stretched out, but nothing like negative on the stems.
The S5 is noticeably lighter to pick up off the ground, but when riding up a mountain I couldn't tell the difference. The biggest difference for me is the handling - the S5 feels razor sharp in comparison to the R3. And far less forgiving on rough roads. It has lighter carbon wheels which play their part there.
I've got different tyres on them now, 28c on the R3 and a combination 25c/23c on the S5. The R3 is better on rough roads and I have more confidence in the wet. Without starting a brake disc argument they work better for me riding in London. I've not gone through any rims or pads like I used to with rim brakes.
The S5 is my nice bike. I love riding it, it gives me a buzz, and I tend to ride it harder because of that. The R3 is (well, was 6 months ago) my year round commuter. Again, enjoyable to ride, but with bigger tyres and a more sluggish feel.
I could go into the speed differential, having ridden the same route many times on both (with power meter and same wheels), but I think that's another thread.
louiebaby said:
It's fascinating watching the bike market evolving. The current fad seems to be race quality, lightweight endurance aero-bikes. Cervelo have the Caledonian, Factor have released one this week too. It'll be interesting to see what is next...
Quite. I think this is especially interesting in the gravel/adventure sector. I do like the ideal of a gravel bike; if not just the aesthetics alone. I think there's something cool about seeing a fat-tyre'd 650B wheel'd road bike. But, we've now got short travel full suspension gravel bikes. The trend has come full circle from mountain bikes I used to ride in the early 00's! I guess the best bike is the one you want to ride all the time. And the reasons behind one wanting to ride it can be wide and varied. But, yeah, marketing. I didn't know I needed an aero bike until I started googling...
BrundanBianchi said:
The difference will be night and day, as long as you can exploit the difference.
okgo said:
I'd imagine at 1500w you 'might' start to be able to claim something like that making a difference.
cheesewotsit said:
I'm not super fit or athletic, nor probably ever will be
cheesewotsit said:
I'm sure there are ways I can improve my current bikes performance - marketing says to change the wheels are a must!
Thread summary right there^.Wheels are supposed to be a great upgrade but if you want the shiny new bike then get the shiny new bike.
As someone mentioned, just make sure you know you're buying "just because" and not because you think you're suddenly going to be doing pro times on your local Strava segments OR that it's going to feel like an F1 car in comparison to your other bike.
My MTB to roadbike was like going from an SUV to a Ferrari, so much so that I've done over 1K miles on it and not been on the MTB since.
You already have a Ferrari 488 and are considering purchasing a 488 Pista.
As you mention being not super fit or athletic I genuinely think the only difference you're likely to notice is the decrease in comfort, stemming from the riding position and also a bit more transmission of vibration and harshness due to it being (theoretically) stiffer.
Think Wiggle will let you purchase a bike and if you don't like it, send it back within 30 days.
Fourmotion said:
I've got different tyres on them now, 28c on the R3 and a combination 25c/23c on the S5.
That's another thing. I've only ever known 28c, briefly, and the 30c tyres I've currently got. Marketing tells me bigger is better, but do 25c tyres make the bike feel more responsive?BoRED S2upid said:
There’s quite a big weight difference between the two isn’t there? The evo is a favourite of the weight weenies. You will notice a difference if the difference is a kg or two especially up hills.
About 130g, according to bikeradar.Or the square root of f
k all, in scientific nomenclature.All the shop guy has done has sewn the seed of buying a new bike, which keeps him in business.
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