Headset problem

[E65Ross]

My old bike.....original headset lasted a number of years, maybe 6 years. Was in dire need of replacement October last year and so LBS did this for me. Fast forward to around June, and the bike had little riding over the winter due to a broken clavicle and then the arrival of a new bike....but the headshot was shot to bits; huge amount of play when you hold the brake on and rock the bike back/forwards so I take it to another LBS (moved house) who said it appears the other shop used the wrong bearing type. Said LBS then fitted sorted it out and hey presto, no play, nice and smooth etc.

Was fitting winter tyres to it last night and noticed there's play in the headset again, and the bike has seen little action, perhaps just a few hundred miles tops in that time and no real bad weather (we haven't had much!!) as most of the miles have been on the new bike.

WTF is going on!!??

Thanks.

[Matt_N]

Have you loosened the stem bolts (on the steerer) and tightened the stem cap bolt say a 1/4 turn to try and take out the play?

Not unusual for headsets to need a tweak.

[E65Ross]

Matt_N said:

Have you loosened the stem bolts (on the steerer) and tightened the stem cap bolt say a 1/4 turn to try and take out the play?

Not unusual for headsets to need a tweak.

No I haven't, thanks for the suggestion I'll give it a go

[outnumbered]

I seem to remember that you ride quite a small frame. Smaller frames put more stress on headset bearings, so they tend to come loose more than on larger frames.

You need to slacken the stem bolts so the stem is loose, then tighten the top bolt until there's *just* no play in the headset and it still moves freely. Then tighten the stem bolts.

[E65Ross]

outnumbered said:

I seem to remember that you ride quite a small frame. Smaller frames put more stress on headset bearings, so they tend to come loose more than on larger frames.

You need to slacken the stem bolts so the stem is loose, then tighten the top bolt until there's *just* no play in the headset and it still moves freely. Then tighten the stem bolts.

I do ride a small frame, or rather I should do. Years ago I was sold this Bianchi by a reputable bike shop who said it was the right size for me. It's 2 frame sizes too big.....! Stem shortened and flipped though!!

Cheers

[snobetter]

If that doesn't work try cleaning out the headset, straightforward job. I have to do mine a couple of times each winter on my every day bike.

[E65Ross]

Any idea of the torque of the top cap? It says 6nm on the side, which I assume are for the 2 stem bolts, but it doesn't say anything on the top cap?

Cheers

[Matt_N]

E65Ross said:

Any idea of the torque of the top cap? It says 6nm on the side, which I assume are for the 2 stem bolts, but it doesn't say anything on the top cap?

Cheers

Literally finger tight, it's just there to pre load the headset bearings. Loosen stem bolts, 1/4 turn on the top cap and check for play. If it's gone re-torque stem bolts and off you go. If not try 1/8 turn more and check for play again.

[GOATever]

If you have a carbon steerer, you’ll more than likely have an expander bung, in the steerer, rather than a star nut. If you take the top cap off, you’ll see that it’s marked at about 6N.m. This is just the torque setting for the bung, and just stops it moving out of position when you pre load the bearings, with the top cap. The top cap, you just torque up ( just with a multi tool or similar) until the play in the headset / steering stops. The best way to check play in the headset, is to turn the front wheel, so it’s side on, and rock the bike backwards and forwards ( if that makes sense ) this eliminates the possibility of any residual play, being from things like brake callipers, or skewers. When the headset is tensioned, torque the stem bolts back up to 6N.m.

[E65Ross]

Thanks everyone

I loosened the stem bolts, tightened the top cap a tiny bit, checked for play, which has gone, torqued the stem bolts up to 6NM and all seems well

[Barchettaman]

Good work Ross.

Once you’ve pre-loaded the top cap bolt, bounce the front end on the tyre a couple of times, re-check for play, tighten if necessary, then do up the stem bolts.

Hope all is well health-wise with you.

[E65Ross]

Barchettaman said:

Good work Ross.

Once you’ve pre-loaded the top cap bolt, bounce the front end on the tyre a couple of times, re-check for play, tighten if necessary, then do up the stem bolts.

Hope all is well health-wise with you.

All good here thanks

I plan on riding the bike tomorrow so will see what it's like afterwards. It was nowhere near as bad as when it needed doing in the summer, that was horrendous! It was just a little bit of play this time, seems OK for now though!

[counterofbeans]

GOATever said:

If you have a carbon steerer, you’ll more than likely have an expander bung, in the steerer, rather than a star nut. If you take the top cap off, you’ll see that it’s marked at about 6N.m. This is just the torque setting for the bung, and just stops it moving out of position when you pre load the bearings, with the top cap. The top cap, you just torque up ( just with a multi tool or similar) until the play in the headset / steering stops. The best way to check play in the headset, is to turn the front wheel, so it’s side on, and rock the bike backwards and forwards ( if that makes sense ) this eliminates the possibility of any residual play, being from things like brake callipers, or skewers. When the headset is tensioned, torque the stem bolts back up to 6N.m.

Can the expander bung come loose in the steerer? I keep adjusting my headset (as per the method described) but it just gets loose again quite quickly; and there is still play in the forks even when the headset is quite tight.

[BOR]

The expander bung or star nut is not the problem.

Once the stem bolts have been tightened, you could throw the top cap and star nut away, with zero effect on the bearing looseness.

Either the Stem is not clamping the steerer tube properly (oil on tube) or the bearings are sinking into the frame.

[counterofbeans]

BOR said:

The expander bung or star nut is not the problem.

Once the stem bolts have been tightened, you could throw the top cap and star nut away, with zero effect on the bearing looseness.

Either the Stem is not clamping the steerer tube properly (oil on tube) or the bearings are sinking into the frame.

It's not the stem / steerer; I've not heard of bearings sinking into a frame before, exactly what does that mean?

For info it's a 2013 Colnago Master steel frame with steel forks.

Thanks

oh and the headset is Campag Record threadless.

[GOATever]

counterofbeans said:

Can the expander bung come loose in the steerer? I keep adjusting my headset (as per the method described) but it just gets loose again quite quickly; and there is still play in the forks even when the headset is quite tight.

It can, theoretically. It’s highly unlikely, unless the steerer is cracked, or damaged somewhere. As has been said, if you keep getting the headset coming loose, it’s most likely caused by the bearings moving into the head tube, or the stem ( or spacers ) being contaminated, or damaged.

Edited by GOATever on Wednesday 26th September 10:18

[upsidedownmark]

actually there's an option missing - the bearings are f**ked.
I've never heard of bearings sinking into a frame either - it would imply that the frame was knackered.

[GOATever]

upsidedownmark said:

actually there's an option missing - the bearings are f**ked.
I've never heard of bearings sinking into a frame either - it would imply that the frame was knackered.

True, on both counts. Look for cracks at the top or bottom of the head tube, and that the bearings aren’t rough running.

[GOATever]

BOR said:

Once the stem bolts have been tightened, you could throw the top cap and star nut away.

.

Some Commissaires might disagree.

[BOR]

The bearings could indeed be f***ed, but it seems less likely to me. You would feel the roughness in the bearings before they wear enough that they get so slack.

There are various types of head bearing set up, and I am notreally that well versed on them all. Some need metal cups pressing into the head tube, and the bearings run on those cups. Some designs have the bearing sitting directly against a machined surface in the head tube.

I guess if the frame uses cups that have been fitted incorrectly, it could be the source of the problem.

A threadless headset should be pretty foolproof though, so I'm running out of ideas.

Edited by BOR on Wednesday 26th September 10:45