Plonker giving us all a bad name
Discussion
Coming south on The Filleybrooks near Stone (2 lane dual carriageway for those that don't know the area) in the car and about 200 yards ahead a cyclist signalled to turn right at the next roundabout and moved out to the rhs of the right lane (to about 18" from the kerb).
I was in the right hand lane which was clear and traffic was standing in the left lane at the roundabout so moved left (leaving the cyclist well over a meter) passed him on the left about 50 yards from the stop line. He caught me at the stop line and banged on the window telling me that overtaking on the left was illegal.
Last time I looked in the highway code you could overtake on the left when you were overtaking something turning right as he was.
Personally, in this situation, I would have sat in the middle of the rh lane as I prefer more space around me.
I was in the right hand lane which was clear and traffic was standing in the left lane at the roundabout so moved left (leaving the cyclist well over a meter) passed him on the left about 50 yards from the stop line. He caught me at the stop line and banged on the window telling me that overtaking on the left was illegal.
Last time I looked in the highway code you could overtake on the left when you were overtaking something turning right as he was.
Personally, in this situation, I would have sat in the middle of the rh lane as I prefer more space around me.
I copped a load of abuse from some daft bloke the other day. I was cycling along a (40 mph limit) DC with three lanes going 'my' way. He was in lane three behind me, tooting and swearing. Then, as 'my' lane split, with it continuing as a straight ahead lane and another right-turn only (filter traffic light controlled) lane branched off it, I went into the filter lane, as you would. He wanted to go straight on and got stuck far behind me in a longer queue.
Then he continued his bilious rant at me as he passed when the other three lanes got their green light. I'm not sure what he expected me to do really? Stick to the left lane then not move off when the traffic light went green, but try to turn right across three lanes of traffic? Pull over on the left "like a good little boy" and wait until some driver permitted me to cross the road I've paid all the relevant taxes and charges required of me to use?
FYI: A bicycle, as a result of some Victorian case law, is defined IN LAW as a "carriage". And therefore, unless specifically excluded or prohibited from doing certain things by statutory signs or signals, then it is to be expected that a bicycle rider behave exactly as a car driver would. Except speed limits. Because due to a quirk of how that particular piece of legislation was worded, we're exempt from them...
Poor VW drivers I say. The numpty shouting at me was giving them all a bad name. Not least for the foul language he was using toward me with two young kids on the back seat. Whassat you say? VW drivers aren't a homogeneous and distinctly different sub-species of human being, and therefore the actions of one can't be used as a brush with which to tar others of his kind? Hmmm? Yeah. Funnily enough, the same is true of cyclists, whether you choose to believe it or not...
...although I kinda get where the OP is coming from, because I keep seeing people on bicycles near me who appear to be engaged in the act of "commuting". Yet they have no bicycle lights, and therefore can be difficult to see. And I, too, find myself thinking "this sort of wilful disobedience of RVLRs and apparent lack of concern for their own safety is giving us all a bad name". After all, if it was dark on Monday night when they left work, and it was dark on Tuesday at the same time, do they genuinely find it to be a surprise when they leave work on Wednesday evening and find that it is, once again, dark?
Then he continued his bilious rant at me as he passed when the other three lanes got their green light. I'm not sure what he expected me to do really? Stick to the left lane then not move off when the traffic light went green, but try to turn right across three lanes of traffic? Pull over on the left "like a good little boy" and wait until some driver permitted me to cross the road I've paid all the relevant taxes and charges required of me to use?
FYI: A bicycle, as a result of some Victorian case law, is defined IN LAW as a "carriage". And therefore, unless specifically excluded or prohibited from doing certain things by statutory signs or signals, then it is to be expected that a bicycle rider behave exactly as a car driver would. Except speed limits. Because due to a quirk of how that particular piece of legislation was worded, we're exempt from them...
Poor VW drivers I say. The numpty shouting at me was giving them all a bad name. Not least for the foul language he was using toward me with two young kids on the back seat. Whassat you say? VW drivers aren't a homogeneous and distinctly different sub-species of human being, and therefore the actions of one can't be used as a brush with which to tar others of his kind? Hmmm? Yeah. Funnily enough, the same is true of cyclists, whether you choose to believe it or not...
...although I kinda get where the OP is coming from, because I keep seeing people on bicycles near me who appear to be engaged in the act of "commuting". Yet they have no bicycle lights, and therefore can be difficult to see. And I, too, find myself thinking "this sort of wilful disobedience of RVLRs and apparent lack of concern for their own safety is giving us all a bad name". After all, if it was dark on Monday night when they left work, and it was dark on Tuesday at the same time, do they genuinely find it to be a surprise when they leave work on Wednesday evening and find that it is, once again, dark?
It is the Must Get In Front mentality that winds cyclists up; overtaking when you know you will have to stop for a hazard shortly afterwards.
And if there were cars in lane 1 how much space were you able to give him while undertaking? I would class around one metre as uncomfortably close, and would expect 1.5m as the bare minimum...
https://staywider.org/
And if there were cars in lane 1 how much space were you able to give him while undertaking? I would class around one metre as uncomfortably close, and would expect 1.5m as the bare minimum...
https://staywider.org/
popeyewhite said:
funinhounslow said:
It is the Must Get In Front mentality that winds cyclists up; overtaking when you know you will have to stop for a hazard shortly afterwards.
...and then the cyclist will overtake you right back, with their Must Get Back In Front mentality? Pot/kettle!funinhounslow said:
popeyewhite said:
funinhounslow said:
It is the Must Get In Front mentality that winds cyclists up; overtaking when you know you will have to stop for a hazard shortly afterwards.
...and then the cyclist will overtake you right back, with their Must Get Back In Front mentality? Pot/kettle!
IJWS15 said:
I was in the right hand lane which was clear...
Apart from the cyclist in it. IJWS15 said:
Personally, in this situation, I would have sat in the middle of the rh lane as I prefer more space around me.
So you know that people pushing past is something you would want to prevent others from doing, yet you are willing to do exactly that, then blaming the cyclist for you doing it? And after all that it was for nothing as he caught you at the roundabout anyway.Who is the plonker here?
50yds will have taken no more than 4-5 seconds to cover on a bike.
Congratulations - you saved yourself almost 2 seconds on your journey - plus you irritated a guy on a bike AND got yourself worked up enough to post about it on an internet forum.
I'm 100 percent certain if roles were reversed you'd be on here angry that some bloke in a car undertook you less than 50yds from a roundabout.
Just stop being so silly.
Congratulations - you saved yourself almost 2 seconds on your journey - plus you irritated a guy on a bike AND got yourself worked up enough to post about it on an internet forum.
I'm 100 percent certain if roles were reversed you'd be on here angry that some bloke in a car undertook you less than 50yds from a roundabout.
Just stop being so silly.
Gazzab said:
You put his life at risk with such am overtake ie too close. If I was him I would have ridden pretty much in the centre of that lane to avoid giving a senseless driver the opportunity to put me at risk.
We need to move away from this current obsession with close passing, IMHO there's nothing wrong with a vehicle sliding passed if the driver is fully aware of the cyclist and the speed differential is low, how is that any different to a cyclist sliding passed slower vehicles? Do cyclists give them 1.5m?Edited by Mr Ted on Tuesday 24th December 09:01
Mr Ted said:
Gazzab said:
You put his life at risk with such am overtake ie too close. If I was him I would have ridden pretty much in the centre of that lane to avoid giving a senseless driver the opportunity to put me at risk.
We need to move away from this current obsession with close passing, IMHO there's nothing wrong with a vehicle sliding passed if the driver is fully aware of the cyclist and the speed differential is low, how is that any different to a cyclist sliding passed slower vehicles? Do cyclists give them 1.5m?Edited by Mr Ted on Tuesday 24th December 09:01
- is the cyclist doing less than 15 mph?
- is the car doing less than 20 mph?
- is the cyclist going to hold me up for more than 30 seconds?
- is the driver fully aware of the cyclist (!!??)
- is the cyclist experienced and likely to be ok with a close overtake.
- are there no pot holes or big drains in front of the cyclist?
- are there no other cyclists, junctions, pedestrians etc around
- oh sod that the cyclist is holding me up and I must overtake now despite the double white lines, the blind bend, the risk to life etc
Mr Ted said:
We need to move away from this current obsession with close passing, IMHO there's nothing wrong with a vehicle sliding passed if the driver is fully aware of the cyclist and the speed differential is low, how is that any different to a cyclist sliding passed slower vehicles? Do cyclists give them 1.5m?
It's not, you're quite correct. Expect to be vilified. popeyewhite said:
Mr Ted said:
We need to move away from this current obsession with close passing, IMHO there's nothing wrong with a vehicle sliding passed if the driver is fully aware of the cyclist and the speed differential is low, how is that any different to a cyclist sliding passed slower vehicles? Do cyclists give them 1.5m?
It's not, you're quite correct. Expect to be vilified. Then report back and let us know how you found the experience. You may find your perspective of the same event is different depending on whether you’re in a car or on a bike.
Close passing is a serious issue. Indeed the Met and West Midlands police have operations specifically to catch this behaviour.
funinhounslow said:
popeyewhite said:
Mr Ted said:
We need to move away from this current obsession with close passing, IMHO there's nothing wrong with a vehicle sliding passed if the driver is fully aware of the cyclist and the speed differential is low, how is that any different to a cyclist sliding passed slower vehicles? Do cyclists give them 1.5m?
It's not, you're quite correct. Expect to be vilified. Then report back and let us know how you found the experience. You may find your perspective of the same event is different depending on whether you’re in a car or on a bike.
Close passing is a serious issue. Indeed the Met and West Midlands police have operations specifically to catch this behaviour.
May I respectfully suggest that you have completely missed my point that the current obsession is , in my view, detrimental as it focus's road safety on a singular aspect that , while it may make you uncomfortable being passed closely, there are many more other hazards out there.
My point was also relating to slow passing as might be experienced in congestion and not the case where there is a significant speed differential.
I think if you re-read my post that should have been quite obvious!
Mr Ted said:
I have been cycling for 50 years, motorcycling for 45 and have a huge experience of being a vulnerable road user covering thousands of miles a year cycling!
May I respectfully suggest that you have completely missed my point that the current obsession is , in my view, detrimental as it focus's road safety on a singular aspect that , while it may make you uncomfortable being passed closely, there are many more other hazards out there.
My point was also relating to slow passing as might be experienced in congestion and not the case where there is a significant speed differential.
I think if you re-read my post that should have been quite obvious!
It’s not about the ‘many more hazards’, it’s specifically related to dangerous driving and not giving cyclists enough space. May I respectfully suggest that you have completely missed my point that the current obsession is , in my view, detrimental as it focus's road safety on a singular aspect that , while it may make you uncomfortable being passed closely, there are many more other hazards out there.
My point was also relating to slow passing as might be experienced in congestion and not the case where there is a significant speed differential.
I think if you re-read my post that should have been quite obvious!
And it’s a legal requirement - 3 points if you don’t obey.
Mr Ted said:
funinhounslow said:
popeyewhite said:
Mr Ted said:
We need to move away from this current obsession with close passing, IMHO there's nothing wrong with a vehicle sliding passed if the driver is fully aware of the cyclist and the speed differential is low, how is that any different to a cyclist sliding passed slower vehicles? Do cyclists give them 1.5m?
It's not, you're quite correct. Expect to be vilified. Then report back and let us know how you found the experience. You may find your perspective of the same event is different depending on whether you’re in a car or on a bike.
Close passing is a serious issue. Indeed the Met and West Midlands police have operations specifically to catch this behaviour.
May I respectfully suggest that you have completely missed my point that the current obsession is , in my view, detrimental as it focus's road safety on a singular aspect that , while it may make you uncomfortable being passed closely, there are many more other hazards out there.
My point was also relating to slow passing as might be experienced in congestion and not the case where there is a significant speed differential.
I think if you re-read my post that should have been quite obvious!
Personally I would like to see a campaign centered on this aspect of road safety which is why I am concerned that the 'close passing' issue is dominating current road safety policy.
Merry Christmas all and I hope you all have some rides planned to burn up the festive excesses !!
Mr Ted said:
I have been cycling for 50 years, motorcycling for 45 and have a huge experience of being a vulnerable road user covering thousands of miles a year cycling!
May I respectfully suggest that you have completely missed my point that the current obsession is , in my view, detrimental as it focus's road safety on a singular aspect that , while it may make you uncomfortable being passed closely, there are many more other hazards out there.
My point was also relating to slow passing as might be experienced in congestion and not the case where there is a significant speed differential.
I think if you re-read my post that should have been quite obvious!
If there is congestion and no “ significant speed differential” between you and the cyclist why on earth are you trying to squeeze past? Surely it’s better to hang back, wait for the road to clear then overtake?May I respectfully suggest that you have completely missed my point that the current obsession is , in my view, detrimental as it focus's road safety on a singular aspect that , while it may make you uncomfortable being passed closely, there are many more other hazards out there.
My point was also relating to slow passing as might be experienced in congestion and not the case where there is a significant speed differential.
I think if you re-read my post that should have been quite obvious!
This is the very definition of the MGIF mentality I moaned about earlier!
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