Discussion
Did say at the beginning of the year that if I got my weight down to a certain point and my times improved I'd look to buy a new bike and move my current bike to turbo bike as it's pushing 8 years old now. I'm not far off this so started looking. I'm still not "light" by cyclist standards but ride times, distances and weight have been improving and I like having something to work for and look forward to.
Didn't initially think aero bike, thinking how could I justify the bike being way better than I am. But with them becoming more common, they look great and will perform better, it's what I'd like to get next as it would also be a bike that should meet my needs as I improve and enjoy riding.
My only real requirements are that I want Di2 as I've never had it before. I'm open to most makes but not sure what ones are good and aren't. Biking tech had moved on quite a bit over the last 8 years. Budget I'd ideally like less than £5k which in itself is a figure I find hard to justify but I can afford. Everything I guess has just gone up with inflation.
Didn't initially think aero bike, thinking how could I justify the bike being way better than I am. But with them becoming more common, they look great and will perform better, it's what I'd like to get next as it would also be a bike that should meet my needs as I improve and enjoy riding.
My only real requirements are that I want Di2 as I've never had it before. I'm open to most makes but not sure what ones are good and aren't. Biking tech had moved on quite a bit over the last 8 years. Budget I'd ideally like less than £5k which in itself is a figure I find hard to justify but I can afford. Everything I guess has just gone up with inflation.
BMC TEAMMACHINE. Not the most aero bike but is comfortable which is really important and has features to make it a bit more slippery than most. Did a bike test weekend a couple of months back and was the stand out bike for me in terms of feeling fast but not trying to wreck me at the same time.
Each to their own but all the aero machines I rode felt ok on the perfect glass smooth tarmac of the test centre but they’d be bloody murder on the roads around Rutland
It’s got SRAM as opposed to Di2 but same difference in the big scheme of things
https://www.evanscycles.com/bmc-teammachine-slr01-...
Each to their own but all the aero machines I rode felt ok on the perfect glass smooth tarmac of the test centre but they’d be bloody murder on the roads around Rutland
It’s got SRAM as opposed to Di2 but same difference in the big scheme of things
https://www.evanscycles.com/bmc-teammachine-slr01-...
Edited by oddball1313 on Monday 26th August 21:57
Edited by oddball1313 on Monday 26th August 21:58
Trek Madone will be under your budget and if you can find a good dealer you could do what I did. I got a Madone 9, swapped the mechanical Ultegra for Di2 and upgraded the wheelset to Bontrager Aeolus Pro 5's (I avoided doing all this via project one as they charge a premium for this service).
It's an aero bike but very comfortable due to the Isospeed decoupler. Making progress seems effortless, I sometimes forget how quick I'm going until I look at my computer! Di2 is very nice to have but not essential in my opinion, you will get better gains by spending money on the wheels and tyres.
I had a Canyon aeroad before this, was a great bike but no where near as comfortable. I had issues with the finish (Front deraileur finger tight and paint rubbing off) and after sending me the second bike with issues I cut my losses and got the Trek.
It also has a lifetime warranty which I hope I'll never need!
It's an aero bike but very comfortable due to the Isospeed decoupler. Making progress seems effortless, I sometimes forget how quick I'm going until I look at my computer! Di2 is very nice to have but not essential in my opinion, you will get better gains by spending money on the wheels and tyres.
I had a Canyon aeroad before this, was a great bike but no where near as comfortable. I had issues with the finish (Front deraileur finger tight and paint rubbing off) and after sending me the second bike with issues I cut my losses and got the Trek.
It also has a lifetime warranty which I hope I'll never need!
Difficult I know, but it's definitely worth trying before you buy - especially for the budget you're looking at.
I have two aero bikes - a 2015 Felt AR3 (Ultegra) and a 2019 Bianchi XR4 (Ultegra Di2 / Disc).
They're very different bikes to ride.
They're both very stiff, but the Bianchi is much smoother to ride.
The Felt feels snappier, the Bianchi more surefooted. The Bianchi is markedly more stable at high speeds (The Felt starts to feel very twitchy above about 45mph, the Bianchi is egging on for more when spinning out north of 50).
I use the Felt for things like Revolve - where it really suits the smooth surfaces, and I have 86mm wheels - so I think it's faster. Having said that, I'm using the Bianchi for Revolve in a couple of weeks now that the Felt is in TT setup. Where the Felt FEELS as fast as it is, the Bianchi is truly deceptive, it's so much smoother and more composed that I always find I'm going faster than I think (magnified on down-hills where I've had a few puckering moments!).
Worth noting that the Bianchi cost twice as much as the Felt, and honestly it does feel it.
The point I'm making - Two aero bikes from two very diffrent manufacturers. Both great bikes but both very different to one another. You could easily hate one and love the other. So give a few different bikes a try before splashing 5k.
I have two aero bikes - a 2015 Felt AR3 (Ultegra) and a 2019 Bianchi XR4 (Ultegra Di2 / Disc).
They're very different bikes to ride.
They're both very stiff, but the Bianchi is much smoother to ride.
The Felt feels snappier, the Bianchi more surefooted. The Bianchi is markedly more stable at high speeds (The Felt starts to feel very twitchy above about 45mph, the Bianchi is egging on for more when spinning out north of 50).
I use the Felt for things like Revolve - where it really suits the smooth surfaces, and I have 86mm wheels - so I think it's faster. Having said that, I'm using the Bianchi for Revolve in a couple of weeks now that the Felt is in TT setup. Where the Felt FEELS as fast as it is, the Bianchi is truly deceptive, it's so much smoother and more composed that I always find I'm going faster than I think (magnified on down-hills where I've had a few puckering moments!).
Worth noting that the Bianchi cost twice as much as the Felt, and honestly it does feel it.
The point I'm making - Two aero bikes from two very diffrent manufacturers. Both great bikes but both very different to one another. You could easily hate one and love the other. So give a few different bikes a try before splashing 5k.
I’ve had 5 aero bikes over the last few years; still have a ProjectOne Madone 9.9 and Parlee ESX (although I’d question the Parlee’s aero credentials).
There isn’t a simple answer to what aero bike. Comfort is massively important and there are massive variations in stiffness to consider, but the most important thing to consider – can you fit / ride in an aero position.
You should probably better of consider aero bikes in 2 varieties:
1) Aero Shaped
2) Actually Aero
“If” the later, you really have to start to make compromises to comfort, and fit. There really is little point getting a stiff as f**k, aggressive set-up aero bike; if you going to put 40mm of stack up front and 44mm wide bars on – because your lungs won’t work. Even riding incorrect cranks start to add drag – take a look at all the munchkins riding 172mm cranks; that should be on 165s (I’m hobbit shaped so on the later). Same with wheels; if you are not going deep, decent hubs and with proper designed rim tech – you’d be compromising speed and control. You might also be unable to ride it in a crosswind. A bike is only really effective as a system, and the minute you compromise you start undoing marginal gains elsewhere (and as far as aero gains are concerned the gains are marginal).
Aero shaped is actually easier to do; I’d put the Parlee in this camp. The carbon lay-up is more compliant, and it’s much more sorted to longer rides than a slammed H1 fit Madone. Aero shaped doesn’t mean cheaper (see Parlee) – but can be made more forgiving AND still look pretty cool (Dogma).
If you approach with open eyes, 5ks a decent budget. I’d expect there are some decent deals out on bikes right now, Di2 equipped too. If buying a whole bike, make sure no area is skimped on. Contact points should be correctly sized (including cranks and saddles – which should be closer to TT style power saddles), wheels should ABSOLUETLY be of good quality. But ultimately can you ride in a reasonably aero position?
And that’s before we’ve spoken about helmets!
There isn’t a simple answer to what aero bike. Comfort is massively important and there are massive variations in stiffness to consider, but the most important thing to consider – can you fit / ride in an aero position.
You should probably better of consider aero bikes in 2 varieties:
1) Aero Shaped
2) Actually Aero
“If” the later, you really have to start to make compromises to comfort, and fit. There really is little point getting a stiff as f**k, aggressive set-up aero bike; if you going to put 40mm of stack up front and 44mm wide bars on – because your lungs won’t work. Even riding incorrect cranks start to add drag – take a look at all the munchkins riding 172mm cranks; that should be on 165s (I’m hobbit shaped so on the later). Same with wheels; if you are not going deep, decent hubs and with proper designed rim tech – you’d be compromising speed and control. You might also be unable to ride it in a crosswind. A bike is only really effective as a system, and the minute you compromise you start undoing marginal gains elsewhere (and as far as aero gains are concerned the gains are marginal).
Aero shaped is actually easier to do; I’d put the Parlee in this camp. The carbon lay-up is more compliant, and it’s much more sorted to longer rides than a slammed H1 fit Madone. Aero shaped doesn’t mean cheaper (see Parlee) – but can be made more forgiving AND still look pretty cool (Dogma).
If you approach with open eyes, 5ks a decent budget. I’d expect there are some decent deals out on bikes right now, Di2 equipped too. If buying a whole bike, make sure no area is skimped on. Contact points should be correctly sized (including cranks and saddles – which should be closer to TT style power saddles), wheels should ABSOLUETLY be of good quality. But ultimately can you ride in a reasonably aero position?
And that’s before we’ve spoken about helmets!
Aero shaped makes sense as the more comfortable on longer rides I can be, the faster I'd end up going. I'm 6'1, currently 105kg but weight I'm losing about 2kg a week and lost 12kg so far. I know it will plateau soon but I'm enjoying seeing improvement. I'll never be as lean as most cyclists but if I can ride something with good aero that's relatively comfortable that would be ideal. Like the look of bikes where the majority of cables are hidden away and have aero bars. The routes I do the roads are pretty good, bar a few rough patches.
I may do another thread on helmets. I currently have a Met Stradivarius which has served me well but the padding is past its best.
I may do another thread on helmets. I currently have a Met Stradivarius which has served me well but the padding is past its best.
I love Ultegra Di2. I run R8070, so disc brakes and Di2. (2018 Focus Paralane)
Here's the equivalent spec aero bike from Focus.
https://www.focus-bikes.com/gb_en/95691-izalco-max...
That's a semi-compact chainset, 11-30 cassette, and German engineering.
Whether you buy into disc brakes is up to you, but I personally wouldn't go without them. I do rather enjoy crazy gradients, both up and down.
Here's the equivalent spec aero bike from Focus.
https://www.focus-bikes.com/gb_en/95691-izalco-max...
That's a semi-compact chainset, 11-30 cassette, and German engineering.
Whether you buy into disc brakes is up to you, but I personally wouldn't go without them. I do rather enjoy crazy gradients, both up and down.
I'd personally find it hard not to just get the canyon aeroad closest to the top of your budget. Not sure how old you are, if your username is anything to go by, probably the same as me. I've got an aeroad slx from a couple of years ago, I've ridden it for very long rides (300k the day after I bought it...), and everything in between, its not any stiffer than the Tarmac I owned before, or probably even noticeably different to any of the aluminium bikes I've owned. I think there's a huge amount of marketing involved when it comes to something like stifness... (sure there are bikes that are designed not to be, roubaix etc).
Stongle obviously is right, and really the upshot of any bike that has anything to do with aero is that the bike is literally the least important thing when it comes to aero gains, wheels, and whatever stuff you are wearing, and of course the way YOU sit on the bike all has far more impact on this.
The canyon at that level comes with electric gears, discs, and maybe even zipp wheels, its hard to beat really.
Stongle obviously is right, and really the upshot of any bike that has anything to do with aero is that the bike is literally the least important thing when it comes to aero gains, wheels, and whatever stuff you are wearing, and of course the way YOU sit on the bike all has far more impact on this.
The canyon at that level comes with electric gears, discs, and maybe even zipp wheels, its hard to beat really.
I was in a similar position last year, and ran this thread:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I was looking closely at the stack:reach ratio to make sure it wasn't too "slammed" for me, and endurance.
I ended up with a Cervelo S3, in Ultegra DI2 and Discs flavour. The people mentioned in my link were able to get the price under £5k at the time.
Perhaps one for your shortlist, if nothing else.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I was looking closely at the stack:reach ratio to make sure it wasn't too "slammed" for me, and endurance.
I ended up with a Cervelo S3, in Ultegra DI2 and Discs flavour. The people mentioned in my link were able to get the price under £5k at the time.
Perhaps one for your shortlist, if nothing else.
I've also been a fan of Cervelo. Sexy bikes. Could never get one to fit though. If you can fit it, fill your boots - but if you wanna go proper aero - it's all fit.
Sometimes Cycloparcs / tracks do manufacturer days where you can ride or few (or go Mallorca and wander around the various manufacturer hire shops).
The new branded Ribble stuff looks slick, will probably get you Durace Di2 for your budget - not sure how they ride though or their aero credentials. I'm tgrowing Ribble out there as an option given FX effect to bike prices. US / Swiss high end wheelsets prices have gone into orbit.
I rode one of the first Venge Vias in this country, which evidently is Aero as it comes - scared the living s
t out of me. Brakes made of cheese and twitchy handling.
You can't answer this on the net - just get opinions / options on how to proceed.
Sometimes Cycloparcs / tracks do manufacturer days where you can ride or few (or go Mallorca and wander around the various manufacturer hire shops).
The new branded Ribble stuff looks slick, will probably get you Durace Di2 for your budget - not sure how they ride though or their aero credentials. I'm tgrowing Ribble out there as an option given FX effect to bike prices. US / Swiss high end wheelsets prices have gone into orbit.
I rode one of the first Venge Vias in this country, which evidently is Aero as it comes - scared the living s
t out of me. Brakes made of cheese and twitchy handling.You can't answer this on the net - just get opinions / options on how to proceed.
I doubt I'll ever get to sit on. let alone ride, a high end bike but I do struggle to understand how an expensive frame can be so much better than a cheapo of similar dimensions, eg a Chinese aero replica. Of course I understand the advantages of expensive wheels, gearsets etc, but apart from lightness (maybe 100-200gm max difference) and a marginal aero advantage I don't see what benefits a £3k+ frame will deliver in real life.
I'm sure I lack the power to flex or twist a basic carbon frame to any discernible extent, so stiffness shouldn't be an issue for me. And anyway, surely any marginally greater rigidity will be dwarfed by the compliance inherent in the contact points - saddle, shorts, shoes, gloves? I like a frame with a relatively low seatpost angle - but that's just a personal preference to minimise knee damage from the patella tracking too far forward over the pedals. In terms of handling, when people talk of stability, twitchiness, tracking into corners etc, isn't this primarily a function of headtube angle, 'curve' of the forks (forgotten the technical term) and possibly stem length (rather like castor angle in a car). The other big factor would be, as others have said, a function of overall 'fit' of the bike, eg its comfort and how easy it is to maintain a good aero position. None of which should be be the exclusive preserve of a high price (though a 'big name' presumably can do more aero-development which may give a lead until other manufacturers catch up next year).
Am I being too cynical; would I notice a difference if I rode something better?
I'm sure I lack the power to flex or twist a basic carbon frame to any discernible extent, so stiffness shouldn't be an issue for me. And anyway, surely any marginally greater rigidity will be dwarfed by the compliance inherent in the contact points - saddle, shorts, shoes, gloves? I like a frame with a relatively low seatpost angle - but that's just a personal preference to minimise knee damage from the patella tracking too far forward over the pedals. In terms of handling, when people talk of stability, twitchiness, tracking into corners etc, isn't this primarily a function of headtube angle, 'curve' of the forks (forgotten the technical term) and possibly stem length (rather like castor angle in a car). The other big factor would be, as others have said, a function of overall 'fit' of the bike, eg its comfort and how easy it is to maintain a good aero position. None of which should be be the exclusive preserve of a high price (though a 'big name' presumably can do more aero-development which may give a lead until other manufacturers catch up next year).
Am I being too cynical; would I notice a difference if I rode something better?
I’m also mulling over a big bike purchase with my 40th next year.
I’ve also wondered how much difference I will notice over my existing Cervélo R2 with a top end bike. I know what I have is more then enough for me but you only live once. Though 6k on a bike spend does make me wince a bit!
I was looking at going full aero. The S Works Venge seems like a no brainer super bike with the aero and a lowish weight. But the cost without any discount is nuts. Cervelo S5 I really want to love, but in the factory builds they seem heavy. Exploring a frame set build on either of these options.
But I’ve also started looking at the newer breed of lighter / aero optimized bikes. Along the lines of the obvious Tarmac but also the Wilier Zero SLR. The one that has really got me interested is the Colnago V3RS. It’s got the modern aero touches, disc, clean lines (no cables) and also light. I think a great all rounder and I love how it looks.
url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/Z7UiRuJH[/url]
I don’t really know which way to go on the decision. I don’t need what is essentially a pro level bike. The biggest gains would be for me to drop weight and train more and what I have would still be more than enough.
I’ve also wondered how much difference I will notice over my existing Cervélo R2 with a top end bike. I know what I have is more then enough for me but you only live once. Though 6k on a bike spend does make me wince a bit!
I was looking at going full aero. The S Works Venge seems like a no brainer super bike with the aero and a lowish weight. But the cost without any discount is nuts. Cervelo S5 I really want to love, but in the factory builds they seem heavy. Exploring a frame set build on either of these options.
But I’ve also started looking at the newer breed of lighter / aero optimized bikes. Along the lines of the obvious Tarmac but also the Wilier Zero SLR. The one that has really got me interested is the Colnago V3RS. It’s got the modern aero touches, disc, clean lines (no cables) and also light. I think a great all rounder and I love how it looks.
url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/Z7UiRuJH[/url]I don’t really know which way to go on the decision. I don’t need what is essentially a pro level bike. The biggest gains would be for me to drop weight and train more and what I have would still be more than enough.
Edited by DS240 on Thursday 29th August 04:52
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