Help me get over the hills
Discussion
I just can't climb... I mean its brutal.
I understand I'm a bit overweight... but I am a powerfully built director who can command the stairs weighing in at nearly 15 stone. (I'm 6ft)... But in all seriousness I am heavy set and my gut doesn't stick out beyond my chest for instance - I had abs at 13stone when I got married so I could cut a stone or so but not much more.
My bike weighs in at 10kg (prob a little more with saddle etc) its a steel Surly Pacer and I wear SPD shoes. My front chainrings is 50:34 and rear cassette is 11-27. 105 10 speed (R5600).
I can ride up hills on Zwift, not quick but I can do it - Alpe du Zwift takes me under 80min - the long climb in Innsbruck in low 30s.
Even though I'm heavy my fitness is ok. I workout most days - kettlebells or Zwift
When I'm on the road and hit any decent incline I'm blowing soooo hard. Climbs that are upwards of 0.5mile with gradients of around 7% and kicking up to 10% to 12% cause me major major problem... Its not a lack of trying as my HR is up high 186-191 region.
I see all kinds of lads who are bigger than me on the road, do they just avoid the hills?? Why can't I climb at all?? I don't want to be quick I just don't want to have to use every last bit of energy to move slower than walking pace!!
Any thoughts - or is it stop putting stuff in your face fatty???
I was thinking about putting a 32/34 on the cassette or dropping to a 30t on the chainring... Thing is I was due to do some credit card touring so even if I cut the weight I'd be carrying it in gear - so I have to be able to haul this amount of weight over a climb.
I understand I'm a bit overweight... but I am a powerfully built director who can command the stairs weighing in at nearly 15 stone. (I'm 6ft)... But in all seriousness I am heavy set and my gut doesn't stick out beyond my chest for instance - I had abs at 13stone when I got married so I could cut a stone or so but not much more.
My bike weighs in at 10kg (prob a little more with saddle etc) its a steel Surly Pacer and I wear SPD shoes. My front chainrings is 50:34 and rear cassette is 11-27. 105 10 speed (R5600).
I can ride up hills on Zwift, not quick but I can do it - Alpe du Zwift takes me under 80min - the long climb in Innsbruck in low 30s.
Even though I'm heavy my fitness is ok. I workout most days - kettlebells or Zwift
When I'm on the road and hit any decent incline I'm blowing soooo hard. Climbs that are upwards of 0.5mile with gradients of around 7% and kicking up to 10% to 12% cause me major major problem... Its not a lack of trying as my HR is up high 186-191 region.
I see all kinds of lads who are bigger than me on the road, do they just avoid the hills?? Why can't I climb at all?? I don't want to be quick I just don't want to have to use every last bit of energy to move slower than walking pace!!
Any thoughts - or is it stop putting stuff in your face fatty???
I was thinking about putting a 32/34 on the cassette or dropping to a 30t on the chainring... Thing is I was due to do some credit card touring so even if I cut the weight I'd be carrying it in gear - so I have to be able to haul this amount of weight over a climb.
A 32 cassette on the back will make a huge difference, but you might need to change out the derailleur and the chain.
I wouldn't bother changing the front chain ring, 34 front & 32 rear should get you up anything, at 14 stones, 5 foot 10, I can drag myself up mow cop (25%).
Once you get the right gearing, next step is take it easy.
Not sure what your max heart rate is, but ideally you should try and stay below 85% of it, pace your self up the hill, sit back, chest open, relaxed arms, slow and steady.
I wouldn't bother changing the front chain ring, 34 front & 32 rear should get you up anything, at 14 stones, 5 foot 10, I can drag myself up mow cop (25%).
Once you get the right gearing, next step is take it easy.
Not sure what your max heart rate is, but ideally you should try and stay below 85% of it, pace your self up the hill, sit back, chest open, relaxed arms, slow and steady.
No short cuts to hills, never ridden on one of these new virtual turbo trainers but real life hills are what I focus each ride on.
If I know there is a big climb or climbs enroute I use them to pace my ride. I almost see getting over the climbs as the main focus of my rides, everything else is either build up to the big climb or smashing it home after getting over the hill.
A decent set of wheels will make a big difference, stiffer frames, you could even go crazy on a getting the bike down to sub 7kg, but at the end of the day it's your legs make the biggest difference.
You could get an eBike to help..........
If I know there is a big climb or climbs enroute I use them to pace my ride. I almost see getting over the climbs as the main focus of my rides, everything else is either build up to the big climb or smashing it home after getting over the hill.
A decent set of wheels will make a big difference, stiffer frames, you could even go crazy on a getting the bike down to sub 7kg, but at the end of the day it's your legs make the biggest difference.
You could get an eBike to help..........
You say what your heart rate is and how quickly you can do those virtual climbs but you don't say how fast you are actually going up the real ones. The typical '7% gradient kicking up to 10%' you mention is a proper hill (and I say that as a resident of the North York Moors where 20%ers are ten a penny), so you're not going to be able to just put a little more effort in and sail up them at the same pace as on the flat. You will be going slow - pretty much anyone would! I know everyone's different but a heart rate of 185 does sound pretty high - are you not just trying too hard to begin with and blowing a gasket?
Aside from possibly pacing things better, as others have said the most important thing is practice and if that really doesn't work a big sprocket.
Aside from possibly pacing things better, as others have said the most important thing is practice and if that really doesn't work a big sprocket.
Bigger cassette will help
As you mention zwift... how long can you hold 186 hr on zwift? How long does it take to get up one of the real life hills you memtion?
Hills are never going to be as easy as flats, so it is about pacing: what hr / power can you hold for the duration of the climb without it being too hard for you, bearing in mind the rest of the ride... ride at that intensity on those climbs. Repeating that, within reason, will see you getting quicker for the same perceived effort over time
As you mention zwift... how long can you hold 186 hr on zwift? How long does it take to get up one of the real life hills you memtion?
Hills are never going to be as easy as flats, so it is about pacing: what hr / power can you hold for the duration of the climb without it being too hard for you, bearing in mind the rest of the ride... ride at that intensity on those climbs. Repeating that, within reason, will see you getting quicker for the same perceived effort over time
Technique plays a big part... don't alternately stomp the pedals, but focus on spinning them and extracting full benefit from the entire crank revolution. Ankling and cleats make this possible but takes some thinking about, an appropriate gear for the road speed too.
If sat and spinning, using the bar tops will increase effective leverage. Consciously avoid getting into 'nodding dog' body movement, a still torso will assist power through the cranks.
For me, keeping forward views shorter and varied ( ie looking around a bit and not just fixating on the visible top) seems to make any ordeal by incline shorter.
Getting out the saddle, holding the hoods, can work to vary the load type but will for most elevate heart rate and deplete energy, so is ultimately less efficient... that said, I ride a fixie occasionally on quite a long gear and there are a couple of hills around here where slow but smooth as you can out of the saddle work is the only way up.
If sat and spinning, using the bar tops will increase effective leverage. Consciously avoid getting into 'nodding dog' body movement, a still torso will assist power through the cranks.
For me, keeping forward views shorter and varied ( ie looking around a bit and not just fixating on the visible top) seems to make any ordeal by incline shorter.
Getting out the saddle, holding the hoods, can work to vary the load type but will for most elevate heart rate and deplete energy, so is ultimately less efficient... that said, I ride a fixie occasionally on quite a long gear and there are a couple of hills around here where slow but smooth as you can out of the saddle work is the only way up.
If you run out of gearing and are struggling you can weave up the hill to reduce the gradient.
It's a bit like the opposote of skiing, where you carve left and right across a face to reduce the gradient youre skiing down, it works going uphill too.
Saved me a couple times when i needed a new gear, was blowing, bit didnt have one.
It's a bit like the opposote of skiing, where you carve left and right across a face to reduce the gradient youre skiing down, it works going uphill too.
Saved me a couple times when i needed a new gear, was blowing, bit didnt have one.
My reply earlier got me interested and I found this website to run some numbers: https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html
It tells me that to maintain 20mph on the flat, which is alright for a recreational cyclist, I'd need to pump out about 185 watts. However if I brought 185 watts to bear on a 7% gradient I'd be doing a shade under 6mph (I'm no lightweight either!). Point being, yes it's important to pace yourself and practice practice practice, but it's unrealistic to expect to maintain anything like the same pace you do on the flat up a proper hill - it'll always be very slow in comparison. And also that you're probably not as bad as you think you are!
It tells me that to maintain 20mph on the flat, which is alright for a recreational cyclist, I'd need to pump out about 185 watts. However if I brought 185 watts to bear on a 7% gradient I'd be doing a shade under 6mph (I'm no lightweight either!). Point being, yes it's important to pace yourself and practice practice practice, but it's unrealistic to expect to maintain anything like the same pace you do on the flat up a proper hill - it'll always be very slow in comparison. And also that you're probably not as bad as you think you are!
Yep, as others have said, change rear cassette to 11-32 (likely to need change in rear derailleur) and obviously get a new (longer) chain for the swap.
I wouldn’t worry about trying to drop bike weight yet, as the proportion of rolling weight (rider plus bike) it makes up is negligible. Save that one for later to reward you over time as you get better, rather than seeing it as part of the solution now.
Check your bike fit. Not easy to get a full bike fit at the moment but plenty of advice to follow online. Saddle height and fore and aft position are more crucial on the hills. Personally, I feel that pushing myself back in the saddle an inch and concentrating on pedalling with a flat foot, rather than toes down, helps me when the gradient increases.
On zwift set yourself up on a training plan that helps you practice different cadences, like ‘Build me up’. If you can get better at pedalling at 70rpm, it will get you better prepped for real life hills.
Oh yeah, and stop eating so much 😉.
Sounds like you will never be a mountain goat build though so a focus on building power and fitness. On the hills it’s all about w/kg, increase that and you will start to see the impact. Then buy upgrades!
I wouldn’t worry about trying to drop bike weight yet, as the proportion of rolling weight (rider plus bike) it makes up is negligible. Save that one for later to reward you over time as you get better, rather than seeing it as part of the solution now.
Check your bike fit. Not easy to get a full bike fit at the moment but plenty of advice to follow online. Saddle height and fore and aft position are more crucial on the hills. Personally, I feel that pushing myself back in the saddle an inch and concentrating on pedalling with a flat foot, rather than toes down, helps me when the gradient increases.
On zwift set yourself up on a training plan that helps you practice different cadences, like ‘Build me up’. If you can get better at pedalling at 70rpm, it will get you better prepped for real life hills.
Oh yeah, and stop eating so much 😉.
Sounds like you will never be a mountain goat build though so a focus on building power and fitness. On the hills it’s all about w/kg, increase that and you will start to see the impact. Then buy upgrades!
I think there's a mental element to this - that's the case with me, certainly.
You say you can't climb, but I don't think you mentioned you had to stop for a fag halfway up the climbs? So what you're actually saying is, you find climbing hard work. Well - we all do, just at slightly different speeds. Unless you're on an eBike, there's no gearing in the world which will make a hill feel like a flat. Here's an example: I did a super gentle ride at the weekend, but when I got to Broadway I decided I fancied a spin up to the Tower. Even on my winter bike with a 30-32 lowest, that 15 minutes at 6% cost me an average 275W, which is 90+% of my FTP. I couldn't have used any fewer watts or I'd have rolled backwards.
Worth mentioning also that I'm currently 85kg which is 20kg down on this time last year. I was expecting hills to feel amazing at this weight. Turns out they don't, I'm just going up them a bit faster.
So I think the answer is - ride more hills, know roughly how long they'll take to complete, and measure your effort so that you know you can work that hard for that long without dying. Having that confidence will allow you to settle a bit more, maybe?
You say you can't climb, but I don't think you mentioned you had to stop for a fag halfway up the climbs? So what you're actually saying is, you find climbing hard work. Well - we all do, just at slightly different speeds. Unless you're on an eBike, there's no gearing in the world which will make a hill feel like a flat. Here's an example: I did a super gentle ride at the weekend, but when I got to Broadway I decided I fancied a spin up to the Tower. Even on my winter bike with a 30-32 lowest, that 15 minutes at 6% cost me an average 275W, which is 90+% of my FTP. I couldn't have used any fewer watts or I'd have rolled backwards.
Worth mentioning also that I'm currently 85kg which is 20kg down on this time last year. I was expecting hills to feel amazing at this weight. Turns out they don't, I'm just going up them a bit faster.
So I think the answer is - ride more hills, know roughly how long they'll take to complete, and measure your effort so that you know you can work that hard for that long without dying. Having that confidence will allow you to settle a bit more, maybe?
a bigger cog on the cassette will help, I finally succumbed and put a 30 on mine, but its never easy for us bigger guys (16 stone and 6' 3" for me).
I remember someone telling me to stop grinding and spin, I was in the bottom gear! some weasles have no idea how hard it can be if youre bigger.
Main thing is don't start too fast, and then when you do set off, start slower than you think you can manage, because the hill will catch you out
I remember someone telling me to stop grinding and spin, I was in the bottom gear! some weasles have no idea how hard it can be if youre bigger.
Main thing is don't start too fast, and then when you do set off, start slower than you think you can manage, because the hill will catch you out
Tabs said:
An old trick I read about years ago. Keep counting 1-2-3, and on every 3 , push the pedal down harder. This then alternates the strokes. You are then not thinking of the climb, and you get into a 'zone'. Soon you'll be at the top without thinking.
Similar to this, I have found picking an achievable point maybe 10-15 meters distant, rather than thinking about the whole hill, splits a climb into smaller chunks and makes it mentally easier as well. I'm still often slow up serious gradients but improving - often finding I am one chain ring up from what I used to use, etc. 
Thanks for the replies.
This is my local hill (I haven't done it this year)
Its a 2mile stretch average of just under 5% which has a few points where it kicks... 13% in one place, I'd say its 1.5mile of 7% ish? ... Takes me 14-15min to get up.
I think the mental element is something to do with it...I was caught totally off guard by a hill on Sat and it ruined me. Anyone who knows Surrey Hants boarder it's coming out of a village called Beech towards Alton Abby...
I don't think it's a case of expecting it to be as easy as flats or stopping to have a fag. It just I seem to run out of gears super quick and then mash pedals hard, I can't seem to get up to 70-90rpm... Maybe I need to change to spin gear earlier and then maintain that revolution??
I'll look into rear cassette, it seems to be hard to find 105 R5600 parts though!
Definitely not getting an ebike!
I will try to eat less too! ?? ??
Here's the hill that did for me on Saturday
Edited by dojo on Monday 4th May 09:59
The others have covered the gearing side and the advice about taking it easy at the bottom of the climb is good. What I try and do is pick a gear at the bottom of the climb that I can stay in all the way up without having to change, that might mean I'm slow on the shallower part of the climb, but when it gets steep I'm not at my limit already so I have something left in the tank as it were.
The other advice I'd give is practise. So get out there and keep tackling that local climb, or try some hill repeats on a shallower less steep climb, you'll soon find it gets easier OR you go faster up the climb...
The other advice I'd give is practise. So get out there and keep tackling that local climb, or try some hill repeats on a shallower less steep climb, you'll soon find it gets easier OR you go faster up the climb...
sociopath said:
Main thing is don't start too fast, and then when you do set off, start slower than you think you can manage, because the hill will catch you out
This ^ , it should feel like you're going too slowly at the start. The fact that your legs can go faster don't mean your heart and lungs can keep up. I was once told to never put pressure on the pedals up a hill, to change down if possible.As a big lump these have helped me over the years make the most of my meagre power to weight (or excellent weight to power ratio).
Little tip. At the very start, drop into bottom gear and see how slow you can get up it. Just fast enough to not fall off.
Then report back whether you got to the top.
A huge issue with climbing is quickly going above your anaerobic threshold because most folks expect to be able to climb faster than they can.
Then report back whether you got to the top.
A huge issue with climbing is quickly going above your anaerobic threshold because most folks expect to be able to climb faster than they can.
David_M said:
sociopath said:
Main thing is don't start too fast, and then when you do set off, start slower than you think you can manage, because the hill will catch you out
I think this is the main thing. If you go too hard at the bottom the rest of the climb will be horrible.For the sake of comparison I'm a 'powerfully built' 50 year old with a 34-25 lowest gear and live in Kent so it's far from flat.
Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff