Upgrading MTB Groupset - Advice please!

[blueovercream]

I've got a 2015 Canyon Spectral AL 6, currently running its out-the-box 2 x 10 set-up. DT Swiss hub, XT derailleur, SLX cranks and I think the rest is Deore.

I'd like to change to a 1 x 12 set-up and there's currently some good looking deals on the various SRAM Eagle groupsets. My questions are, aside from the gear ratios, would an NX or GX Eagle groupset be a noticeable upgrade on what I currently have? Would I need to change my bottom bracket? Is there much of a difference between NX and GX?

If I went for the slightly pricier GX I'd also have to fit an XD adapter to my rear hub. X01 seems to be the next one up but it's quite the price jump.

Thanks for any advice.

Edited by blueovercream on Wednesday 29th April 09:21

[Bacon Is Proof]

Not an answer to your question, but have you tried 1x?

I don't like it.
Not enough to change it, but I miss my 3x9. Better spread of lovely evenly spaced ratios.
It does free up the LH handlebar for the seatpost remote I don't use though.

Also, SRAM has always had a different feel to Shimano, and I'm on the Japanese side of the fence.
Try before you buy if at all possible.

[troc]

I have 1x12 and I really like the simplicity and wouldn't go back to a front mech in a hurry.

If you do decide to go the SRAM route, I would definitely go for GX over NX. The shifting is improved, the cassette is significantly lighter and also wears much more slowly. Also, GX gives you a larger range as you get the 10 tooth cog. I wouldn't bother with X01 except maybe for the cassette as it's significantly lighter (again) than the GX one but is also extremely expensive. I had GX (went for AXS upgrade because "shiny gadgets"......) and had no issues at all with the set-up (and currently have a lightly-used GX shifter, derailleur and cassette in the shed doing nothing ......)

Shimano also do SLX and XT 12 speed now with a 10-51 cassette which might be an option if you want to keep the shimano feel, you'd need their new microspline which could be an issue though.

You can also mix and match shimano and SRAM 12 speed kit pretty much - so for example a shimano cassette and chains with SRAM derailleurs or whatever.

[P-Jay]

blueovercream said:

I've got a 2015 Canyon Spectral AL 6, currently running its out-the-box 2 x 10 set-up. DT Swiss hub, XT derailleur, SLX cranks and I think the rest is Deore.

I'd like to change to a 1 x 12 set-up and there's currently some good looking deals on the various SRAM Eagle groupsets. My questions are, aside from the gear ratios, would an NX or GX Eagle groupset be a noticeable upgrade on what I currently have? Would I need to change my bottom bracket? Is there much of a difference between NX and GX?

If I went for the slightly pricier GX I'd also have to fit an XD adapter to my rear hub. X01 seems to be the next one up but it's quite the price jump.

Thanks for any advice.

Edited by blueovercream on Wednesday 29th April 09:21

I've been running Eagle GX for a year now, I'm pretty hard on drivetrains and I ride year-round so it gets a battering.

For 3 months or so it was sublime, I didn't know why people moaned so much about it, but as soon as it got a bit of wear on it, it just became a bit of the pain. It's incredibly fussy to set up, you can use the B screw guide, spend hours getting the X/- screws perfect, change the cable inner and outer, fresh chains and jockey wheels or whatever and your choice seems to either you lose 1st or 12th or get the full range and it'll refuse to sit nice in 3rd 4th or 5th, sometimes all of them. The only way to really fix it seems to be to change the derailleur, they're riveted rather than bolted together and it seems they wear at the joints and there's not much you can do about it.

Don't get me wrong, it works but if you're the type of rider who can't accept the odd lazy shift, ghost shifting and jumping chains it'll drive you mad.

Personally I'm looking at the new Shimano XT9000 12sp set-up, if I've got to change the derailleur, cassette and chain it's about the same price to buy a whole XT set-up. It takes a new hub standard but my DT swiss 350s are compatible.

[P-Jay]

troc said:

You can also mix and match shimano and SRAM 12 speed kit pretty much - so for example a shimano cassette and chains with SRAM derailleurs or whatever.

Can you?

That's interesting. I've always liked Shimano cassettes and they're about half the price of SRAM!

[jfdi]

P-Jay said:

I've been running Eagle GX for a year now, I'm pretty hard on drivetrains and I ride year-round so it gets a battering.

For 3 months or so it was sublime, I didn't know why people moaned so much about it, but as soon as it got a bit of wear on it, it just became a bit of the pain. It's incredibly fussy to set up, you can use the B screw guide, spend hours getting the X/- screws perfect, change the cable inner and outer, fresh chains and jockey wheels or whatever and your choice seems to either you lose 1st or 12th or get the full range and it'll refuse to sit nice in 3rd 4th or 5th, sometimes all of them. The only way to really fix it seems to be to change the derailleur, they're riveted rather than bolted together and it seems they wear at the joints and there's not much you can do about it.

Don't get me wrong, it works but if you're the type of rider who can't accept the odd lazy shift, ghost shifting and jumping chains it'll drive you mad.

Personally I'm looking at the new Shimano XT9000 12sp set-up, if I've got to change the derailleur, cassette and chain it's about the same price to buy a whole XT set-up. It takes a new hub standard but my DT swiss 350s are compatible.

Sounds like you need to check the hanger alignment
https://www.wiggle.co.uk/park-tool-derailleur-hang...

[troc]

jfdi said:

Sounds like you need to check the hanger alignment
https://www.wiggle.co.uk/park-tool-derailleur-hang...

The Eagle derailleurs are extremely sensitive to hanger alignment - that appears to be the main issue in almost all poor shifting situations (failing that, it's B-tension or dirty cables).

As to 12 speed cross-compatibility, there's a decent amount of info online now and the consensus is that it all works fine. Quite a few people have gone for XT/XTR shifter and mech with SRAM cassettes as the SRAM ones are lighter. Other people have gone the other way around because they like the shimano hyperglide shifting. There are also a few people out there running an XTR shifter with X01 mech.

[P-Jay]

It's not the first time I've been told it's my hanger.

Mine is direct mount, the 'hanger' bit is tiny. I can't imagine it getting bent, it sits flush with the frame.

[blueovercream]

Thanks all, some useful stuff here!

[PomBstard]

I'm another who mixes and matches. 1x11 set up with...
XT cranks, shifter and mech
Sun Race cassette
SRAM chain
Blackspire chainring
Zee brakes

Its a cinch to replace and set up, and works flawlessly and reliably.

I've run Shimano mech/shifters with SRAM chains and Sun Race cassettes form many years and they do work well together. Same combo on my gravel bike.

[sjg]

Just going 1x is worthwhile IMO, less complexity with one less shifter and mech, and with the big cassettes you're not missing out on gear range really.

I have NX 12 speed and it's been fine. Decent shifting quality, no issues, good value. I did check hanger alignment (CRC/Wiggle do a cheap tool to check/adjust it and it was way out) and followed the SRAM install instructions to the letter for b-tension etc and had no problems. The cassette is all steel too so should last ages.

NX to GX saves just over 200g (a lot of it from the cassette) and you get a smaller 10-tooth cog so you don't spin out on fast bits like a bit of downhill road so easily. Quite a jump in cost though particularly if you need to buy a XD driver too.

Cheap option if most of your existing kit is OK is to get a narrow-wide chainring and a Sunrace or Deore 11-42 cassette plus a Wolftooth Goatlink to move the rear mech out slightly. £80 in total and you'll be saving weight overall just from ditching a shifter and mech.

Edited by sjg on Wednesday 29th April 14:14

[Robotron-2084]

1x11 SRAM here, no idea what spec, it’s got various bits of Hope and works a charm.

I’d never go back to a 2x drivetrain again.

[cheshire_cat]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned, but if you change to a sram cassette your would need a new free hub body for your rear wheel. (£60-70). I would go GX cassette, but NX shifter and rear mech as then you get most of the weight savings.

Though in your position an SLX groupset 12sp is where my money would go.

Keep an eye on spec of the shifters too, if you use lever mounted shifters as it’s changed recently.

[Santacruzjack]

I'd vouch for going for a shimano 12 speed setup over a sram. As a few members have said, sram tends to be temperamental to say the least once wear starts. I'm notoriosuly hard on my bikes and kit and I'm still on 11 speed

Will be going for XT/XTR 12 speed soon but for the moment I've been riding
XT 32 ring
XT Mech
XT 11-40 Cassette
XTR Shifter (Thats what gets you the feel, always better with a higher spec shifter over mech)

This setup I have ran on my 170 29er for ages, and all my enduro bikes for ages, all over the world. I'm reasonably sadistic though.
HTH

[GravelBen]

I went from an old 3x9 hardtail to GX 1x11 last year when I got back into MTB after a few years off, I did notice the lack of gear range both on steep climbs (not helped by lack of fitness) and spinning out top gear on flat or downhill. I didn't notice the lack of top end when riding singletrack though, just roads or easy stuff.

Now have GX Eagle 1x12 which I find much better for steep climbs and the same top end. Shifting with the 1x11 was a bit quieter and smoother, but that could be down to derailleur adjustment.

Overall for trail riding I prefer the simplicity of 1x, and 11 or 12 is plenty of intermediate gears (and many of the intermediate gears in the 3x9 overlapped and were redundant anyway). I still often skip gears through the mid range, so I could put up with less intermediate gears easily enough as long as the top and bottom ends were far enough apart.

If I was doing a lot of road / gravel / easy cycle paths I might prefer a 2x though for the wider range.

[jfdi]

P-Jay said:

It's not the first time I've been told it's my hanger.

Mine is direct mount, the 'hanger' bit is tiny. I can't imagine it getting bent, it sits flush with the frame.

Your hanger is likely to be straight but your frame could easily be slightly bent. It doesn't take much out of alignment for it to play up, it'll easily bend back you just need to know in which direction hence the tool.

[AceKid]

I did a similar upgrade a few years ago, Kona heihei with 2x10 deore. Went to a sunrace 11-48 11spd cassette, Deore XT rear mech and managed to find a cheap XTR shifter, add in a race face narrow wide chainring and Bob's your mothers brother.
Now I have smooth, simple and relatively cheap upgrade that does the job perfectly and really doesn't leave me missing the larger amount of gears I used to have.

[Kawasicki]

I've a Spectral with 2x10. I consider 1x12 a downgrade.

[blueovercream]

Hmm. Some variable love for SRAM here that I wasn't expecting.

One of the reasons for switching is that I rarely use my big ring (think it's a 38) and I also want to simplify things a bit. Looks like most would support switching to 1x. I had a quick go on my mate's 1x12 a few months ago and really liked it, albeit on a much higher-end bike.

This is all very useful. I'll have a look at some Shimano/Sunrace options.

Thanks a lot everyone!

[Bacon Is Proof]

My bike (2019 Orange Clockwork Evo S 27.5) uses Shimano shifters and mech with SRAM cassette and chain and a Race Face crankset, so like its owner quite a mongrel.
It shifts flawlessly, though is a measly 1x11.