Cycle Lane Question....Please don’t shout at me......
Discussion
So.
I have friends in Manchester and some family in Liverpool, when I visit either or both it’s become the norm coming from North Yorkshire to come across to the M6 and then down to the A580.
I’ve noticed several times, and indeed this weekend that the section of the 580 heading away from Manchester has a separate cycle lane on and off but mostly from Worsley up to Golbourne it sits along side the dual carriageway.
It’s very well used, however, I’ve noticed that there are quite a few “proper” cyclists who don’t use it and use the road. Now when I say “proper” I mean those in the full kit with what look like expensive bikes, not your family out on a jolly.
I know that the usual reason given for not using cycle lanes is the condition of them, and rightly so if they are not well maintained, but these cycle lanes are very busy.
So are these cyclists not using the lanes because they are more likely to get damage? I would have thought that if they were high end bikes are they meant to be lighter and stronger, or are they more susceptible to a poor surface?
This is a genuine question as it’s only a certain type of bike/rider that I see mixing it with a busy road, but I thought these bikes would be stronger for some reason?
I have friends in Manchester and some family in Liverpool, when I visit either or both it’s become the norm coming from North Yorkshire to come across to the M6 and then down to the A580.
I’ve noticed several times, and indeed this weekend that the section of the 580 heading away from Manchester has a separate cycle lane on and off but mostly from Worsley up to Golbourne it sits along side the dual carriageway.
It’s very well used, however, I’ve noticed that there are quite a few “proper” cyclists who don’t use it and use the road. Now when I say “proper” I mean those in the full kit with what look like expensive bikes, not your family out on a jolly.
I know that the usual reason given for not using cycle lanes is the condition of them, and rightly so if they are not well maintained, but these cycle lanes are very busy.
So are these cyclists not using the lanes because they are more likely to get damage? I would have thought that if they were high end bikes are they meant to be lighter and stronger, or are they more susceptible to a poor surface?
This is a genuine question as it’s only a certain type of bike/rider that I see mixing it with a busy road, but I thought these bikes would be stronger for some reason?
For me I generally find it easier to work with the flow of the traffic - with cycle lanes a lot of the time at junctions you lose the right of way. Also if you are cycling at 20+ mph generally it seems to work better to ride with cars than pedestrians or slower cyclists
As in the original post though there is generally a lot more debris on cycle lanes when compared to roads which makes puncturing more likely
As in the original post though there is generally a lot more debris on cycle lanes when compared to roads which makes puncturing more likely
Can’t speak about the particular lanes mentioned in the op, but my experience is that generally speaking, cycle lanes are for slow cyclists while the roads are for the lycra boys. This is a widespread understanding, and in my experience it’s only British people who don’t know this.
My understanding is that the whole of the rest of Europe knows and recognises this. Why British motorists don’t know this I don’t know, why we don’t follow the norm of Europe I don’t know. It does seem plain common sense to me.
There’s also the fact that Britain’s cycling infrastructure often stands well out from the European norm by being so bloody rubbish, having been designed by people who either haven’t a clue or hate cyclists or both.
My understanding is that the whole of the rest of Europe knows and recognises this. Why British motorists don’t know this I don’t know, why we don’t follow the norm of Europe I don’t know. It does seem plain common sense to me.
There’s also the fact that Britain’s cycling infrastructure often stands well out from the European norm by being so bloody rubbish, having been designed by people who either haven’t a clue or hate cyclists or both.
flight147z said:
For me I generally find it easier to work with the flow of the traffic - with cycle lanes a lot of the time at junctions you lose the right of way. Also if you are cycling at 20+ mph generally it seems to work better to ride with cars than pedestrians or slower cyclists
As in the original post though there is generally a lot more debris on cycle lanes when compared to roads which makes puncturing more likely
My road tyres also have a tendency to flick out stones like bullets, I've heard them bounce off the side of cars before.As in the original post though there is generally a lot more debris on cycle lanes when compared to roads which makes puncturing more likely
heebeegeetee said:
Can’t speak about the particular lanes mentioned in the op, but my experience is that generally speaking, cycle lanes are for slow cyclists while the roads are for the lycra boys. This is a widespread understanding, and in my experience it’s only British people who don’t know this.
My understanding is that the whole of the rest of Europe knows and recognises this. Why British motorists don’t know this I don’t know, why we don’t follow the norm of Europe I don’t know. It does seem plain common sense to me.
There’s also the fact that Britain’s cycling infrastructure often stands well out from the European norm by being so bloody rubbish, having been designed by people who either haven’t a clue or hate cyclists or both.
This is slightly at odds with a number of countries where it is mandatory to use the cycle lane if one is provided. Germany, Belgium Spain. My understanding is that the whole of the rest of Europe knows and recognises this. Why British motorists don’t know this I don’t know, why we don’t follow the norm of Europe I don’t know. It does seem plain common sense to me.
There’s also the fact that Britain’s cycling infrastructure often stands well out from the European norm by being so bloody rubbish, having been designed by people who either haven’t a clue or hate cyclists or both.
Indeed I have been roundly abused by about 150 motorists when I missed the cycle lane alongside the road and had to cycle about two miles to the next junction to get on it. Honestly I think every single car that went past hooted at me !
Gargamel said:
This is slightly at odds with a number of countries where it is mandatory to use the cycle lane if one is provided. Germany, Belgium Spain.
Indeed I have been roundly abused by about 150 motorists when I missed the cycle lane alongside the road and had to cycle about two miles to the next junction to get on it. Honestly I think every single car that went past hooted at me !
Hi. That’s at considerable odds with what I’ve experienced. I’m familiar with the sight of families cycling along on paths while at the same time a peloton of road boys will bowl past on the road at speed. Indeed I have been roundly abused by about 150 motorists when I missed the cycle lane alongside the road and had to cycle about two miles to the next junction to get on it. Honestly I think every single car that went past hooted at me !
The beauty of the cycle paths is that they can/are be used by all- children, elderly, disabled both on self propelled machines and powered buggies, and of course pedestrians. I don’t think anyone expects to see fast bikes or pelotons sharing paths with these. I don’t have a link but I have seen rulings on this, referring to speed limits on paths iirc.
I do believe there are some paths which are mandatory to use, I understand they are a of a size and width to accommodate all those I’ve mentioned.
Haven’t seen them myself but in the 3 countries you mentioned, including Spain back in January, I’ve seen the scenario I described.
Well this incident was in Belgium where folks are upset more of the time.
I live in Amsterdam and usually try to find a route with long cycle lanes and low numbers of junctions (so canal paths mostly) It can be very frustrating to repeatedly lose right of way or need to wait for cycle lane lights when you are on a ride.
Usually in Europe people are more relaxed with cyclists I agree.
ReallyReallyGood said:
From the answers it seems no-one wants to be held up by cyclists, including cyclists!
No one wants to be held upAnd few will admit they are doing so to others.
How many of you walk around a shopping area thinking all of the people ambling around and filling the paths are probably crap drivers too?
I have several road bikes, the clue is in the name. I also have a MX bike ( a sort of hybrid with front suspension). That isn’t a road bike. Guess which ones I use on the road, and which on the cycle / shared paths? I’m guessing the ‘proper cyclists’ you see using the road, in preference to the path, are mostly on ‘road bikes’.
Hugo Stiglitz said:
99% of road cyclistd will never even get within a country mile of a amateur road race podium place but theres a portion who think they are too elite for cycle lanes.
What does having the ability to reach a racing podium have to do with using cycle lanes or roads safely? If a cyclist decides it's safer for others if they use the road then good on them for making that choice. They're certainly taking on additional risk themselves to use the road.For me, as other posters have said, it’s about giving way. There is a stretch of road i cycle along which is maybe a mile or 2 long. In the road you have right of way all the way Along. On the cycle lane /path you have to give way to side roads maybe 15 times. This is slower, less enjoyable, takes more energy etc.
In Rochester they recently resurfaced the bridge over the river Medway, and decided to combine the footpath and cycle path into an awful shared use path. Previously it was half red cycle lane so at least pedestrians knew what side they were meant to be on if you said excuse me or rang a bell. Now it’s safer to mix it with dual carriageway traffic, much to the delight of drivers.
After that case of the cyclist getting sued for thousands after hitting a pedestrian I won’t go anywhere near cycle paths that are shared use.
It’s also a pain on long stretches on paths beside (but separate) to main roads having to stop and give way on side roads whereas if you stay in the road you can just keep going.
Another new thing that’s started to appear are cycle paths at the side of the road but segregated using bollards every 10m or so, I actually clipped one yesterday avoiding broken glass in the cycle lane and then decided I was better off riding in the road. I know the drivers were probably getting pissed off (although I can hold 20+mph most of the time) but the appallingly designed bollard segregation idea was just too dangerous to use.
After that case of the cyclist getting sued for thousands after hitting a pedestrian I won’t go anywhere near cycle paths that are shared use.
It’s also a pain on long stretches on paths beside (but separate) to main roads having to stop and give way on side roads whereas if you stay in the road you can just keep going.
Another new thing that’s started to appear are cycle paths at the side of the road but segregated using bollards every 10m or so, I actually clipped one yesterday avoiding broken glass in the cycle lane and then decided I was better off riding in the road. I know the drivers were probably getting pissed off (although I can hold 20+mph most of the time) but the appallingly designed bollard segregation idea was just too dangerous to use.
When I'm allowed to do so, and there's a few exceptions in my area, I will cycle on the road because the following are more dangerous...
- Pedestrians
- Rollerskates
- Scooters
- Dogs off leash
- Dogs on extended leashes
- Blind corners due to overgrown shrubs
- Roots growing through tarmac
- That drunk bloke at 9am on a Sunday morning
So yeah, roads are safer.
- Pedestrians
- Rollerskates
- Scooters
- Dogs off leash
- Dogs on extended leashes
- Blind corners due to overgrown shrubs
- Roots growing through tarmac
- That drunk bloke at 9am on a Sunday morning
So yeah, roads are safer.
A bit of street view sleuthing gives an answer:
M61 junction
What do you expect if you erect a sign that means "recommended cycle route on carriageway"!?
On a more serious note, the A580 looks like the only convenient radial route in the area. The shared use path is super narrow, which is OK for slow users, but not for faster users. There's a mixed signalised/uncontrolled crossing of the M61 slip roads, which annoys everybody.
Slow cyclists wouldn't dream of riding on a dual carriageway, so use the path. Faster cyclists have a bit of road experience to get fast, so see a 40 mph speed limit dual carriageway (therefore a whole lane to overtake cyclists in), and think that it's not too bad. Once you're on the road, there aren't really many chances to change to the path if you bottle it.
Plus, there are bus lanes on the road at points, which are generally great for faster cyclists.
M61 junction
What do you expect if you erect a sign that means "recommended cycle route on carriageway"!?
On a more serious note, the A580 looks like the only convenient radial route in the area. The shared use path is super narrow, which is OK for slow users, but not for faster users. There's a mixed signalised/uncontrolled crossing of the M61 slip roads, which annoys everybody.
Slow cyclists wouldn't dream of riding on a dual carriageway, so use the path. Faster cyclists have a bit of road experience to get fast, so see a 40 mph speed limit dual carriageway (therefore a whole lane to overtake cyclists in), and think that it's not too bad. Once you're on the road, there aren't really many chances to change to the path if you bottle it.
Plus, there are bus lanes on the road at points, which are generally great for faster cyclists.
Agree with the above - there are some decent lanes in my area, but ONLY make sense if you are going 10mph or less. Anything above that is hazardous due to the width, obstructions, blind corners, pedestrians, other slower cyclists etc. They are basically a pavement with blue signs added. There are a few I use because it's clearly safer than the alternatives - eg. a couple which allow you to bypass busy double-roundabouts servicing a dual-carriageway, there's a cycle path around the perimeter.
Solocle said:
That's not a cycle lane - it's a bit of tarmac with a bike sign next to it. If you look behind you, there's cars parked in it. If you look further ahead there's a junction where you have no priority. It's the width of a bicycle, but you're supposed to share it with pedestrians. If you're on a road bike with narrow tyres and you hit the grass when it's wet and the ground is soft you're going to have a bad time.Utterly hopeless bit of infrastructure!
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