Winter Aerobic Base Building - The Ultimate Stuff of Fools?

[BeirutTaxi]

Unless you are training for Iron-Mans or very very long audauxs then why would you spend the entire winter doing long, boring steady rides? (or any at all come to think of it??)

Also, to make it work (i.e for an adaptation to take place), surely aerobic base building has to be done in so much volume that it is realistically unachievable for anyone who isn't a full time pro?

This is your chance to shine and tell me how or if I'm wrong.. As far as I can see for a novice cyclist aerobic base building is cycling's ultimate red herring.

[WestyCarl]

BeirutTaxi said:

Unless you are training for Iron-Mans or very very long audauxs then why would you spend the entire winter doing long, boring steady rides? (or any at all come to think of it??)

Also, to make it work (i.e for an adaptation to take place), surely aerobic base building has to be done in so much volume that it is realistically unachievable for anyone who isn't a full time pro?

This is your chance to shine and tell me how or if I'm wrong.. As far as I can see for a novice cyclist aerobic base building is cycling's ultimate red herring.

I guess it depends on your fitness history. If you are relatively new, it's beneficial, but more importantly with build some resilience for when you want to train harder.

[Connectors]

Any training needs to be specific to you and your goals, it doesn’t need to be anymore complicated than that imo.

[TwistingMyMelon]

I normally do a steady winter club ride every week/fortnight ish through winter , around 50-75 miles . This winter I haven't , I've just done shorter more intense commuting and CX rides -
. I don't do any turbo rides nor have any goals this year due to young family and busy at work .


My general fitness feels less well rounded ,I don't feel as fit !

I miss the social aspect of the club ride , not really a fitness point though

I've put on weight , 10.5 stone to 11.7 stone . Some fat , some muscle my upper body is much stronger than normal and I've done extra gym work. I've found longer rides burn off my excess fat , I've never been this heavy in 10 years.

Overall I say they are very much worth it . I've been riding all my life so shouldn't take too long to get longer distance fitness back .

I also find longer rides good for stress reduction .

Each to their own , everyone is different it's been interesting seeing how not doing longer rides has affected me this year through winter

[BeirutTaxi]

Connectors said:

Any training needs to be specific to you and your goals, it doesn’t need to be anymore complicated than that imo.

Surely the word training should be abolished and replaced with 'specific overloading'?

In that sense I don't see what long steady rides deliver for amateur athletes apart from an enjoyment factor.

[Connectors]

BeirutTaxi said:

In that sense I don't see what long steady rides deliver for amateur athletes apart from an enjoyment factor.

IMO they don’t, but people like to copy the pro cyclists without asking questions.

[FukeLreeman]

By all means, go and put in 1000TSS week after week in NOV/DEC/JAN, but come race season, youre body will be broken, and you'll be fatigued as.

Train to peak for the event you have in mind, regardless of time of year.

[Barga]

BeirutTaxi said:

Unless you are training for Iron-Mans or very very long audauxs then why would you spend the entire winter doing long, boring steady rides? (or any at all come to think of it??)

Also, to make it work (i.e for an adaptation to take place), surely aerobic base building has to be done in so much volume that it is realistically unachievable for anyone who isn't a full time pro?

This is your chance to shine and tell me how or if I'm wrong.. As far as I can see for a novice cyclist aerobic base building is cycling's ultimate red herring.

It all depends on your goals!
If you want to be a sub 20min 10 mile TTer then thousands of miles at 16mph are going to do you no good at all but if you are wanting to complete a 100 mile sportive then doing plenty 70-80 mile winter rides will be a very good base!
I would not discount getting plenty winter miles in as it will stand you in good stead when you start to do intervals to up your FTP.

[Gruffy]

BeirutTaxi said:

Unless you are training for Iron-Mans or very very long audauxs then why would you spend the entire winter doing long, boring steady rides? (or any at all come to think of it??)

Also, to make it work (i.e for an adaptation to take place), surely aerobic base building has to be done in so much volume that it is realistically unachievable for anyone who isn't a full time pro?

This is your chance to shine and tell me how or if I'm wrong.. As far as I can see for a novice cyclist aerobic base building is cycling's ultimate red herring.

I'd agree, largely. Traditional zone 2 base training is still very effective but only if it's done in a fairly substantial volume. That's fine if you're a pro and you get to do that in warmer climes for 20+ hours per week. It's unlikely to be the most efficient (or enjoyable) use of your training time if you're riding 10 hours a week in Blighty.

I'm in the awkward place of riding less than 10 hours recently but with all of my A-events relying on Z2 race pace. It's a slightly deliberate twist though. I'm currently n=1 and it's my speed-focused Canyon Aeroad - not a great winter mile muncher - so I'm taking the opportunity to concentrate on intensity and hoping that my endurance base will carry over from previous seasons. Seems to be working. I'll find out in a few weeks when I start my longer PBP qualifiers.

[anonymous-user]

Does depend on time available for sure and higher intensity can substitute for time in most cases

Some interesting physiological things happen on long, low intensity rides though

[keith2.2]

Gruffy said:

I'm in the awkward place of riding less than 10 hours recently but with all of my A-events relying on Z2 race pace. It's a slightly deliberate twist though. I'm currently n=1 and it's my speed-focused Canyon Aeroad - not a great winter mile muncher - so I'm taking the opportunity to concentrate on intensity and hoping that my endurance base will carry over from previous seasons. Seems to be working. I'll find out in a few weeks when I start my longer PBP qualifiers.

Similar position - I trained up to a 24h TT last Oct and then tried to maintain that as a base level of fitness. With a view to the same event again this year, I've got a 12hr coming up next weekend that I entered 3 weeks ago as a spur-of-the-moment progress marker.

I've ridden more in general, but haven't ridden longer than 5hrs since October. PB's on flats and climbs have been tumbling over that period and my ftp has increased by probably 20pc and my Z2 power is up also - due to the higher frequency of rides and some higher intensity short ones.

Will that be of any use whatsoever, or will I find I get to 7hrs and have a sudden drop in form versus the first 12hrs of the 24. I'll let you know this time next week.

[Parsnip]

Speedwork is the icing and the cherry. Base miles is the cake.

No use for a load of cherrys and icing if you don't have a cake to put them on.

[Barga]

Parsnip said:

Speedwork is the icing and the cherry. Base miles is the cake.

No use for a load of cherrys and icing if you don't have a cake to put them on.

Is the correct answer.

[okgo]

Yeh, probably something like that.

I never really did 'base miles' in the conventional sense. But there was certainly less intensity in winter than in summer when races were making up the bulk of my 'training' so to speak.

Depends what you're training for obviously, but to add to the above, no point having an amazing short burst of power if you don't have the endurance to get to the point in the race where you need to use it.

[Gruffy]

I'm icing last year's cake

[Barga]

Gruffy said:

I'm icing last year's cake

It’s a large cake!

[Gruffy]

keith2.2 said:

I've ridden more in general, but haven't ridden longer than 5hrs since October. PB's on flats and climbs have been tumbling over that period and my ftp has increased by probably 20pc and my Z2 power is up also - due to the higher frequency of rides and some higher intensity short ones.

Will that be of any use whatsoever, or will I find I get to 7hrs and have a sudden drop in form versus the first 12hrs of the 24. I'll let you know this time next week.

Rides over 5 hours are more for learning than for training adaptation. If you've already banked a decent amount learning I wouldn't stress about that at all. Base does seem to carry over if it's substantial enough. A 4 month break last autumn/winter didn't seem to have much impact on my endurance; just conditioning and top end.

My periodisation is a bit unconventional. I get plenty of base miles out of my summers. Audaxes, Trans Am, Sunday club rides. I'm still getting intensity in there but it's usually just 1-2 per week. This winter I've spared myself the LSD rides and kept it largely to speed work, with a 2 hour Z2 ride on Fridays. Threshold has bumped by 15-20W after being static for two years. Strength has improved and the cost of hills has gone down. I'm hoping to see some payoff when I get back to the longer stuff, assuming I haven't lost a step in endurance. I still have 4 months to build that before my first A-race anyway.

BTW, a 20 percent bump in FTP would be exceptional if measured correctly at both ends, unless it's a beginner. Depends how you're testing but learning how to pace will probably account for a lot of that improvement. It's likely that your earlier test was under-reading your real FTP.

[BeirutTaxi]

JPJPJP said:

Some interesting physiological things happen on long, low intensity rides though

That's the part I can't make sense of though.. How can 'physiological things' happen in the context of a novice doing low intensity rides at low volumes per week (e.g. 3 hours per ride at IF 0.65, X2 of these rides per week max).

[okgo]

BeirutTaxi said:

That's the part I can't make sense of though.. How can 'physiological things' happen in the context of a novice doing low intensity rides at low volumes per week (e.g. 3 hours per ride at IF 0.65, X2 of these rides per week max).

Google it - there will be plenty out there on it.

Mitochondria etc etc

Edited by okgo on Tuesday 12th March 09:19

[anonymous-user]

BeirutTaxi said:

That's the part I can't make sense of though.. How can 'physiological things' happen in the context of a novice doing low intensity rides at low volumes per week (e.g. 3 hours per ride at IF 0.65, X2 of these rides per week max).

It isn't just the novice that benefits. In fact, the more trained the individual is, the more likely that long steady state stuff can be beneficial as a part of their overall training plan

Aerobic efficiency and aerobic capacity are both developed and both make a big contribution to the effectiveness of, capacity for and recovery from higher intensity training.

I don't think a time crunched training plan allows for it. But,where time allows more training, it certainly has an important place. If only 6 hours a week are available, then the number of weeks in which anyone would do 3 hour low intensity rides is very low (if at all). But if 16 hours a week are available, 3+ hour low intensity sessions could feature almost every week to great benefit