Tips for a 24 hour ride?

Tips for a 24 hour ride?

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ScotHill

Original Poster:

3,437 posts

115 months

Sunday 26th January 2020
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In May I'll be seeing how far I can ride in 24 hours, forecasting a minimum of 250 miles because that's the least I'd be happy with, and a stretch target of 330 miles because that's where my parents live. smile

Down the road parallel to the M74, over Shap and then probably A49 in the dark from Preston to Shrewsbury, cutting south east after that. I'm open to B roads but often they are longer and hillier, and sight lines on most A roads are generally good, and I'll be lit up like a Christmas tree at night.

Anyone who's done long rides/night rides/Audaxes before, what mistakes did you make or what would you have done differently, and how would you train for it?

anonymous-user

60 months

Sunday 26th January 2020
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1. Make sure you are comfy on the bike for long periods of time

2. Have a feeding / watering plan that you are confident in

3. Don't push on too much, too early

4. Read Gruffy's post on this thread (that will likely appear in due course)

There are plenty of tips on the interweb, here are a few

https://totalwomenscycling.com/fitness/jasmijn-mul...

https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/hacks-for-one-day-ro...

https://www.jam-cycling.com/blogs/news/how-to-trai...

Scabutz

8,063 posts

86 months

Sunday 26th January 2020
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Sounds like a great idea.

Training for that is just going to involve lots and lots of cycling. If you go a sensible pace it shouldn't be too difficult but comfort is going to be the biggest issue. 24 hours on the saddle is going to hurt. So you are going to have to get used to that. You will need to practice your feeding regime, at least with cycling you can ease back and eat some proper food, not so easy if you were running. You should also think about lack of sleep, training by going out at night when tied, a caffeine regime for towards the end etc.

You will need to carry a fair bit of stuff, water, nutrition, spares tools although you could go light and pick stuff up on the way.

ScotHill

Original Poster:

3,437 posts

115 months

Sunday 26th January 2020
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Thanks, yeah I'll have 2l of water on the bike, a bar bag and pockets for food and a 6l saddle bag for anything I don't need immediate access to.

Bike was fine for a 100 mile ride, a hilly 7½ hours although the final route is likely to have more traffic lights to stop at.

I'm not sure about break strategy, Mark Beaumont's strategy for RTW and other long rides seems to be 4 hour blocks and then a break, but I feel I would benefit from more short breaks, even 5 minutes every hour and some longer 20 minute breaks to refuel, but that adds up to a lot of non-riding time.

Will try a nightride and see how that goes, although I have a feeling it's going to be the 3-4am slot which is the hardest (if starting at 8am) which might be quite difficult to rehearse.

Daveyraveygravey

2,054 posts

190 months

Monday 27th January 2020
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I did an Everesting 5 years ago, starting at 5 am and finishing the next day at 8 am. A mere 230 miles but 9000m of climbing...never done anything like it before or after!

You'll need a variety of normal, real food. Take a few gels and energy blocks, and maybe the powders to add to water, but believe me if you eat too much of that stuff it can really mess with your guts, and that can mess with your head. Plus you'll get bored of it and really crave other food. I actually ate a mini pork pie on the Everesting and friends turned up with pizza and a small bottle of beer, gave me a massive lift as it started to get dark!

I'd try different shorts to see which are the most comfy over the longest time. Maybe even have a change; little things like getting out of a set of stinking clothes you've been toiling in for half a day can perk you up. I don't use Chamois cream, I find Sudocream just as effective and you can get small pots of them so they are easy to take on rides. Take some Nurofen too, might ease aches and pains from a long day bent over the bike.

Lights are an issue, make sure you have more than enough in reserve, and a head torch in case you have a mechanical in the middle of nowhere. I normally have my lights on flashing for the longer runtime, this is fine for your rear lights, and your front under street lights, but a flashing front light is hideous out in the countryside. If you had two front lights and a power pack, will that get you through the hours of darkness? Can you ride with one whilst the other charges? Are they bright enough to allow you to proceed at normal pace? Will that power last long enough? I find when I am climbing I can almost turn the front light off, but going downhill I want car headlights!

I'd choose your route very carefully. I agree with you about A roads and sight lines, but these will be much busier and I would argue more likely to have drivers who are pissed or half asleep or generally clueless. I like riding in the proper dark, but I confess anything over two hours can be a struggle. You get tunnel vision staring at the one bright spot in front of you, most of the usual pleasures of being out on a bike on a quiet road are denied you.

Pacing is key too. Start off as slow as you can, it will feel bizarre, but it will reap benefits later on.

I didn't have a strategy for stops. My car was parked at the top of the hill, and it was very easy to just pop back to it and faff about every time I got back to the top. I spent 5 hours out of the 27 not riding, which with the benefit of hindsight I would try and reduce. I got wet in the first 5 hours, it started gently and gradually built to a full on torrential downpour. When it stopped and the road had more or less dried, I changed all my kit, apart from my shoes. These were the only item I didn't have a back up of, and because it was May, they didn't dry out. This meant going through the night with cold wet feet, it got down to 6 degrees.

ramblo93

184 posts

102 months

Monday 27th January 2020
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1. Start off slow
2. Eat like a horse
3. Prepare for things to get squirly throughout the night
4. Remember that pain is weakness leaving the body

ScotHill

Original Poster:

3,437 posts

115 months

Monday 27th January 2020
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Cheers for this, lots to think about. What was your Everest climb, out of interest?

I’ve never been a fan of gels and energy drinks, so it’ll be wraps with jam, peanut butter, banana and anything else I can cram in, and a few other bits including some more sugary stuff – I’ve tried doing without sweet stuff entirely and it just doesn’t work for me. Drinks will be alternating water and Ribena, which helps with a bit of a sugar kick. And a couple of stops for some hot food somewhere, just whatever is available, although past 10pm that’s going to be limited so I might have to scope out some service stations or 24-hour shops.

Good call on the change of clothes – I couldn’t carry shoes, but definitely socks and gloves, probably a spare top and definitely a warm fleece or something. I’ll have shorts and winter leggings, which should do me through the night and are good in the wet. Enforced stops for maintenance might become very cold very quickly though.

I have two ‘seeing’ lights that I can rotate through the 8 hours of darkness, and they should last between them. Maybe a USB charge block would be a good backup, for phone charging too. And a couple of cheap ‘be seen’ USB disposable lights, a flashing one for the front and a couple for the rear. And an ankle light. And a reflective gilet.

A good tip I had on the route was bailout options if I didn’t like the road I was on, so I’ll map out an alternative non-A-road route in case the main one is too hairy at any point. I really want it as flat and direct as it can be, as it’s as much about covering geographical distance (i.e. what it looks like on a map) as it is getting the miles in; no way could I do this on a repeated loop, even a large one.

I think pacing is going to be the key to this – if I can travel not so quickly that I burn out, but quick enough that I can afford some 15+ minute breaks to recover a bit that would work best, but it’s finding that balance. Will play with some longer non-stop training rides and see how it goes.

ScotHill

Original Poster:

3,437 posts

115 months

Monday 27th January 2020
quotequote all
ramblo93 said:
1. Start off slow
2. Eat like a horse
3. Prepare for things to get squirly throughout the night
4. Remember that pain is weakness leaving the body
Please define 'squirly'. smile

stuarthat

1,078 posts

224 months

Monday 27th January 2020
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Udder cream

nammynake

2,606 posts

179 months

Monday 27th January 2020
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The longest I’ve ridden in a day is 400km (250 miles) and physically found it OK, although I had done several 100-150 mile rides in the preceding weeks. Tips:

- Ride at moderate pace e.g. if you usually ride a century at 18mph then knock it down to 16mph or so.
- Eat and drink often. Very personal and depends what suits you but try a mix of sweet and savoury food.
- Have regular breaks but also don’t faff. Every 15 minutes you don’t pedal you will ‘lose’ 4 or 5 miles. This can add up significantly over the course of a day.
- Choose a scenic route on quiet roads if possible. There’s nothing worse than dealing with traffic when you’re tired.
- Consider setting off in the evening so that you cover the night section while still fresh and alert.

GOOD LUCK !

Gruffy

7,212 posts

265 months

Tuesday 28th January 2020
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I'm not adding anything new here but:

1) Conditioning. You need to be able to stay on the bike for a long time. That means nailing any fit issues (position, shoes, saddle, shorts) and getting your body accustomed to long periods of specific activity. For a single ride of 24 hours you're likely to be able to push through anything, but the more conditioned you are the more energy you can put into going further and/or enjoying it more.

2) Pacing. I doubt you're planning to shoot out of the gates like a whippet, but it is easy to overcook it on hills and spend time in the red. If the goal is to go super long then try and stay below threshold the whole day. Bring all the gears if you have lumps to tackle. At all day pace your digestive system has an easier time of things too. Your energy demands are such that you can happily metabolise high quantities of fat for fuel.

3) Fuelling. Keep the food coming. KEEP THE FOOD COMING. This is probably the most common mistake people make when stepping up above 250-300km. Depending on your pace you may hit a point where you just don't want to eat. You should eat. Start the ride with some favourite foods but don't pack too much because your tastes change quite a lot over the course of a big ride and you'll likely end up carrying it as ballast. You're never going to be far from supply options and then you can satisfy whatever the body is craving at the time. The body is very smart and you'll crave the foods that give the nutrients you need.

4) Stopping. If you're being competitive with your pace/distance then it's all about efficiency. Don't worry about what you do on the bike but RACE YOUR STOPS. It's all too easy to haemorrhage time whenever you unclip. Stop only when you have multiple things to tackle (pee, buy food, change layers, mechanical). If you have to stop for a mechanical (or anything else) make eating the first thing you do. Digesting is easier while you're not pedalling and you can chew and work at the same time.

5) Audio. Everybody is different here but when riding/racing overnight (when there's less to see) I like music or audiobooks as a way to get into a flow state. This may or may not be appropriate, depending on your route choices. I use a pair of Jaybird Vista buds and unless I'm somewhere remote and safe I'll only be riding with one kerbside but in.

6) Oasis. If you're riding 24 hours it's worth knowing in advance where your 24 hour oasis is. 24/7 McDonalds are a solid bet. Service stations (many motorway service stations have back-road access - research ahead). If you do hit the wall at 3am it's good to know you have a safety net within an hour's ride. This also makes it easier to push on a bit further, knowing that you have another option later.

7) Enjoy it. Watching the sun set and then seeing it rise the next morning is honestly one of the best experiences of rides like this. Sounds lame but it's amazing.

There's a blog full of long distance cock-ups and no one single entry covers everything, but here's the write-up of my first long ride: 200 Miles of Learning.

ScotHill

Original Poster:

3,437 posts

115 months

Tuesday 28th January 2020
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Gruffy said:
I'm not adding anything new here but:
here's the write-up of my first long ride: 200 Miles of Learning.
Ha, your shoes at the end of that ride! That was great thank you, especially seeing the Strava data.

Would you say the top end of zone 3 heart rate (150ish bpm for me at 42) is too high for a very long ride? My zone 2 is about 135bpm and it takes a very conscious effort to keep it down to that level. I only ever take an HR monitor out occasionally as BPM is always fairly close to my perceived effort but it might be useful thing to gauge on a training ride.

Interesting about training rides should only be 5-6 hours max, I think I knew that but I do enjoy long days for the experience too.

I'd not considered aero bars - is the main benefit a bit more efficiency or a riding position that can give back/arm muscles a break?

And lastly, how do you treat downhills - pedal and get some free speed or an opportunity to recover so a bit of freewheeling?

Gruffy

7,212 posts

265 months

Tuesday 28th January 2020
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ScotHill said:
Ha, your shoes at the end of that ride! That was great thank you, especially seeing the Strava data.

Would you say the top end of zone 3 heart rate (150ish bpm for me at 42) is too high for a very long ride? My zone 2 is about 135bpm and it takes a very conscious effort to keep it down to that level. I only ever take an HR monitor out occasionally as BPM is always fairly close to my perceived effort but it might be useful thing to gauge on a training ride.

Interesting about training rides should only be 5-6 hours max, I think I knew that but I do enjoy long days for the experience too.

I'd not considered aero bars - is the main benefit a bit more efficiency or a riding position that can give back/arm muscles a break?

And lastly, how do you treat downhills - pedal and get some free speed or an opportunity to recover so a bit of freewheeling?
You definitely want to keep it out of Z3. Everything becomes exponentially harder as you move up the zones and knocking things back to Z2 will free up capacity for digestion and generally use different physiological systems that are better suited for endurance. If you're not riding with power then it might be a good idea to use HR as a ceiling, so that you're not getting too carried away on hills. It's hard because you'll feel fine for the first half of the ride but any match-burning will be paid for in the second half.

Aero bars have multiple advantages for long distance riding. They offer the chance to put the load on your skeleton instead of your muscles; they are more aero; they give you lots of space to attach stuff (food). If you plan to use them then you need to train with them. It requires a bit of core strength, uses your muscles in a different way and will also need time to finesse the fit. Definitely don't just sling them on for the big day.

Downhills? Well, you should be taking advantage of the rest really. Depending on the ride/race I'll set different ceilings, beyond which I stop pedalling and start tucking. After about 45kph the cost-benefit of pedalling is rubbish, so unless you're racing hard that's not a bad place to start. That said, I love descents so I sometimes break this rule to keep my soul happy.

Training rides don't need to (and shouldn't) be super long for fitness gains but there's a learning element to long distance riding that can only be experienced during a long distance ride. You can take all these tips as a best guess but you're always going to learn some things during the day that make you more efficient next time. I'm still learning every race.

anonymous-user

60 months

Tuesday 28th January 2020
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Adrian timmis write up on his veveresting has some power / HR stuff in it

https://zwiftinsider.com/veveresting-adrian-timmis...

Daveyraveygravey

2,054 posts

190 months

Tuesday 28th January 2020
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ScotHill said:
Cheers for this, lots to think about. What was your Everest climb, out of interest?
It was Surrey's infamous Boxhill, if you know it.

As mentioned by Gruffy, music can be a good thing. I have a small phone sized pocket in one of my jackets, on my chest. If I turn the phone volume up full, I can hear music well enough on the flat or uphill. Get anywhere near 15-20 mph though and wind noise overcomes it. Otherwise, ear buds, with one out.

Gruffy

7,212 posts

265 months

Sunday 2nd February 2020
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Being serious, dark chocolate is actually a good thing. 10g a day is a nutritional plus. Or if it's a flavour craving try cacao nibs. Packed with fibre, iron, magnesium, flavanoids and anti-oxidants.

Gruffy

7,212 posts

265 months

Monday 3rd February 2020
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You really, really need to fuel your training. If you don't the hormone balance skews and you'll be catabolising muscle and not fat. At the same time you make your body more likely to store whatever rations you give it as fat, because it thinks it's in drought mode and isn't sure when the next meal might come.

The advice is to never try and lose weight on the bike. Fuel those sessions fully and reduce intake elsewhere.

ScotHill

Original Poster:

3,437 posts

115 months

Monday 3rd February 2020
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As an aside, try 100% cocoa chocolate, or 90 or 85 or whatever the highest percentage you can manage. You get a chocolate kick but without all the sweetness, and I can genuinely make a bar of 100% last a week, whereas the cheapy stuff disappears in minutes.

yellowjack

17,205 posts

172 months

Monday 3rd February 2020
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ScotHill said:
In May I'll be seeing how far I can ride in 24 hours, forecasting a minimum of 250 miles because that's the least I'd be happy with, and a stretch target of 330 miles because that's where my parents live. smile

Down the road parallel to the M74, over Shap and then probably A49 in the dark from Preston to Shrewsbury, cutting south east after that. I'm open to B roads but often they are longer and hillier, and sight lines on most A roads are generally good, and I'll be lit up like a Christmas tree at night.

Anyone who's done long rides/night rides/Audaxes before, what mistakes did you make or what would you have done differently, and how would you train for it?
I've not done any 24 hour rides, but I like a long run out. I can say only this - my biggest mistakes have all come about as a result of off-the-cuff big rides. Whatever preparation you can do, make sure you do it. There may be things you can't account for - worst one for me was a 3 am finish to a daytime 100 milers after I had the rear derailleur feed itself into the back wheel. Three spokes gone, bent frame (old steel bike without separate hanger) and broken chain. I took some help from a chap along the road where it happened, but foolishly turned down his offer of a lift to a station. I'm a stubborn bar steward, and was determined to get home under my own steam. i ended up buying cheapo lights at a late night tesco store, missed the last train, had to repair punctures and snapped chain when I was already limping the bike home, took more assistance from a mum and daughter who fed me and supplied tea while I warmed up on their living room floor, but still I thought I could make it home. And I did. But I had to change to a more direct route alongside 'A' roads I'd have preferred to avoid, and the chain finally snapped irreparably about half a mile from home. So "know when you are beat" would be good advice, especially if you're not racing anyone and just doing it for yourself.

Other than that, don't knock back any opportunity to stop at a shop. Especially true in the rural areas where you never know where the next one will be, or if it will be open when you get there. And what others have said about eating "real" food instead of sports gels, etc. You stomach will thank you for it. My biggest ride was around 160 miles. I was blitzed, and pretty much knew I was entirely on my own for the last 50 to 60 miles, with no shops (that would be open) on my route. I stopped in the last town where i was confident there'd be anywhere open, for food and coffee at a cafe/bar with live music and stayed for a few songs. It was surreal, but gave me the boost i needed to get back on and get home. Although my Garmin didn't last the distance and there was an unfamiliar portion of the route where I was guessing how to get home at one point. So a usb power pack might be an idea to keep tech topped up.

I'd like to give a 24 hour ride a go one day, hence why I'm getting involved with this thread. I'm on the Dorset coast so maybe a trip to my parents' home near Swansea would be a decent one-way trip for me? Trouble is, I've had so many (mis)adventures on long, late rides that my wife no longer likes me disappearing into the night.

Good luck with your plans... thumbup

keith2.2

1,100 posts

201 months

Friday 7th February 2020
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I've done a few, and a few long-day riudes (>300km) and the point I'd add to what has already been said is to be aware of temperatures and navigation.

My worst ride (the only time I've ever had to be bailed out) was when I did the Chiltern Way.

The bailout was lead up to by a series of issues;

Navigation - The map was in my Garmin but I hadn't set it up correctly so it was always trying to navigate me back to a random start point. I switched this off followed the signposting. Mistake. British people find it hilarious to move signs. On three occasions I found myself having to double back and I reckon in total it cost me a couple of hours. The terrain of the route is very sawtooth. I had looked at overalls - distance and elevation and thought 'no prob' based on experience. However it's all short sharp climbs and descents. No flats to speak of. So the climbs are sharp enough to sap the energy, the descents are too short to recover.

This had two knock-on effects;

Food - I didn't have enough with me to account for the energy expenditure from the terrain - although my lunch stop was as-planned at a petrol station somewhere.

Time - The time lost meant I was riding longer into the night than I had planned for.

This too, had two knock-on effects:

Lights - I knew my front light would last the duration of the ride based on the time and the 'flashing' mode. What I didn't have power for was a couple of hours in total darkness. In the end, the light flashed up with 30 mins power left at least 40 miles from where I had parked the car.

Temperature - with the darkness came the cold. I had already had my food (and this was in the days before I worked out calories / cabs per hour as I do now) and it had dropped to just above freezing. I wasn't dressed for it and I didn't have the energy.

I stopped at a roundabout, somewhere in Hertfordshire, cold, hungry and exhausted and called a friend. I was also a bit embarrassed, having previously ridden London to Paris in a day, and solo ridden the coast to coast I thought it would be 'easy enough'.

I've since started racing 24h Timetrials - bit of a different beast but I'm still learning.

So the takeaway points from this are:

Know the route.
Know the terrain profile.
Expect it to get colder at night than you think - because you'll be tired.
Have a way to charge your light / spare light.

You will almost certainly have moments where you question why you're bothering - so answer that now and have it ready to remind yoursef.
You'll also have 'Jeeze I've already ridden so far' and 'Jeeze there's so far left'. My tip for this is - ride in the moment. How do you feel right now. What's going on around you right now. Wha'ts happening in the next 10-20 mins.

Dawn reinvigorates you.

Enjoy the adventure.