To pass or not to pass; catching other riders on the road
Discussion
What's the etiquette here?
Whilst I wouldn't get closer than about 3 bike lengths, is that considered bad form? Is there a time limit as to how long I can politely stay there? Should I get past as soon as possible? How does it work?
The first time I really "caught" someone was when I was out on my MTB and a roadie passed my junction about 10secs before I got there. I thought I'd see if I could catch him for a laugh.
There then followed a 1.5mile descent at about 45mph where I finally caught him going into a village. Unfortunately that was all I had and had to tag along through the village. Once we came out the other side I figured I'd recovered enough and overtook. Just as he decided to power on again.
I think he eased up as he realised I was coming past.
The entire time through the village though I was wondering if he was getting pissed off at being caught/being followed/being overtaken etc etc.
So how does it work?
Whilst I wouldn't get closer than about 3 bike lengths, is that considered bad form? Is there a time limit as to how long I can politely stay there? Should I get past as soon as possible? How does it work?
The first time I really "caught" someone was when I was out on my MTB and a roadie passed my junction about 10secs before I got there. I thought I'd see if I could catch him for a laugh.
There then followed a 1.5mile descent at about 45mph where I finally caught him going into a village. Unfortunately that was all I had and had to tag along through the village. Once we came out the other side I figured I'd recovered enough and overtook. Just as he decided to power on again.
I think he eased up as he realised I was coming past.The entire time through the village though I was wondering if he was getting pissed off at being caught/being followed/being overtaken etc etc.
So how does it work?
For me, if I see someone ahead and I am catching them, I try to time it right so I can go past and pull away, having said a cheery Hi on the way past. I hate it when someone passes me and then slows down, as if they just have got to get ahead and have pushed themselves too hard to do it, so I try not to do it to others.
Before Covid, I would happily latch on to someone's wheel if they went past me, and see how they rode before deciding if I was going to let them go, stay with them and alternate, or try and push on past and away from them. I have seen a figure of the guy at the front getting an 8% benefit from having someone on their wheel, so it isn't all in the sucker's benefit, but not sure how accurate that figure is.
Before Covid, I would happily latch on to someone's wheel if they went past me, and see how they rode before deciding if I was going to let them go, stay with them and alternate, or try and push on past and away from them. I have seen a figure of the guy at the front getting an 8% benefit from having someone on their wheel, so it isn't all in the sucker's benefit, but not sure how accurate that figure is.
I have found this embarrassing a few times recently, I have only just discovered Strava segments so occasionally try and beat my last time. A week ago a roadie was on a spirited run but I was on an all out 90 second blast so I hope he didn't think my overtake at 28mph was a challenge to him personally especially as I was just on a hybrid in shorts and t shirt.
Daveyraveygravey said:
For me, if I see someone ahead and I am catching them, I try to time it right so I can go past and pull away, having said a cheery Hi on the way past. I hate it when someone passes me and then slows down, as if they just have got to get ahead and have pushed themselves too hard to do it, so I try not to do it to others.
Before Covid, I would happily latch on to someone's wheel if they went past me, and see how they rode before deciding if I was going to let them go, stay with them and alternate, or try and push on past and away from them. I have seen a figure of the guy at the front getting an 8% benefit from having someone on their wheel, so it isn't all in the sucker's benefit, but not sure how accurate that figure is.
Can you not see how annoying you would be given your second paragraph seems to contradict your first? Before Covid, I would happily latch on to someone's wheel if they went past me, and see how they rode before deciding if I was going to let them go, stay with them and alternate, or try and push on past and away from them. I have seen a figure of the guy at the front getting an 8% benefit from having someone on their wheel, so it isn't all in the sucker's benefit, but not sure how accurate that figure is.
Personally if I'm catching someone up, I overtake and give a nod, if they then latch on my wheel and just sit there I'll ask them not to. Its poor form to sit on peoples wheels if you don't know them.
Bacon Is Proof said:
okgo said:
It's poor form to sit on people's wheels if you don't know them.
Is it poor form to snatch a brake or bunny a pothole last minute if they do?Asking for a friend.
The phrase is piss or get off the pot.
If they choose to brake check or hop a pothole, not a problem - I tend to ride slightly to one side of the rider in front and ride a gravel bike with mtb wheels and disc brakes so either nip past on a brake check or simply ride over/through whatever.
But seriously, why would you if you know a rider is behind? It’s bellend’ish whether in a car or on a bike.
okgo said:
Personally if I'm catching someone up, I overtake and give a nod, if they then latch on my wheel and just sit there I'll ask them not to. Its poor form to sit on peoples wheels if you don't know them.
I suppose a grey area appears if the rider doing the overtake has increased their speed specifically to overtake and they then relax back to a lower speed once they’re ahead. I’ve never encountered a situation like this though so assume it’s rare to encounter those kind of weirdos.
Edited by MrBarry123 on Monday 3rd August 14:14
I cycle quite often when I visit Singapore - it's quite popular out there and the typical routes have lots of riders with a full range of abilities. It seems to be the norm to latch on to others, and to sit a inch off their wheel, although usually ever so slightly offset to the road side if you dont know them.
I do it often as i'm usually cycling on my own and probably middle of the ability spectrum so sometimes I catch and take a wheel for a minute before popping past, and sometimes being caught and I'll latch on for a minute until they zoom off.
It can be fun - last time I was with a friend who is considerably better. I went along a long straight behind him peaking at 45km/h where I'd only ever been able to sustain 30-35km/h on my own. I was still humbled when I looked at his strava and the day before he'd done the same stretch at 47mph !
I do it often as i'm usually cycling on my own and probably middle of the ability spectrum so sometimes I catch and take a wheel for a minute before popping past, and sometimes being caught and I'll latch on for a minute until they zoom off.
It can be fun - last time I was with a friend who is considerably better. I went along a long straight behind him peaking at 45km/h where I'd only ever been able to sustain 30-35km/h on my own. I was still humbled when I looked at his strava and the day before he'd done the same stretch at 47mph !
Personally I try to resist the temptation to ride hard to catch someone if I'm then going to struggle to hold that pace afterwards. If I fancy grabbing a wheel then I'll always get alongside and ask if it's okay first: I prefer it if others do the same, not least because I then know that they're there.
I fully admit to being quite a slow cyclist when I do cycle, I'm just trying to get wherever I'm going usually not work on Strava times or whatever, that said I've never had any issue with others who are trying to press on passing me, usually I don't actually notice they are there until they are passing, some say hello and I reciprocate in kind no issues, for me if you are faster just go ahead and pass.
I'm not sure that there is an actual 'etiquette' out there?
People are people, and there are huge differences in the ways people like to interact with others.
Example 1. At the height of "lockdown" I was out in the New Forest. There's a three-way junction with a little grass triangle in the middle. A chap was coming up hill turning left, I was coming down the hill turning right. He was quicker than me, but the hill skewed the dynamic right there. He passed the junction, I swooped down and round to pop out right on his wheel almost. I had the momentum to carry me past, but I knew from his pace up the hill that when that momentum receded and I became solely responsible for my speed, then he'd be past me again. So out of respect for "social distancing" I dropped right off and pulled over. It was a good opportunity to switch my rear light on anyway. Later, on Strava, he commented that I "should have grabbed a wheel" for the tow into Ringwood.
Example 2. On a VeloViewer tiling expedition up Salisbury way, I was coming off a byway from Amesbury through a new housing development. I was on my old Cannondale with HeadShok, and it's comfortable on byways and bridleways, but a heavy lump on the tarmac. A lady cyclist was pushing up the hill to the main gate of Boscombe Down, and once again a slight downhill run to the road meant I was carried by momentum and ended up to her right, thinking I'd get past and be away. But as the gradient bit harder I was just about keeping pace with her. I apologised for invading her space, she said I should push on up the hill ahead of her. She was surprised when I told her it was all I could do to hold my current pace. We then had a chat until she turned left back to Amesbury whereas I went onto the bridleway around the airfield perimeter.
Example 3. I was wobbling and wheezing up a nasty hill in the Purbecks, and a slightly older chap came past me on the ascent. I wondered out loud as to how anyone could climb at that speed, and so he dropped back alongside me and paced me up the hill for a nice Strava PR. He said it was on his regular route so he had plenty of practice climbing it. Clearly he felt he wasn't "on for a KOM" so had nothing to prove, nor anything to lose by staying back with me. Then, when we got down the other side onto a nice flat straight road, he dropped back. We went our separate ways at the next turn and we parted with a wave.
I've also had the odd one or two where a rider, or riders, will turn themselves inside out to get past, then once they are ahead they have nothing to push for and I come past again. Or someone will be reduced to a pootle ahead of me for whatever reason, and I comfortably catch and pass them, but seconds later they're going balls-out and disappear into the distance. I like to ride upwards of 80 km at a time, recently doing a couple of all-day 200 km rides. I simply can't afford to burn matches "playing" cat and mouse games with other riders. If I pass you it won't be because I made an effort to chase, and if you pass me don't expect any reaction. I'm measuring my effort carefully to make it to the end of the day in one piece. The speed I'm riding at will be what I consider sustainable for that section of road and I can't afford to raise the pace just because someone faster/slower than me is chasing me down or getting caught.
But yes, if you do find yourself tagging along or alongside for any reason, by all means say hi and have a chat, even if it's just to say hello or remark about the weather. Nothing worse than a silent assassin type hanging off the rear wheel. If for no better reason than I'm 60% deaf, so I might not realise you're there and so you won't get pothole or braking warnings from me unless you let me know by speaking above the level of the wind noise in my ears...
People are people, and there are huge differences in the ways people like to interact with others.
Example 1. At the height of "lockdown" I was out in the New Forest. There's a three-way junction with a little grass triangle in the middle. A chap was coming up hill turning left, I was coming down the hill turning right. He was quicker than me, but the hill skewed the dynamic right there. He passed the junction, I swooped down and round to pop out right on his wheel almost. I had the momentum to carry me past, but I knew from his pace up the hill that when that momentum receded and I became solely responsible for my speed, then he'd be past me again. So out of respect for "social distancing" I dropped right off and pulled over. It was a good opportunity to switch my rear light on anyway. Later, on Strava, he commented that I "should have grabbed a wheel" for the tow into Ringwood.
Example 2. On a VeloViewer tiling expedition up Salisbury way, I was coming off a byway from Amesbury through a new housing development. I was on my old Cannondale with HeadShok, and it's comfortable on byways and bridleways, but a heavy lump on the tarmac. A lady cyclist was pushing up the hill to the main gate of Boscombe Down, and once again a slight downhill run to the road meant I was carried by momentum and ended up to her right, thinking I'd get past and be away. But as the gradient bit harder I was just about keeping pace with her. I apologised for invading her space, she said I should push on up the hill ahead of her. She was surprised when I told her it was all I could do to hold my current pace. We then had a chat until she turned left back to Amesbury whereas I went onto the bridleway around the airfield perimeter.
Example 3. I was wobbling and wheezing up a nasty hill in the Purbecks, and a slightly older chap came past me on the ascent. I wondered out loud as to how anyone could climb at that speed, and so he dropped back alongside me and paced me up the hill for a nice Strava PR. He said it was on his regular route so he had plenty of practice climbing it. Clearly he felt he wasn't "on for a KOM" so had nothing to prove, nor anything to lose by staying back with me. Then, when we got down the other side onto a nice flat straight road, he dropped back. We went our separate ways at the next turn and we parted with a wave.
I've also had the odd one or two where a rider, or riders, will turn themselves inside out to get past, then once they are ahead they have nothing to push for and I come past again. Or someone will be reduced to a pootle ahead of me for whatever reason, and I comfortably catch and pass them, but seconds later they're going balls-out and disappear into the distance. I like to ride upwards of 80 km at a time, recently doing a couple of all-day 200 km rides. I simply can't afford to burn matches "playing" cat and mouse games with other riders. If I pass you it won't be because I made an effort to chase, and if you pass me don't expect any reaction. I'm measuring my effort carefully to make it to the end of the day in one piece. The speed I'm riding at will be what I consider sustainable for that section of road and I can't afford to raise the pace just because someone faster/slower than me is chasing me down or getting caught.
But yes, if you do find yourself tagging along or alongside for any reason, by all means say hi and have a chat, even if it's just to say hello or remark about the weather. Nothing worse than a silent assassin type hanging off the rear wheel. If for no better reason than I'm 60% deaf, so I might not realise you're there and so you won't get pothole or braking warnings from me unless you let me know by speaking above the level of the wind noise in my ears...
PomBstard said:
Bacon Is Proof said:
okgo said:
It's poor form to sit on people's wheels if you don't know them.
Is it poor form to snatch a brake or bunny a pothole last minute if they do?Asking for a friend.
The phrase is piss or get off the pot.
If they choose to brake check or hop a pothole, not a problem - I tend to ride slightly to one side of the rider in front and ride a gravel bike with mtb wheels and disc brakes so either nip past on a brake check or simply ride over/through whatever.
But seriously, why would you if you know a rider is behind? It’s bellend’ish whether in a car or on a bike.
I caught someone on a long draggy hill a few weeks ago, but they then picked up the pace and I wasn't confident that I could hold a higher speed so didn't bother overtaking and kept 5-10 metres behind for a few miles, he'd open a bit of a gap on the downs and I'd catch him on the rises as I was trying to stay in a power zone. I was careful not to appear to be sitting on his wheel though. He gave me a nod when we parted ways and later followed me on Strava so don't think he was annoyed about it.
Sometimes you just end up on the same bit of road as someone going the same speed.
I've had it in the past where I've caught a small group, made my presence known and asked if they mined me joining them, always try to do a turn on the front if they're a cheery bunch.
MrBarry123 said:
I suppose a grey area appears if the rider doing the overtake has increased their speed specifically to overtake and they then relax back to a lower speed once they’re ahead. I’ve never encountered a situation like this though so assume it’s rare to encounter those kind of weirdos.
Edited by MrBarry123 on Monday 3rd August 14:14
I also generally don't variate my watts hugely. Though in Richmond Park where this sort of behaviour is rife I generally wait for the flat at the top of one of the rises then push on as most of the useless riders are out of breath from any incline.
I have brake tested people before who won't f
k off. Unexpected Item In The Bagging Area said:
That’s really stty behaviour, okgo, and not the sort of thing someone who’s been riding for decades would dream of doing. Live and let live
What is stty behaviour, okgo, and not the sort of thing someone who’s been riding for decades would dream of doing. Live and let livetty behaviour is riding 2 inches from someone you have never met, they don't want to have some moron ride into them if they have to brake etc, or take evasive action of a hazard.I see you deleted your post. Not sure why. Anyway, the correct etiquette is not to ride on someones wheel unless, you ask. For reasons above.
It all depends on my mood, sometimes if I know they are catching I have a few little digs to make them work a bit harder to catch me and pretend that Sean Kelly is commentating on it all....if anyone comes past but can’t maintain that pace, time on the track means I’m quite happy riding less than an inch off their wheel, this stresses most people out very quickly and they either speed up or slow right down and let me pass again. I’m only a dick to MAMILs though.
If you overtake you need to be confident you are quicker or you’re going to look like a right dick overtaking then being overtaken straight away.
I always sit behind a few bike lengths to judge if I’m quicker. Be polite when you do overtake you never know they may want to ride with you and benefit you both I did this last week overtook an old boy on a Tifosi said hi as I did, he caught me up asked where I was going and the next 5km’s we averaged 40kph as we took turns on the front before I went one way and him the other.
I always sit behind a few bike lengths to judge if I’m quicker. Be polite when you do overtake you never know they may want to ride with you and benefit you both I did this last week overtook an old boy on a Tifosi said hi as I did, he caught me up asked where I was going and the next 5km’s we averaged 40kph as we took turns on the front before I went one way and him the other.
had this yesterday, i was at a cafe (The Hub) just leaving and 3 lads on nice bikes went past, so i caught up with them (they were not flying) and asked if i could sit on for a bit / happy to pull turns etc.
The lad in 3rd wheel (trek Madone) then left a massive 15m gap so i nipped round him and onto wheel 2 (sworks venge), then realised they might think i was a dick so banged out remco watts and went off on my own.
i dont mind people sitting on my wheel if they ask, and i would always ask before sitting on.
The lad in 3rd wheel (trek Madone) then left a massive 15m gap so i nipped round him and onto wheel 2 (sworks venge), then realised they might think i was a dick so banged out remco watts and went off on my own.
i dont mind people sitting on my wheel if they ask, and i would always ask before sitting on.
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