Road, Aero, Hydro Disc, hidden cable/hoses, comfort, £5k...
Discussion
I'm looking at (perhaps) getting myself a new road bike, and I think I've managed to narrow myself into a list of options that really only contains one bike, a Cervelo S3. Is there something else I should be considering? (£5k ish max budget.)
https://www.cervelo.com/s3
I think want a carbon aero bike, as a "best bike".
(I weigh 100 kgs and am very tall, so bike weight is less important, I could probably get down to 95 kgs easily, and 90 kgs with a whole lot of effort. So I might as well optimise for aero, since the weight penalty for this is quite low.)
I want it to be fairly future-proof.
(This means yes to hydraulic discs and hidden cable and hose routing. Part of this is vanity, as I think it looks nice and will age more slowly, and the other part is related to if it's going to be aero, it might as well be aero.)
I will need it to be comfortable.
(This is the bit that might cause a bit of a ruckus, but it's related to my size, and the intended use. Very long and very low doesn't suit me, I've had it before and it makes my back ache. I've started to yoga for cyclists to improve flexibility and core strength, but it will always be an issue.)
The sort of riding I do varies quite a lot, from 20-40 mile weekend ride outs with a friend, 65 mile fast sportives with my brother, to longer sportives with less emphasis on the speed. I'm also thinking about what I'd like to do in the future, which might include another team 24 hour race, and Gruffy's Mont Blancing / Everesting event. I also have my eye on a charity event that will be about 250 miles in one go, and I fancy doing a bit more local time trialling.
So it has to do it all, with a local bike fitter involved for some of the changes.
I had a bit of look at some reviews of aero bikes, and the only things that I can find that match are the Cervelo S3. Another contender was the Giant Propel, but it seems to be very long and low. The Cannondale SystemSix seems pretty clean, and a bit higher on the Stack than the Giant. (For comparison, I'm always going to be on the biggest in the range.)
https://www.cannondale.com/en/Great%20Britain/Bike...
But I think the Cervelo S3 is probably a better shout.
What am I missing?
https://www.cervelo.com/s3
I think want a carbon aero bike, as a "best bike".
(I weigh 100 kgs and am very tall, so bike weight is less important, I could probably get down to 95 kgs easily, and 90 kgs with a whole lot of effort. So I might as well optimise for aero, since the weight penalty for this is quite low.)
I want it to be fairly future-proof.
(This means yes to hydraulic discs and hidden cable and hose routing. Part of this is vanity, as I think it looks nice and will age more slowly, and the other part is related to if it's going to be aero, it might as well be aero.)
I will need it to be comfortable.
(This is the bit that might cause a bit of a ruckus, but it's related to my size, and the intended use. Very long and very low doesn't suit me, I've had it before and it makes my back ache. I've started to yoga for cyclists to improve flexibility and core strength, but it will always be an issue.)
The sort of riding I do varies quite a lot, from 20-40 mile weekend ride outs with a friend, 65 mile fast sportives with my brother, to longer sportives with less emphasis on the speed. I'm also thinking about what I'd like to do in the future, which might include another team 24 hour race, and Gruffy's Mont Blancing / Everesting event. I also have my eye on a charity event that will be about 250 miles in one go, and I fancy doing a bit more local time trialling.
So it has to do it all, with a local bike fitter involved for some of the changes.
I had a bit of look at some reviews of aero bikes, and the only things that I can find that match are the Cervelo S3. Another contender was the Giant Propel, but it seems to be very long and low. The Cannondale SystemSix seems pretty clean, and a bit higher on the Stack than the Giant. (For comparison, I'm always going to be on the biggest in the range.)
https://www.cannondale.com/en/Great%20Britain/Bike...
But I think the Cervelo S3 is probably a better shout.
What am I missing?
What have you got now? Can't you take that as a base and look at what the manufacturer offers.
I'd consider something from Canyon. Aeroad ticks most of those boxes or maybe the new Giant Propel Disc
At £5k, I'd be buying the frame, getting it painted the colour of choice, then adding various bits.
I don't understand the relevance of the 250 mile charity ride. I managed 288 miles on a 2010 Giant Defy fitted with lowly Tiagra. It's amazing that I even finished
I'd consider something from Canyon. Aeroad ticks most of those boxes or maybe the new Giant Propel Disc
At £5k, I'd be buying the frame, getting it painted the colour of choice, then adding various bits.
I don't understand the relevance of the 250 mile charity ride. I managed 288 miles on a 2010 Giant Defy fitted with lowly Tiagra. It's amazing that I even finished
bakerstreet said:
What have you got now? Can't you take that as a base and look at what the manufacturer offers.
I'd consider something from Canyon. Aeroad ticks most of those boxes or maybe the new Giant Propel Disc
At £5k, I'd be buying the frame, getting it painted the colour of choice, then adding various bits.
I don't understand the relevance of the 250 mile charity ride. I managed 288 miles on a 2010 Giant Defy fitted with lowly Tiagra. It's amazing that I even finished
Thank you for taking the time to reply. I'd consider something from Canyon. Aeroad ticks most of those boxes or maybe the new Giant Propel Disc
At £5k, I'd be buying the frame, getting it painted the colour of choice, then adding various bits.
I don't understand the relevance of the 250 mile charity ride. I managed 288 miles on a 2010 Giant Defy fitted with lowly Tiagra. It's amazing that I even finished
I recently broke a 2011 Aluminium Trek 2.1. The H2 Geo that they do suits me well, but the Madone aero bikes are too pricey. I'll keep my eye out though, as "SL" spec might be an option if they roll one out.
Canyon appeals, especially from a value perspective, but it is quite long and low, ditto the Giant.
I don't have any useful bits to build up already, so the cost benefit of buying a whole bike probably makes sense. (Wheels being the normal short-coming on a new bike.) Happy to be educated, what frame would you go for?
The relevance of the 250 mile charity ride was to highlight aero and comfort, I suppose. If I was looking to make 250 mile days as easy as possible, I'd probably be keen to be comfortable and aero, in that order.
Specialized venge
Eg
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153267822121
But do ride an aero bike before you buy one. There are comfier options and comfort > aero for your type of riding imo
Eg
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153267822121
But do ride an aero bike before you buy one. There are comfier options and comfort > aero for your type of riding imo
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 21st November 18:49
I have a 3 year old Propel, which cost me 1600; it's rim braked and at the time was the second cheapest in the range. I tried a 2.5k Propel at the time, which was easily the best bike I have ever ridden and I had the longest battle with my inner chimp not to find the extra 900 quid.
Two months after I got it, I spent 27 hours doing an Everesting on it - so I would say it's comfortable enough. And in fact I question a lot of the diffences the marketing people feed us, does half a degree here and 10mm more there add up to anything? Maybe I'm insensitive and just don't feel small changes like that?
You need to try them to see how they feel, to see if you like them, and at your budget, a shop should be willing to spend a day with you to get it right.
I also tried a Fuji Transonic (I think) and even I could feel it felt harsh compared to the Propel.
Surely there's a Madone in your budget? Maybe a Merida Reacto?
If I had the money I would get a custom frame, and I would look at titanium too. Carbon & aero tends to mean speed first in most people's minds so you might find comfort takes a low priority, and your height may also work against that.
Two months after I got it, I spent 27 hours doing an Everesting on it - so I would say it's comfortable enough. And in fact I question a lot of the diffences the marketing people feed us, does half a degree here and 10mm more there add up to anything? Maybe I'm insensitive and just don't feel small changes like that?
You need to try them to see how they feel, to see if you like them, and at your budget, a shop should be willing to spend a day with you to get it right.
I also tried a Fuji Transonic (I think) and even I could feel it felt harsh compared to the Propel.
Surely there's a Madone in your budget? Maybe a Merida Reacto?
If I had the money I would get a custom frame, and I would look at titanium too. Carbon & aero tends to mean speed first in most people's minds so you might find comfort takes a low priority, and your height may also work against that.
Given that the type of riding you do varies a bit, your ambition ranges from leisurely sportives to time trials, and your shortlist isn't particularly "interesting" (as in, you're not leaning towards a bespoke frame, even though it sounds like standard aero road geometry doesn't suit you), have you considered splitting that budget across a couple of bikes? That budget would fund an excellent road bike for the sportives and long-distance rides, and a very, very good TT bike for time trials.
5k gets you into a 2019 Madone rsl 6 if you haggle. That’s with Ultegra, not Di2 but decent enough. The seat decoupler makes for a compliant ride, and I find it significantly less twitchy than my Parlee. However, I ride a h1 fit with no stack and wouldn’t want to do much more than 100miles on it.
9/10 times I’d ride the Madone over the Parlee and I run same kit on both. Parlee’s are suppossed to be reknown for ride comfort, but the Madone edges it.
9/10 times I’d ride the Madone over the Parlee and I run same kit on both. Parlee’s are suppossed to be reknown for ride comfort, but the Madone edges it.
If you're looking for comfort, not too stretched out, disc brakes and a bit aero but not that bothered about weight why not look at some adventure or gravel bikes, set up for the road.
I'm running a 3T Exploro as my only (road) bike at the moment. It's certainly strong, not light but not heavy either, they claim it's quite aero and feels a bit more upright than more road-focused bikes.
I'm running it with SRAM Force 1x on 700c Fulcrum 4s with 30mm tyres at the moment (soon to be 28s) and it's pretty much as fast as my old road bike (7.5kg carbon whippet with all the structural integrity of a bowl of spaghetti). Any significant difference is almost certainly down to the tyres.
Can't really recommend the 1x approach wholeheartedly, it has taken me a while to get used to. But the Exploro has mounts for a front mech, so you could easily go for a more standard configuration.
if you're tall, the 3T's geometry would probably suit you well, though be aware that there are big jumps between the sizes.
k
Are you after FULL aero, or aero features?
One point to make - you say you want aero but not long and low. Aero bikes by design will put you longer and lower - 80% of the drag is from the rider so more aero position makes more difference than an aero frame could.
There are plenty of bikes now that take aero cues but with a more relaxed geometry. Have a look at
Bianchi Infinito
Specialized Tarmac SL6
IF you want aero with some comfort benefits, Bianchi also have the Oltre XR3 (their mid range aero bike, which has countervail so more comfortable in terms of vibration and fatigue but still with a 'racy' position.
BMC Roadmachine is also worth a look.
I had a similar decision to make recently and ended up using man maths to tignore the budget and get the 2019 disc / di2 Bianchi Oltre XR4 that I my heat wanted - to be delivered at the end of Jan. (If you're going to spend that much on a bike, you might as well spend a bit more and get the one you really want)..
One point to make - you say you want aero but not long and low. Aero bikes by design will put you longer and lower - 80% of the drag is from the rider so more aero position makes more difference than an aero frame could.
There are plenty of bikes now that take aero cues but with a more relaxed geometry. Have a look at
Bianchi Infinito
Specialized Tarmac SL6
IF you want aero with some comfort benefits, Bianchi also have the Oltre XR3 (their mid range aero bike, which has countervail so more comfortable in terms of vibration and fatigue but still with a 'racy' position.
BMC Roadmachine is also worth a look.
I had a similar decision to make recently and ended up using man maths to tignore the budget and get the 2019 disc / di2 Bianchi Oltre XR4 that I my heat wanted - to be delivered at the end of Jan. (If you're going to spend that much on a bike, you might as well spend a bit more and get the one you really want)..
Thank you all for your responses. I feel a spreadsheet coming on, along with a Stack:Reach ratio to get an idea of "upright-ness".
WRT the suggestions of two bikes: My Dad is going to be buying it me as a present, and for some reason the idea of buying two bikes is not going to float past him, even if they cost the same as the one bike he buys for my brother. (If he gives me cash instead, then I'll be getting a Canyon Endurace and a second hand TT bike.)
WRT the suggestions of a custom frame and build: I like this idea, but a custom Ti frame and the best trimmings are probably not going to squeeze in under £5k, and it also fails the Dad test. The idea is firmly on my radar, maybe for a significant birthday in a few years as a treat to myself.
WRT the questions about an aero-bike and Long/Low: I am getting older, so won't be able to do a decent carbon bike justice in 10 years, so now seems like the right time to get something fast. 5 years ago the choice was aero or comfort. Now there are options that are good for both, and the weight penalty isn't what it used to be for an aero bike either. What a time to be alive.
WRT hidden cables and wires: Yep, mainly vanity.
WRT Di2: Sounds lovely, but not a killer objective. Should it be?
Spreadsheet will be constructed today...
WRT the suggestions of two bikes: My Dad is going to be buying it me as a present, and for some reason the idea of buying two bikes is not going to float past him, even if they cost the same as the one bike he buys for my brother. (If he gives me cash instead, then I'll be getting a Canyon Endurace and a second hand TT bike.)
WRT the suggestions of a custom frame and build: I like this idea, but a custom Ti frame and the best trimmings are probably not going to squeeze in under £5k, and it also fails the Dad test. The idea is firmly on my radar, maybe for a significant birthday in a few years as a treat to myself.
WRT the questions about an aero-bike and Long/Low: I am getting older, so won't be able to do a decent carbon bike justice in 10 years, so now seems like the right time to get something fast. 5 years ago the choice was aero or comfort. Now there are options that are good for both, and the weight penalty isn't what it used to be for an aero bike either. What a time to be alive.
WRT hidden cables and wires: Yep, mainly vanity.
WRT Di2: Sounds lovely, but not a killer objective. Should it be?
Spreadsheet will be constructed today...
I'm looking at a new aero road bike at the moment and the front runners are a Scott Foil or a new Propel. Canyon also in the mix, but I prefer the Foil and Propel (slight brand bias as I used to have a TCR and have an Addict now). A S5/S3 would be lovely, but you are really starting to push the bidget for one. I am activley avoiding discs (please keep the debate out of here - there is a whole thread for that)
For me at that budget, Di2 is a must - I would even drop a groupset level to get into Di2 if needed (i.e Ultegra Di2 over mechanical DA)
Cannondale system6 (If you can get past the way the Cannondale branding is stupidly obscured behind the chainrings)
For me at that budget, Di2 is a must - I would even drop a groupset level to get into Di2 if needed (i.e Ultegra Di2 over mechanical DA)
Cannondale system6 (If you can get past the way the Cannondale branding is stupidly obscured behind the chainrings)
Edited by Parsnip on Thursday 22 November 10:16
louiebaby said:
So it has to do it all, with a local bike fitter involved for some of the changes.
It's worth getting that fitter involved at this stage, especially if you're investing in a 'forever best bike'.I'd also be going back to Canyon with a brief like that. Hard to argue with the value and they make 'em for the big lads too. My Aeroad is slammed but I've kept the excess steerer and it means I can slide it back up and flip the stem over for 24 hour races. I don't have huge peak power numbers but I do find the rear triangle a little softer than expected. A rider of your size would be pushing bigger watts. Doesn't seem to trouble the pros and I've not ridden many comparable bikes for reference. If I were buying today I'd be going for the Aeroad Disc with hydraulic brakes and Di2.
Gruffy said:
louiebaby said:
So it has to do it all, with a local bike fitter involved for some of the changes.
It's worth getting that fitter involved at this stage, especially if you're investing in a 'forever best bike'.Working on my spreadsheet currently...
| Hidden Routing | Manufacturer | Model | £ - U8020 | £ - U8070 | Stack | Reach | Ratio | Notes |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Y | Cervelo | S3 | 4000 | 5700 | 630 | 405 | 1.56 | 8070 - better wheels |
| Y | Ridley | Noah Aero+ | 4500 | 6000 | 599 | 396 | 1.51 | Retailer? |
| Y | Trek | Madone SLR6 | 5400 | 601 | 399 | 1.51 | ||
| Y | Trek | Madone SLR7 | 7550 | 601 | 399 | 1.51 | ||
| Y | Specialized | Venge Pro | 6250 | 602 | 411 | 1.46 | Purple | |
| Y | Giant | Propel Ad1 | 3000 | 595 | 412 | 1.44 | ||
| Y | Giant | Propel AdPro | 4900 | 595 | 412 | 1.44 | ||
| N | Trek | Emonda SL6 | 2700 | 654 | 401 | 1.63 | Light - H2 Geo | |
| N | Trek | Emonda SL7 | 4500 | 654 | 401 | 1.63 | Light - H2 Geo | |
| N | Canyon | Endurace CF SL 8 Aero | 3100 | 3800 | 644 | 417 | 1.54 | Endurance |
| N | Cannondale | Sys6 | 3500 | 620 | 409 | 1.52 | ||
| N | Cannondale | Sys6 Hi-Mod | 6500 | 620 | 409 | 1.52 | ||
| N | Scott | Foil 10 | 5000 | 607.7 | 403.4 | 1.51 | Brown | |
| N | Specialized | Tarmac Expert | 4000 | 612 | 408 | 1.5 | ||
| N | Specialized | Tarmac Pro | 5750 | 612 | 408 | 1.5 | ||
| N | BMC | Team SLR2 One | 4300 | 608 | 409 | 1.49 | ||
| N | BMC | Team SLR2 Two | 3400 | 608 | 409 | 1.49 | ||
| N | Canyon | Aeroad CF SL 8 | 3350 | 4250 | 612 | 423 | 1.45 |
Cervelo S3 looking good on the Stack/Reach metric...
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