Fellow cyclists, why do you wear black? Are you stupid?
Discussion
First, I'm a keen cyclist, mainly MTB but do road as well.
I've just had a very close call whilst driving my car, went to pull out on a roundabout, traffic was clear until, at the last minute, a man in black came out of the gloom of the flyover. I was already out the junction, slammed on the anchors, he had to swerve, gave me a few gestures, fortunately no one hurt.
Guy was in black shorts black shoes and socks, black full sleeve top, black helmet riding a black bike. I'm sure it will be someone else's fault when he eventually gets knocked off.
Fellow cyclist, why do you wear black? Are you stupid?
I've just had a very close call whilst driving my car, went to pull out on a roundabout, traffic was clear until, at the last minute, a man in black came out of the gloom of the flyover. I was already out the junction, slammed on the anchors, he had to swerve, gave me a few gestures, fortunately no one hurt.
Guy was in black shorts black shoes and socks, black full sleeve top, black helmet riding a black bike. I'm sure it will be someone else's fault when he eventually gets knocked off.
Fellow cyclist, why do you wear black? Are you stupid?
SHutchinson said:
So you pulled out on him?
I've got a black car, might get something brighter so you don't pull out on me.
You do run that risk in a black car, hopefully you run with some lights on so if you come out from under a dark flyover other road users can see you. Black cars are the most 'dangerous' cars on the road. I've got a black car, might get something brighter so you don't pull out on me.
An accident or close call when using the roads is a highlight on a driving / cycling etc deficiency which can be learnt from and skills improved. In this instance, from the distance of my computer, for the cyclist he could take away maybe they could have made themselves more visible / better positioned, for the driver to have not seen another road user in daylight whilst negotiating a hazard where other road users are to be expected has highlighted they didn't pay sufficient attention to check, and probably were going too fast for the conditions.
It's human nature to disregard these opportunities however and blame others, which is why after a certain type of accident you are far more likely to have the exact same type of accident again, which is partly why insurance premiums go up.
It's human nature to disregard these opportunities however and blame others, which is why after a certain type of accident you are far more likely to have the exact same type of accident again, which is partly why insurance premiums go up.
snobetter said:
An accident or close call when using the roads is a highlight on a driving / cycling etc deficiency which can be learnt from and skills improved. In this instance, from the distance of my computer, for the cyclist he could take away maybe they could have made themselves more visible / better positioned, for the driver to have not seen another road user in daylight whilst negotiating a hazard where other road users are to be expected has highlighted they didn't pay sufficient attention to check, and probably were going too fast for the conditions.
It's human nature to disregard these opportunities however and blame others, which is why after a certain type of accident you are far more likely to have the exact same type of accident again, which is partly why insurance premiums go up.
The last contact I had with a car, I was using a nearside bike lane. Which is already something I generally try to avoid, but I was filtering past completely stationary traffic. A car at a junction suddenly decided to turn left - the indicator flashed once, and they started moving. Nothing I could do in terms of visibility, since I was well lit.It's human nature to disregard these opportunities however and blame others, which is why after a certain type of accident you are far more likely to have the exact same type of accident again, which is partly why insurance premiums go up.
Fortunately, the car actually came off worse than I did! It was a glancing blow to his wing mirror, which popped apart, while I didn't fall off or get hurt.
But, other than never using the bike lane, that situation couldn't have been avoided by me.
little flashing light (whte) front and (red) rear helps avoid this
one of the things that I would make mandatory for road cyclists
whether it is a legal requirement or not, the vulnerable road user is well advised to make some effort to tip the scales in their favour
some do, some don't
On the other hand, drivers are advised to be diligent about looking for vulnerable road users e.g. when looking into the dark area under a flyover
some do, some don't
one of the things that I would make mandatory for road cyclists
whether it is a legal requirement or not, the vulnerable road user is well advised to make some effort to tip the scales in their favour
some do, some don't
On the other hand, drivers are advised to be diligent about looking for vulnerable road users e.g. when looking into the dark area under a flyover
some do, some don't
If you were already on the roundabout and had to slam on the brakes to avoid the cyclist then it's hard to imagine how this is somehow the cyclist's fault, unless he respawned there. Even accounting for dark clothing and a shaded flyover, he must have been incredibly close to you at the time you pulled out if it was as near a miss as you suggest.
A few years ago I was travelling back from Devon to the Midlands. It had took 7 hours to get to Worcs and there was a gantry sign saying the M5 was closed. It was 11pm so it was a nighttime closure.
I decided to go across country, following dual carriageways.
As I approached an island, I looked right, saw no approaching traffic so accelerated onto the island. At the last minute I saw the cyclist.
I slammed on the anchors. He braked and there was the slightest coming together with my off-side wing. No injuries but he was shook up, as was I.
It was 11-11.30pm. He had obviously finished a shift and was dressed in a black tee-shirt with black leggings and a black backpack. I told him about his clothing and I didn't see him and he pointed to his lights on the front of the bike.
Trouble is, they were the LED type that you don't see from the side, only when you're head on from them.
I nearly wiped someone out that night. I hope he remembers that and wears brighter clothes at night now.
I decided to go across country, following dual carriageways.
As I approached an island, I looked right, saw no approaching traffic so accelerated onto the island. At the last minute I saw the cyclist.
I slammed on the anchors. He braked and there was the slightest coming together with my off-side wing. No injuries but he was shook up, as was I.
It was 11-11.30pm. He had obviously finished a shift and was dressed in a black tee-shirt with black leggings and a black backpack. I told him about his clothing and I didn't see him and he pointed to his lights on the front of the bike.
Trouble is, they were the LED type that you don't see from the side, only when you're head on from them.
I nearly wiped someone out that night. I hope he remembers that and wears brighter clothes at night now.
OriginalFDM said:
If you were already on the roundabout and had to slam on the brakes to avoid the cyclist then it's hard to imagine how this is somehow the cyclist's fault, unless he respawned there. Even accounting for dark clothing and a shaded flyover, he must have been incredibly close to you at the time you pulled out if it was as near a miss as you suggest.
'Fault' is irrelevant, If he gets knocked off and dies it doesn't really matter who's 'fault' it is, he's still dead. If he wears bright clothing and is easily visible he's far less likely to get hit. The car/van,/bus/lorry will nearly always come out unscathed. megaphone said:
'Fault' is irrelevant, If he gets knocked off and dies it doesn't really matter who's 'fault' it is, he's still dead. If he wears bright clothing and is easily visible he's far less likely to get hit. The car/van,/bus/lorry will nearly always come out unscathed.
All your points are valid, but at that kind of junction, YOU should take more care. Something similar happened to me a few years ago, I was about to join an A road from a minor road that is an angled t junction. If its clear you could quite safely drive through it in 2nd or 3rd gear. I looked and didn't see the cyclist approaching on the main road, for some reason I had a second look and was able to stop before either of us got hurt. It taught me to take the time for a proper look at junctions.megaphone said:
'Fault' is irrelevant, If he gets knocked off and dies it doesn't really matter who's 'fault' it is, he's still dead. If he wears bright clothing and is easily visible he's far less likely to get hit. The car/van,/bus/lorry will nearly always come out unscathed.
Agreed, but my point was that your original post puts 100% of the blame on the cyclist, whereas it's hard to imagine a situation - in daytime hours - where you weren't somehow responsible for the coming together. If it happened exactly as you've described then ultimately you pulled out when you didn't have the time or space to do so, no matter what else might have contributed to your decision to do so.
All of us road users - whether on 2 wheels or 4 - have a duty to ourselves and others to do what they can to avoid such instances. Wearing black clothing in broad daylight doesn't seem unreasonable or reckless to me, and without knowing the road layout it's hard to picture how you thought there was nothing on the road if the miss was as near as you say - but he must have been right upon you for you to have had to slam on the brakes to avoid a collision.
Daveyraveygravey said:
All your points are valid, but at that kind of junction, YOU should take more care. Something similar happened to me a few years ago, I was about to join an A road from a minor road that is an angled t junction. If its clear you could quite safely drive through it in 2nd or 3rd gear. I looked and didn't see the cyclist approaching on the main road, for some reason I had a second look and was able to stop before either of us got hurt. It taught me to take the time for a proper look at junctions.
Exactly. The car's the one joining. Sounds like OP didn't look properly at the junction and somehow the takeaway was 'cyclists should wear brighter clothing' whereas the correct takeaway for me sounds like 'I need to take time to have a better look into that gloomy underpass as I might not see darker vehicles...' !Fastchas said:
A few years ago I was travelling back from Devon to the Midlands. It had took 7 hours to get to Worcs and there was a gantry sign saying the M5 was closed. It was 11pm so it was a nighttime closure.
I decided to go across country, following dual carriageways.
As I approached an island, I looked right, saw no approaching traffic so accelerated onto the island. At the last minute I saw the cyclist.
I slammed on the anchors. He braked and there was the slightest coming together with my off-side wing. No injuries but he was shook up, as was I.
It was 11-11.30pm. He had obviously finished a shift and was dressed in a black tee-shirt with black leggings and a black backpack. I told him about his clothing and I didn't see him and he pointed to his lights on the front of the bike.
Trouble is, they were the LED type that you don't see from the side, only when you're head on from them.
I nearly wiped someone out that night. I hope he remembers that and wears brighter clothes at night now.
Bright clothes are irrelevant at night, reflective more useful. I decided to go across country, following dual carriageways.
As I approached an island, I looked right, saw no approaching traffic so accelerated onto the island. At the last minute I saw the cyclist.
I slammed on the anchors. He braked and there was the slightest coming together with my off-side wing. No injuries but he was shook up, as was I.
It was 11-11.30pm. He had obviously finished a shift and was dressed in a black tee-shirt with black leggings and a black backpack. I told him about his clothing and I didn't see him and he pointed to his lights on the front of the bike.
Trouble is, they were the LED type that you don't see from the side, only when you're head on from them.
I nearly wiped someone out that night. I hope he remembers that and wears brighter clothes at night now.
You did however proceed before you had been able to fully check it was clear to do so and could adapt your driving plan for the same situation in the future.
Solocle said:
snobetter said:
An accident or close call when using the roads is a highlight on a driving / cycling etc deficiency which can be learnt from and skills improved. In this instance, from the distance of my computer, for the cyclist he could take away maybe they could have made themselves more visible / better positioned, for the driver to have not seen another road user in daylight whilst negotiating a hazard where other road users are to be expected has highlighted they didn't pay sufficient attention to check, and probably were going too fast for the conditions.
It's human nature to disregard these opportunities however and blame others, which is why after a certain type of accident you are far more likely to have the exact same type of accident again, which is partly why insurance premiums go up.
The last contact I had with a car, I was using a nearside bike lane. Which is already something I generally try to avoid, but I was filtering past completely stationary traffic. A car at a junction suddenly decided to turn left - the indicator flashed once, and they started moving. Nothing I could do in terms of visibility, since I was well lit.It's human nature to disregard these opportunities however and blame others, which is why after a certain type of accident you are far more likely to have the exact same type of accident again, which is partly why insurance premiums go up.
Fortunately, the car actually came off worse than I did! It was a glancing blow to his wing mirror, which popped apart, while I didn't fall off or get hurt.
But, other than never using the bike lane, that situation couldn't have been avoided by me.
I also know you shouldn't have to, they should have checked their n/s mirror and shoulder checked, but not many do.
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