Unable to index Force 1x
Discussion
I'm running Force 1x on my Space Chicken that I helped build at Planet X so I know that the cable routing is optimal along with the mech hanger being straight.
Several weeks on it's becoming apparent that the indexing is somewhat s
t despite me fettling it.
On the bottom half of the cassette I can get it running fine but towards the top end it's a lot lazier to shift and the mech feels reluctant and heavy to shift up. Adjusting to make it smoother there results in the bottom of the cassette being poor at shifting.
Today I checked the H, L and B screws and I'm confident they are setup correctly, I also spent a lot of time trying to fine tune the cable tension to no avail.
I'm thinking there is a friction issue somewhere
When in the lowest gear it's possible to hold the shifter as if it wants to move at least one more gear, it also takes several clicks to make it move to a higher gear.
Help!
Several weeks on it's becoming apparent that the indexing is somewhat s
t despite me fettling it.On the bottom half of the cassette I can get it running fine but towards the top end it's a lot lazier to shift and the mech feels reluctant and heavy to shift up. Adjusting to make it smoother there results in the bottom of the cassette being poor at shifting.
Today I checked the H, L and B screws and I'm confident they are setup correctly, I also spent a lot of time trying to fine tune the cable tension to no avail.
I'm thinking there is a friction issue somewhere
When in the lowest gear it's possible to hold the shifter as if it wants to move at least one more gear, it also takes several clicks to make it move to a higher gear.
Help!
That sounds exactly like my Space Chicken (with Rival 1). I've never had a road bike or a SRAM drivetrain before so I though maybe it was normal... certainly not nearly as nice as the XT setup on my mountain bike.
Cable tension does sound like it may be the problem:
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/tech-tuesday-sram-re...
Cable tension does sound like it may be the problem:
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/tech-tuesday-sram-re...
Very odd. I have had an On-One Pickenfilck from Planet-X for 4 years and I have found SRAM Force 1 to be the least troublesome gear setup I have ever used and the easiest to get dialled in. I have done 15000km and just replaced the gear cable for the second time.
Does the Space Chicken have internal cable routing or have you replaced the cable inners without changing the outers? The reaseon why I ask is that SRAM use a smaller diameter cable to Shimano - on my road bike my LBS use a Shimano cable which caused lots of issues. They told me the shifting was because the rear deraillieur was worn out and when a new one didn't fix it told me it must be an interan cable routing issue with the frame... At this point I id some investigation and discovered that they had used the wrong cable, using a SRAM cable fixed things.
One other thing to note is that 11 speed chains on 1X don't seam to last in the winter with the gritty/muddy forest riding, so check for chain wear regularly.
Does the Space Chicken have internal cable routing or have you replaced the cable inners without changing the outers? The reaseon why I ask is that SRAM use a smaller diameter cable to Shimano - on my road bike my LBS use a Shimano cable which caused lots of issues. They told me the shifting was because the rear deraillieur was worn out and when a new one didn't fix it told me it must be an interan cable routing issue with the frame... At this point I id some investigation and discovered that they had used the wrong cable, using a SRAM cable fixed things.
One other thing to note is that 11 speed chains on 1X don't seam to last in the winter with the gritty/muddy forest riding, so check for chain wear regularly.
jesusbuiltmycar said:
Very odd. I have had an On-One Pickenfilck from Planet-X for 4 years and I have found SRAM Force 1 to be the least troublesome gear setup I have ever used and the easiest to get dialled in. I have done 15000km and just replaced the gear cable for the second time.
Does the Space Chicken have internal cable routing or have you replaced the cable inners without changing the outers? The reaseon why I ask is that SRAM use a smaller diameter cable to Shimano - on my road bike my LBS use a Shimano cable which caused lots of issues. They told me the shifting was because the rear deraillieur was worn out and when a new one didn't fix it told me it must be an interan cable routing issue with the frame... At this point I id some investigation and discovered that they had used the wrong cable, using a SRAM cable fixed things.
One other thing to note is that 11 speed chains on 1X don't seam to last in the winter with the gritty/muddy forest riding, so check for chain wear regularly.
Thanks for the suggestions. My bike is still very new (only a couple of weeks and about 100km). It is internally routed but the outer cables have SRAM written on them so I guess the inners are probably correct too.Does the Space Chicken have internal cable routing or have you replaced the cable inners without changing the outers? The reaseon why I ask is that SRAM use a smaller diameter cable to Shimano - on my road bike my LBS use a Shimano cable which caused lots of issues. They told me the shifting was because the rear deraillieur was worn out and when a new one didn't fix it told me it must be an interan cable routing issue with the frame... At this point I id some investigation and discovered that they had used the wrong cable, using a SRAM cable fixed things.
One other thing to note is that 11 speed chains on 1X don't seam to last in the winter with the gritty/muddy forest riding, so check for chain wear regularly.
Did you use the perspex gauge to se up the b-limit ? I know they are sensitive to this.
Other things worth checking:
-is the outer cable long enough not to get pulled out of the cable stops,
-is it possible that even the new inner/outer have been crushed/kinked during fitting,
-are there any cable holders that have been over tightened.
-are the hanger mounting screws tight.
-is the cassette tight to the hub.
From what you say about heavy shifting, it sounds like a kinked outer/inner cable.
Other things worth checking:
-is the outer cable long enough not to get pulled out of the cable stops,
-is it possible that even the new inner/outer have been crushed/kinked during fitting,
-are there any cable holders that have been over tightened.
-are the hanger mounting screws tight.
-is the cassette tight to the hub.
From what you say about heavy shifting, it sounds like a kinked outer/inner cable.
I'm interested in this because I have a similar problem with a Rival 1x11 hydraulic system on a CX bike I bought as a winter bike a year ago.
I've narrowed the issue down to stiction within the Rival shifter. I've installed brand new inner and outer cables, tried it with gear outers to reduce stiction, but nothing works. It will shift to a larger cog, but it absolutely will not shift back down again one gear at a time. I have tried everything to make this work. If I pull the exposed cable on the down tube, it will shift both ways no problem. The shifter seems to have so much stiction in it that the mech cannot overcome it.
At the moment the bike is languishing in the garage in an unusable condition. I have other bikes so its not preventing me riding, but I want to use the disc equipped cx bike in the mucky winter months.
I try fiddling with it from time to time but it simply will not properly shift back down to a smaller cog and everybody else who has looked at it admits defeat. I'm reluctant to buy new shifters because they are so expensive in comparison to the bike value.
I have to say that SRAM 1X is the worst groupset I have ever encountered in almost four decades of riding. I am on the verge of dismantling this bike and selling the remaining usable parts.
Before I do that, does anybody have any other suggestions I can look at to fix this?
Thanks!
I've narrowed the issue down to stiction within the Rival shifter. I've installed brand new inner and outer cables, tried it with gear outers to reduce stiction, but nothing works. It will shift to a larger cog, but it absolutely will not shift back down again one gear at a time. I have tried everything to make this work. If I pull the exposed cable on the down tube, it will shift both ways no problem. The shifter seems to have so much stiction in it that the mech cannot overcome it.
At the moment the bike is languishing in the garage in an unusable condition. I have other bikes so its not preventing me riding, but I want to use the disc equipped cx bike in the mucky winter months.
I try fiddling with it from time to time but it simply will not properly shift back down to a smaller cog and everybody else who has looked at it admits defeat. I'm reluctant to buy new shifters because they are so expensive in comparison to the bike value.
I have to say that SRAM 1X is the worst groupset I have ever encountered in almost four decades of riding. I am on the verge of dismantling this bike and selling the remaining usable parts.
Before I do that, does anybody have any other suggestions I can look at to fix this?
Thanks!
All Internet knowledge is pointing towards B screw adjustment.
Played around with again on the stand and thought I had it spot on, took it out on the road today and I'm back to out of sync shifting.
My hanger alignment tool has arrived so going to have a go with that if not I'll bite the bullet and take it to the LBS.
FFS.
Played around with again on the stand and thought I had it spot on, took it out on the road today and I'm back to out of sync shifting.
My hanger alignment tool has arrived so going to have a go with that if not I'll bite the bullet and take it to the LBS.
FFS.
That Pinkbike article seems completely wrong to me in regards to cable tension. The barrel adjusters on the outer cable set the initial derailleur position and the amount it moves is determined by the indexing in the lever combined with the geometry in the design of the derailleur. The tension on the shift cable is determined by the spring in the derailleur body and has no effect on indexing.
Assuming everything in the system is functioning correctly and not damaged, and hanger alignment is ok. Then all that is left is B tension which has become more critical with large range cassettes to ensure the top cog in the derailleur tracks the sprockets as closely as possible (or optimum distance should I say). Too far away and it cannot pull the chain off the sprockets as well.
I took delivery of a Space Chicken with Force this week which was built by them. The loop of outer cable into the derailleur looked longer than I would build myself, but I left it alone and shifting has been fine so far.
Assuming everything in the system is functioning correctly and not damaged, and hanger alignment is ok. Then all that is left is B tension which has become more critical with large range cassettes to ensure the top cog in the derailleur tracks the sprockets as closely as possible (or optimum distance should I say). Too far away and it cannot pull the chain off the sprockets as well.
I took delivery of a Space Chicken with Force this week which was built by them. The loop of outer cable into the derailleur looked longer than I would build myself, but I left it alone and shifting has been fine so far.
Edited by dogbucket on Sunday 1st December 12:57
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