Are cable operated discs any good these days?
Discussion
I'm building up a winter hack / commuter disc bike, so want to keep costs down. I've got some bits I can re-use and I'm also keeping an eye on eBay for bargains.
I've heard bad things about single piston cable discs being crap but wondered if the newer two piston designs like the TRP Spyre are any better?
From a cost perspective, Merlin have the TRP Spyre for £45 each but no stock or Wiggle have the SLC version for £60. Tiagra 10 speed or 105 5800 11 speed levers are £115 (again Merlin), total cost £205 or £235 depending on the caliper. Advantage is quick setup with cables (no bleeding etc) but possibly more tweaking and maybe annual cable swaps.
Merlin have RS505 levers and calipers for £299 or approx £240/£250 if I'm happy to swap some Euro setup brakes around. I have seem some cheaper post mount brakes but I'd need post to flat mount adaptors (another £20 to £30), along with a bleed kit and mineral oil (when I inevitability spray oil all round the garage).
How easy is it to feed internal cable runs with hydraulics? I've built MTBs before with purely external runs (so no hassle) but not a road bike.
Cheers!
I've heard bad things about single piston cable discs being crap but wondered if the newer two piston designs like the TRP Spyre are any better?
From a cost perspective, Merlin have the TRP Spyre for £45 each but no stock or Wiggle have the SLC version for £60. Tiagra 10 speed or 105 5800 11 speed levers are £115 (again Merlin), total cost £205 or £235 depending on the caliper. Advantage is quick setup with cables (no bleeding etc) but possibly more tweaking and maybe annual cable swaps.
Merlin have RS505 levers and calipers for £299 or approx £240/£250 if I'm happy to swap some Euro setup brakes around. I have seem some cheaper post mount brakes but I'd need post to flat mount adaptors (another £20 to £30), along with a bleed kit and mineral oil (when I inevitability spray oil all round the garage).
How easy is it to feed internal cable runs with hydraulics? I've built MTBs before with purely external runs (so no hassle) but not a road bike.
Cheers!
+1 for TRP Spyre and RaceMatrix. Just back from almost 500 miles in NW Scotland with only two minor adjustments to the front calliper (one minute job with an allen key). Also was fine with weeny Ashima 140 mm rotors despite a laden bike (but I am a feather weight!). Elemnt recorded Vmax 53.7 mph on one descent on Arran (The String) - my fastest by far 
That said, if starting from scratch I'd go hydraulic for the better modulation and stopping power.
That said, if starting from scratch I'd go hydraulic for the better modulation and stopping power.Cool. I did 800k in 4 days in July finding all the hills between Cornwall and Scotland and they were perfect. Before making the change to the Uberbike pads I was very unin'spyred and was verging on buying a new groupset but this has made me very happy for £8.99 a pair (currently 20% off so less than that)
TRP HY/RD calipers?
Aquick scan showed them available at £82 a piece... https://www.hargrovescycles.co.uk/trp-hy-rd-hydrau...
...hydraulic brakes at the caliper (where the reservoir is) but you retain the cable pull and routing from the lever back to the caliper.
I've not used them myself, but considered them when I swapped my GT Avalanche from cable operated Tektro crud. In the end there was a good deal on Shimano hydraulic brakes, complete sealed, bled systems. But that was on a MTB so levers easier/cheaper because gear selection is separate. But looking at them, it ought to be a simple case of unbolting the cable caliper, and adjusting the cable length to suit.
If they're £82 per end, though? It starts to look like going full-hydraulic makes sense long term. But they are cheaper than a full set of hydraulic brakes, and a step up from all-cable brakes, so a half-way-house worthy of consideration?
Aquick scan showed them available at £82 a piece... https://www.hargrovescycles.co.uk/trp-hy-rd-hydrau...
...hydraulic brakes at the caliper (where the reservoir is) but you retain the cable pull and routing from the lever back to the caliper.
I've not used them myself, but considered them when I swapped my GT Avalanche from cable operated Tektro crud. In the end there was a good deal on Shimano hydraulic brakes, complete sealed, bled systems. But that was on a MTB so levers easier/cheaper because gear selection is separate. But looking at them, it ought to be a simple case of unbolting the cable caliper, and adjusting the cable length to suit.
If they're £82 per end, though? It starts to look like going full-hydraulic makes sense long term. But they are cheaper than a full set of hydraulic brakes, and a step up from all-cable brakes, so a half-way-house worthy of consideration?
Yes, I too was tempted by the TRP HY/RDs as they have good reviews. They're available for a lot less now than when I was building my bike, including some little-used ones on eBay. I might investigate. Should be possible to use on just the front with mechanical on the rear - I imagine I'd soon get used to any difference in feel.
Another similar hybrid brake with good reviews is the Juin Tech. I looked at them a year ago but photos suggested the calliper wouldn't fit in my rear triangle without the adjusting screw fouling the frame. I sent the sole (?) UK importer some photos showing the tight fit with the Spyres but he didn't reply. https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/compo...
As you suggest, my cost of going fully hydraulic on a road bike would magnified by the need for new Ultegra shifters.
Another similar hybrid brake with good reviews is the Juin Tech. I looked at them a year ago but photos suggested the calliper wouldn't fit in my rear triangle without the adjusting screw fouling the frame. I sent the sole (?) UK importer some photos showing the tight fit with the Spyres but he didn't reply. https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/compo...
As you suggest, my cost of going fully hydraulic on a road bike would magnified by the need for new Ultegra shifters.
Colour me an 'interested party' on this.
I've just thrown together a cx bike from the parts bin. It has avid bb5's on nukeproof pads (organic one end, semi metallic the other). They are utter s
te.
My roadbike stops better on rim brakes in the pissing rain. They do work but are woeful. I've adjusted the hell out of them to get that. The 'issue' seems to be that they lack grab - I'm heaving like mad on the levers, and very little happens. Maybe I'm asking too much, but I rather expect that a full force grab will result in the rear lifting, or a lockup.
My old (2010) MTB has hydros that just work, perfectly with a ton of power and modulation, despite not being touched since the bike was new.
Now the CX frame is disc, so I'm kinda stuck with it. The options I'm considering are mainly the hy/rd, or for something different, giant's conduct system. Seems like about the best 'converter' system from an engineering pov (why run any more cable than necessary?), and comes in quite a bit cheaper than the hy/rd. But fugly.
I've also tried a mates bike with spyres, and was pretty underwhelmed.. much like the BB5's they seem to lack any ability to really grab the disc. I don't really understand why?
I've just thrown together a cx bike from the parts bin. It has avid bb5's on nukeproof pads (organic one end, semi metallic the other). They are utter s
te.My roadbike stops better on rim brakes in the pissing rain. They do work but are woeful. I've adjusted the hell out of them to get that. The 'issue' seems to be that they lack grab - I'm heaving like mad on the levers, and very little happens. Maybe I'm asking too much, but I rather expect that a full force grab will result in the rear lifting, or a lockup.
My old (2010) MTB has hydros that just work, perfectly with a ton of power and modulation, despite not being touched since the bike was new.
Now the CX frame is disc, so I'm kinda stuck with it. The options I'm considering are mainly the hy/rd, or for something different, giant's conduct system. Seems like about the best 'converter' system from an engineering pov (why run any more cable than necessary?), and comes in quite a bit cheaper than the hy/rd. But fugly.
I've also tried a mates bike with spyres, and was pretty underwhelmed.. much like the BB5's they seem to lack any ability to really grab the disc. I don't really understand why?
The set my Cannondale originally came with were ok at first then slowly deteriorated over a few months to the point they couldn't really stop the bike at a modest commuter speed. I had them adjusted several times and the same thing would always happen. Thankfully now the lot has been replaced with a 105 groupset including hydraulic discs.
My summer bike is a Canyon Endurace with full Ultegra hydraulic brakes..awesome.
I’ve recently bought a s/h GT Grade, came with Spyres.
Bought a nearly new set of Hy/Rds from eBay for £85 and sold the Spyres on for £40.
Treated the front and rear brakes to new cables, inners and outlets.
No, they aren’t as good as the Ultegra full hydros, but probably 90% of the stopping power and modulation, so for the price (£50) near enough.
I spent a while looking at SRAM Rival hydros, but even s/h these were coming in at virtually what I paid for the complete bike, so decided to stick with the Hy/Rds.
Hope this helps...??
Robert
I’ve recently bought a s/h GT Grade, came with Spyres.
Bought a nearly new set of Hy/Rds from eBay for £85 and sold the Spyres on for £40.
Treated the front and rear brakes to new cables, inners and outlets.
No, they aren’t as good as the Ultegra full hydros, but probably 90% of the stopping power and modulation, so for the price (£50) near enough.
I spent a while looking at SRAM Rival hydros, but even s/h these were coming in at virtually what I paid for the complete bike, so decided to stick with the Hy/Rds.
Hope this helps...??
Robert
GOATever said:
The simple answer is no. In comparison to hydraulics, they are useless.
I don't think that's necessarily fair. I've never had perfect reliability with hydraulics - even Shimano units can leak and suffer problems. On the other hand rim brakes just don't have the power in the wet. It all depends on what you want them for anyway - relatively flat commute occasionally in the rain and easy maintenence required? TRP Spyres are the answer. Riding the South Downs competitively at 20mph average? Go with hydraulics.
millen said:
Yes, I too was tempted by the TRP HY/RDs as they have good reviews. They're available for a lot less now than when I was building my bike, including some little-used ones on eBay. I might investigate. Should be possible to use on just the front with mechanical on the rear - I imagine I'd soon get used to any difference in feel.
Another similar hybrid brake with good reviews is the Juin Tech. I looked at them a year ago but photos suggested the calliper wouldn't fit in my rear triangle without the adjusting screw fouling the frame. I sent the sole (?) UK importer some photos showing the tight fit with the Spyres but he didn't reply. https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/compo...
As you suggest, my cost of going fully hydraulic on a road bike would magnified by the need for new Ultegra shifters.
I fitted the TRPs to my CX bike I use for commuting.Another similar hybrid brake with good reviews is the Juin Tech. I looked at them a year ago but photos suggested the calliper wouldn't fit in my rear triangle without the adjusting screw fouling the frame. I sent the sole (?) UK importer some photos showing the tight fit with the Spyres but he didn't reply. https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/compo...
As you suggest, my cost of going fully hydraulic on a road bike would magnified by the need for new Ultegra shifters.
They originally came with utterly awful Avid BB5s (or might've been 7s, whichever is worst). Changing didn't improve breaking to the point of the almost ludicrous over the bars with a little finger ability of the XT and SLX brakes I've got on mountain bikes, it was certainly a significant improvement, but the really significant advantages are firstly not having to worry about any of the maintenance issues of cable discs, and secondly not having to spend money on replacement levers.
wobert said:
Hy/Rds are dead simple to fit and self adjust just like full hydros....just sayin’
I have HY/RD on my Grade. As wobert says, they are 90% as good as full hydraulics, so depending on the use the bike gets will be more than good enough for almost all situations.I have Shimano resin pads in mine which made a huge difference, and the self adjusting works very well.
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