Electric bike trial
Discussion
So I discovered that Bristol City Council will lend electric bikes for two weeks for free (£250 returnable deposit) to anyone living or working in the neighbouring counties. You just need to collect from the Create Centre next to the Cumberland Basin:
https://betterbybike.info/start-cycling/get-a-bike...
So borrowed one on Wednesday with the intention of using it to commute the 9 miles to work. Bottled it yesterday as it was drizzling when I walked out of the house!
Now my reasons for this trial are threefold - 1. I am getting older and heavier. 2. I have a fairly fancy road bike but never use it. 3. There is no shower at work and I'm not going to spend extra time getting into and out of lycra and using wet wipes to smell passable.
Now 2 and 3 might change if the ebike unlocks my fitness/motivation but let's assume not for now.
The loan bike itself is a fairly heavy steel hybrid bike that Jakes Cycles in Bristol have converted to electric with a Pandabikes kit. It's pretty solid as you'd expect for a loan bike. The motor is in the rear hub and the battery is mounted over the rear wheel under the parcel rack. Which means ALL the weight is over the rear wheel and the bike doesn't like bends or bumps.
So I've just done the first proper ride to work and first impressions:
- It's great up hills. Obviously it takes the strain out of the big hills but all those little inclines that put the burn into my thighs and make me tired are smoothed out. I still had to pedal but the steep bits became like shallow bits and the shallow bits like the flat.
- What surprised me was the flat bits and the downhills. The bike will not happily do more than 18kph. The motor actively brakes you after that so there is no point at all in putting in any more effort. Downhills you slowly pedal to keep the assistance engaged but you cannot put any more into it as you are fighting the motor.
So my plan is this - if I stick at the commuting for the next two weeks, I'm going to get an electric bike - but it needs to address the freewheeling/speed limit issue. I've had a go on a ebike with a crank mounted bosch motor and that seemed better (but it was only a 5 minute ride in the suburbs) but I'm very interested to know other people's opinions.
What I'd like is a recommendation for a ~£1-2k bike that I can mount panniers and mudguards on, that has a fairly upright cycling position (I'd consider a MTB as I live near the Cotswold way) but crucially since my commute involves a -600ft loss of elevation, will allow some decent speeds on the flat and downhill.
Cheers
Marc
https://betterbybike.info/start-cycling/get-a-bike...
So borrowed one on Wednesday with the intention of using it to commute the 9 miles to work. Bottled it yesterday as it was drizzling when I walked out of the house!
Now my reasons for this trial are threefold - 1. I am getting older and heavier. 2. I have a fairly fancy road bike but never use it. 3. There is no shower at work and I'm not going to spend extra time getting into and out of lycra and using wet wipes to smell passable.
Now 2 and 3 might change if the ebike unlocks my fitness/motivation but let's assume not for now.
The loan bike itself is a fairly heavy steel hybrid bike that Jakes Cycles in Bristol have converted to electric with a Pandabikes kit. It's pretty solid as you'd expect for a loan bike. The motor is in the rear hub and the battery is mounted over the rear wheel under the parcel rack. Which means ALL the weight is over the rear wheel and the bike doesn't like bends or bumps.
So I've just done the first proper ride to work and first impressions:
- It's great up hills. Obviously it takes the strain out of the big hills but all those little inclines that put the burn into my thighs and make me tired are smoothed out. I still had to pedal but the steep bits became like shallow bits and the shallow bits like the flat.
- What surprised me was the flat bits and the downhills. The bike will not happily do more than 18kph. The motor actively brakes you after that so there is no point at all in putting in any more effort. Downhills you slowly pedal to keep the assistance engaged but you cannot put any more into it as you are fighting the motor.
So my plan is this - if I stick at the commuting for the next two weeks, I'm going to get an electric bike - but it needs to address the freewheeling/speed limit issue. I've had a go on a ebike with a crank mounted bosch motor and that seemed better (but it was only a 5 minute ride in the suburbs) but I'm very interested to know other people's opinions.
What I'd like is a recommendation for a ~£1-2k bike that I can mount panniers and mudguards on, that has a fairly upright cycling position (I'd consider a MTB as I live near the Cotswold way) but crucially since my commute involves a -600ft loss of elevation, will allow some decent speeds on the flat and downhill.
Cheers
Marc
I bought a Gocycle 15 months ago (after 25 years of cycling in London on a hybrid then a Cyclecross), and use it all the time for short (<10mile) hops around the city.
While it is slightly above your budget, there are other ebikes that follow the same “template” will make it ideal for your 9 mile commute.
I would look for one with small (20”) wheels and a low step through frame. These will usually have an upright riding position, and the small wheels (and low centre of gravity) make them very manoeuvrable in city traffic.
https://www.fullycharged.com are a long established London ebike retailer - it might be worth having a poke round their website to see what your budget can get you. They don’t sell iffy cheap Chinese ebikes, so it will give you idea of the brands you should be looking at.
The top speed with your loan bike might be related to it being a rental. Ebikes by law are limited to 25km/h top speed (15.5 mph) and after that you’re reliant on pedal power.
I use my ebike far more than I anticipated - although they appear expensive at first glance, mine has now paid for itself from public transport savings. I genuinely believe they have the potential to transform travel in our cities - if authorities invest in decent cycling infrastructure…
Good luck!
ETA
While it is slightly above your budget, there are other ebikes that follow the same “template” will make it ideal for your 9 mile commute.
I would look for one with small (20”) wheels and a low step through frame. These will usually have an upright riding position, and the small wheels (and low centre of gravity) make them very manoeuvrable in city traffic.
https://www.fullycharged.com are a long established London ebike retailer - it might be worth having a poke round their website to see what your budget can get you. They don’t sell iffy cheap Chinese ebikes, so it will give you idea of the brands you should be looking at.
The top speed with your loan bike might be related to it being a rental. Ebikes by law are limited to 25km/h top speed (15.5 mph) and after that you’re reliant on pedal power.
I use my ebike far more than I anticipated - although they appear expensive at first glance, mine has now paid for itself from public transport savings. I genuinely believe they have the potential to transform travel in our cities - if authorities invest in decent cycling infrastructure…
Good luck!
ETA
marcg said:
Now my reasons for this trial are threefold - 1. I am getting older and heavier. 2. I have a fairly fancy road bike but never use it. 3. There is no shower at work and I'm not going to spend extra time getting into and out of lycra and using wet wipes to smell passable.
Now 2 and 3 might change if the ebike unlocks my fitness/motivation but let's assume not for now.
Yeah I've found that I very rarely use my CX now - the ebike is just more fun, and more suitable to grinding through congested city streets. Also don't underestimate the advantages of being able to cycle in "normal" clothes and not getting to your destination all hot and sweaty...Now 2 and 3 might change if the ebike unlocks my fitness/motivation but let's assume not for now.
Edited by funinhounslow on Friday 1st March 13:57
Thanks for that. It looks lovely but I'm not sure I've been clear about the nature of my commute? It's all countryside roads with a fair few muddy single-track roads - I don't really need manoeuvrability so much as comfort on potholes and speed on the flat/downhill bits?
My wife however works in central Bristol and either parks on the outskirts and takes a bus or drives to a friend's and walks 30 mins. So the Gocycle would suit her - except she's doesn't like cycling in city traffic. Dunno why - it barely exceeds walking pace so it's not like she's going to get hit by a speeding driver (unlike me...)
My wife however works in central Bristol and either parks on the outskirts and takes a bus or drives to a friend's and walks 30 mins. So the Gocycle would suit her - except she's doesn't like cycling in city traffic. Dunno why - it barely exceeds walking pace so it's not like she's going to get hit by a speeding driver (unlike me...)
Normally with the motors its not that there fighting you but that you are in a higher gear than normal due to the assistance so it feels like treacle when up to the speed cut out limit and the motor stops assisting.
This one gets good reviews and has a healthy discount at the moment.
https://www.raleigh.co.uk/21022-strada-comp-electr...
This one gets good reviews and has a healthy discount at the moment.
https://www.raleigh.co.uk/21022-strada-comp-electr...
Look at www.batribike.co.uk too.
Established brand and do commuter-type large-wheeled bikes.
I tried one out in the summer for a week and though it was pretty good for the money. It rode nicely and handled well - not too rear heavy.
Funnily enough I didn't find it much quicker than my "normal" bike for my commute (about 11 miles flat, then a very steep 1.5 mile climb) but I did arrive a lot less sweaty
I also tried out a £5k Fantic eMTB with a Brose motor which was much better, but then it should have been for that sort of money.
Established brand and do commuter-type large-wheeled bikes.
I tried one out in the summer for a week and though it was pretty good for the money. It rode nicely and handled well - not too rear heavy.
Funnily enough I didn't find it much quicker than my "normal" bike for my commute (about 11 miles flat, then a very steep 1.5 mile climb) but I did arrive a lot less sweaty
I also tried out a £5k Fantic eMTB with a Brose motor which was much better, but then it should have been for that sort of money.
I had one of these until recently (with upgraded hydraulic brakes).
http://www.oxygenbicycles.com/e-bikes/s-cross-cb
Great bike and their customer service is great as well, quite a few dealers dotted around.
Sold mine as I found a similar bike, but with more power and much larger battery.
http://www.oxygenbicycles.com/e-bikes/s-cross-cb
Great bike and their customer service is great as well, quite a few dealers dotted around.
Sold mine as I found a similar bike, but with more power and much larger battery.
marcg said:
3. There is no shower at work and I'm not going to spend extra time getting into and out of lycra and using wet wipes to smell passable.
I have to agree that your number 3 is the deal breaker, but I take on board your 1 and 2. Reads like you've found a good compromise.
Chap I work with comes in on an e-bike, mainly because he came off his road bike, busted some bones and is still healing. However, he says that his legs feel "pumped" (his word) after the e-bike ride into work.
Good luck and I hope it works out.
marcg said:
Good to know. So are you saying the more powerful motor is more limited?
Yes and no. I can't remember the details but I had a go on a KTM e-bike some time back and I think the guy in the shop reckoned the lesser motor was better for road use and the more expensive one better for steep offload trails.I can speak from experience here. The Bosch Performance Line CX motor as fitted to many e-mtbs definitely has the feeling of pedalling through treacle once the 25 km/h assistance cutoff is reached. The motor does not fully disengage. You are pushing the motor round as well as propelling the bike. Many owners going down the "derestricted" route are doing so simply to get around this foible.
My own Specialized Turbo Levo has no such problem. It disengages completely. You simply find yourself pedalling an overweight non-powered bike once you reach 25 km/h.
My other bike, a self converted Kinesis fitted with a Xiongda hub motor behaves in a similar fashion. If anything, it is the best Ebike I have ridden in respect of motor disengagement. It seems to fade out smoothly and comes back in smoothly too. Many bikes have an "on-off" feeling when hovering around 25 km/h.
This topic is discussed at length on various forums. By all accounts the Bosch suffers worst. Yamaha and Shimano motors fare better. Brose motors, as featured on Specialized bikes, disengage completely, as do the motors on Rocky Mountain bikes.
The rear hub motor converted bike that the OP talks about is unlikely to feature a torque sensor, whereas most, if not all, crank motored bikes ( Bosch, Shimano etc ) have such a sensor to monitor the riders power output. They then offer a proportional amount of assist. My Levo has 3 selectable levels of proportional assist, the highest of which gives 320%, ie. 3.2X the riders effort. The OP's test bike more likely offers a selectable, but non-proportional assist, as does my Kinesis. I can select 90W, 125W or 250W assist.
Both systems have their merits. The proportional system seems more "fluid" and smoother. It sits in the background but responds to rider effort instantly.
@OP, there are tons of 2nd hand bikes at or under £2K, many of which have seen minimal use. I have spent the last few weeks scouring the net looking for just such a purchase. My favoured brands have been Haibike, Scott, Cube, Giant and Specialized. I finally decided on a Spesh Turbo Levo Expert which came up at half of it's near 7K new price.
If looking at new between 1 and 2K I would take a look at Woosh Bikes.
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My own Specialized Turbo Levo has no such problem. It disengages completely. You simply find yourself pedalling an overweight non-powered bike once you reach 25 km/h.
My other bike, a self converted Kinesis fitted with a Xiongda hub motor behaves in a similar fashion. If anything, it is the best Ebike I have ridden in respect of motor disengagement. It seems to fade out smoothly and comes back in smoothly too. Many bikes have an "on-off" feeling when hovering around 25 km/h.
This topic is discussed at length on various forums. By all accounts the Bosch suffers worst. Yamaha and Shimano motors fare better. Brose motors, as featured on Specialized bikes, disengage completely, as do the motors on Rocky Mountain bikes.
The rear hub motor converted bike that the OP talks about is unlikely to feature a torque sensor, whereas most, if not all, crank motored bikes ( Bosch, Shimano etc ) have such a sensor to monitor the riders power output. They then offer a proportional amount of assist. My Levo has 3 selectable levels of proportional assist, the highest of which gives 320%, ie. 3.2X the riders effort. The OP's test bike more likely offers a selectable, but non-proportional assist, as does my Kinesis. I can select 90W, 125W or 250W assist.
Both systems have their merits. The proportional system seems more "fluid" and smoother. It sits in the background but responds to rider effort instantly.
@OP, there are tons of 2nd hand bikes at or under £2K, many of which have seen minimal use. I have spent the last few weeks scouring the net looking for just such a purchase. My favoured brands have been Haibike, Scott, Cube, Giant and Specialized. I finally decided on a Spesh Turbo Levo Expert which came up at half of it's near 7K new price.
If looking at new between 1 and 2K I would take a look at Woosh Bikes.
[pic]
[/pic]Another couple of suggestions
https://www.jejamescycles.com/focus-whistler-6-9-e...
Mainstream brand like the Raleigh, a bit more offroad bias, though only a 250Wh battery and I don't know what the Groove motor is like.
https://www.jejamescycles.com/cube-acid-hybrid-one...
Uses the lower torque Bosch and has a 400Wh battery
https://www.jejamescycles.com/focus-whistler-6-9-e...
Mainstream brand like the Raleigh, a bit more offroad bias, though only a 250Wh battery and I don't know what the Groove motor is like.
https://www.jejamescycles.com/cube-acid-hybrid-one...
Uses the lower torque Bosch and has a 400Wh battery
Edited by Toltec on Friday 1st March 22:21
The Bosch CX motor in my ebike has a lot of resistance when pedalling above 15mph, which is when the motor cuts off. I overcame this by fitting a Badass de-restrictor which keeps the motor working up to 30mph. Its a million times better.
Beware, de-restricting an ebike for public roads requires it registering as a vehicle, and insurance. Obviously I only ride mine on private land!
Get an ebike with the motor in the crank.
Beware, de-restricting an ebike for public roads requires it registering as a vehicle, and insurance. Obviously I only ride mine on private land!
Get an ebike with the motor in the crank.
So trial is over. I ended up with it for three weeks rather than two.
In that time, I had a potential 9 cycling days (other days I had to drive to meetings). I cycled for five and bottled it due to rain/wind for the other four. The cycling got easier and easier and whilst I wouldn't say I ended up enjoying it, it became equal to driving for "can/can't be bothered". I ended up in lycra tights because it was warmer and more practical for the muddy roads but didn't really sweat so didn't need the shower.
I reckon I could've cycled a few more of those days if I'd braved the weather a bit more. Maybe with better gloves. But I must admit to being slightly disappointed in myself - I had wanted to cycle everyday that didn't involve a meeting away from the office. That said, the weather has been rubbish - I've been sat in the office watching the rain beat against the windows and been glad I wasn't cycling.
So conclusion? I do want an electric bike and can justify one. But I think I can't justify the £1800. I'm thinking sub £1k is a fairer measure of my usage. My original budget was based on the bike replacing some of my fuel costs but seeing as I'm only talking ~55% that would equate to about £400 a year. I'm thinking the bike should pay for itself in about two years but can be flexible on that as, after all, it is also about being fitter. So maybe I could stretch to about £1200.
At that price, I'm thinking a secondhand bike is a better idea. But I want the security of a shop in case I buy a dud - a worn out battery or motor is an expensive thing to replace.
Does anyone know of a shop dealing in reconditioned bikes? Alternatively, any buying tips?
In that time, I had a potential 9 cycling days (other days I had to drive to meetings). I cycled for five and bottled it due to rain/wind for the other four. The cycling got easier and easier and whilst I wouldn't say I ended up enjoying it, it became equal to driving for "can/can't be bothered". I ended up in lycra tights because it was warmer and more practical for the muddy roads but didn't really sweat so didn't need the shower.
I reckon I could've cycled a few more of those days if I'd braved the weather a bit more. Maybe with better gloves. But I must admit to being slightly disappointed in myself - I had wanted to cycle everyday that didn't involve a meeting away from the office. That said, the weather has been rubbish - I've been sat in the office watching the rain beat against the windows and been glad I wasn't cycling.
So conclusion? I do want an electric bike and can justify one. But I think I can't justify the £1800. I'm thinking sub £1k is a fairer measure of my usage. My original budget was based on the bike replacing some of my fuel costs but seeing as I'm only talking ~55% that would equate to about £400 a year. I'm thinking the bike should pay for itself in about two years but can be flexible on that as, after all, it is also about being fitter. So maybe I could stretch to about £1200.
At that price, I'm thinking a secondhand bike is a better idea. But I want the security of a shop in case I buy a dud - a worn out battery or motor is an expensive thing to replace.
Does anyone know of a shop dealing in reconditioned bikes? Alternatively, any buying tips?
Edited by marcg on Wednesday 20th March 15:15
I've ordered the Raleigh Strada Comp. £1400 including 20% off at halfords (only till April). 0% finance too.
They were out of stock of large so I've ordered medium which according to Raleigh's website is fine up to 5'11. I'm six foot but always find bikes too big so I reckon I will like the size.
They were out of stock of large so I've ordered medium which according to Raleigh's website is fine up to 5'11. I'm six foot but always find bikes too big so I reckon I will like the size.
Writing this because I know from experience how many random PH pages turn up whenever I search for stuff:
The Raleigh Strada Comp medium is about right for my size - 6' tall, 32" inner leg. I found the handlebars too low so have added an extender which raised it by 2" and made it far more comfortable.
I've had it just over a month now and have done 200 miles on it! And that included two weeks off for kids holidays (working from home). So about 70 miles a week. I'm now basically using it every week day - 18 miles.
Definitely recommended.
The Raleigh Strada Comp medium is about right for my size - 6' tall, 32" inner leg. I found the handlebars too low so have added an extender which raised it by 2" and made it far more comfortable.
I've had it just over a month now and have done 200 miles on it! And that included two weeks off for kids holidays (working from home). So about 70 miles a week. I'm now basically using it every week day - 18 miles.
Definitely recommended.
Missed your ordered post but glad you like it, my mate has one and it does seem really good and fantastic value with the money off of it. Was tempted to get the wife one as I have a Merida eBig but decided to stick to letting her have mine when we go out together and me use my old mtb
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