General time trial tips or opinions sought.
Discussion
First a bit of background....
So I ride a road bike, I'm middle-aged (44), skinny (just under 10 stone/64kg) and moderately fit... 6000km of training this year, lots of hill training and i reckon about 240-255watts ftp.
I rode my first 40km time trial a couple of weeks back, as part of a triathlon relay team. It wasn't a full 40km though, officially 37.7km.
I averaged on my normal road bike just over 40km/h or 25mph. I was bloody thrilled as I was placed 6th fastest rider from 45 and the team got on the podium in 3rd.
It hurt, a lot. I feel time trials not really one of my strengths, I was surprised with the result.
Regarding the kit I used. A picture explains a lot...
This is my normal road bike, an aluminium Rose Xeon (with a triple chainring!) and fulcrum racing 3 wheels. I bought a barely used helmet 2 days beforehand and a medium Castelli skinsuit the week before. I borrowed the tri extensions from a friend.
I got beaten by a friend though...my time was 56mins and he was just over a minute faster. He is a big, powerful rider...also riding a normal road bike with extensions.
My plan is to be faster than him next year. My training will focus more on increasing my FTP, but also when I look at the picture of me on the bike I think there is a lot I can still do with aero...but how much? No bloody idea!
To this end I just ordered a time trial bike...from Merlin cycles...I don't like splashing out big on cycling gear, it is just a hobby and I know I am slow, so I wanted a good deal. I bought this for 1700quid...
comparing the geometry with my current road bike it is both longer and lower. I aim to train on it with my smart trainer over winter, to get used to the riding position. Then bring it out on sunny winter Sunday afternoons to get acquainted with the handling. I am lucky than I am halfway flexible and have a very standard build, so my limbs and torso are very average. I know it is daft buying a bike without a test ride, but I couldn't get as good a deal locally and a couple of my friends have Ridley road bikes are they are really pleased with them.
Does anyone have any tips? What do you think of my current aero position? My torso angle looks too upright to me.
Is my target of a minute faster realistic?
Cheers y'all!
So I ride a road bike, I'm middle-aged (44), skinny (just under 10 stone/64kg) and moderately fit... 6000km of training this year, lots of hill training and i reckon about 240-255watts ftp.
I rode my first 40km time trial a couple of weeks back, as part of a triathlon relay team. It wasn't a full 40km though, officially 37.7km.
I averaged on my normal road bike just over 40km/h or 25mph. I was bloody thrilled as I was placed 6th fastest rider from 45 and the team got on the podium in 3rd.
It hurt, a lot. I feel time trials not really one of my strengths, I was surprised with the result.
Regarding the kit I used. A picture explains a lot...
This is my normal road bike, an aluminium Rose Xeon (with a triple chainring!) and fulcrum racing 3 wheels. I bought a barely used helmet 2 days beforehand and a medium Castelli skinsuit the week before. I borrowed the tri extensions from a friend.
I got beaten by a friend though...my time was 56mins and he was just over a minute faster. He is a big, powerful rider...also riding a normal road bike with extensions.
My plan is to be faster than him next year. My training will focus more on increasing my FTP, but also when I look at the picture of me on the bike I think there is a lot I can still do with aero...but how much? No bloody idea!
To this end I just ordered a time trial bike...from Merlin cycles...I don't like splashing out big on cycling gear, it is just a hobby and I know I am slow, so I wanted a good deal. I bought this for 1700quid...
comparing the geometry with my current road bike it is both longer and lower. I aim to train on it with my smart trainer over winter, to get used to the riding position. Then bring it out on sunny winter Sunday afternoons to get acquainted with the handling. I am lucky than I am halfway flexible and have a very standard build, so my limbs and torso are very average. I know it is daft buying a bike without a test ride, but I couldn't get as good a deal locally and a couple of my friends have Ridley road bikes are they are really pleased with them.
Does anyone have any tips? What do you think of my current aero position? My torso angle looks too upright to me.
Is my target of a minute faster realistic?
Cheers y'all!
With time trialling, a lot of your speed will come through experience of metering out your own effort, feeling how you are doing and learning how YOUR body feels when racing against the clock.
You are obvs pretty fit. Just do a few TTs and you WILL improve just by working with your own experience. No need to spend money on kit until you plateau out at a performance level.
If you do TTs regularly, you will at some stage experience a 'quick day' where for no fathomable reason you just go bloody quick. It's a fantastic feeling.
You are obvs pretty fit. Just do a few TTs and you WILL improve just by working with your own experience. No need to spend money on kit until you plateau out at a performance level.
If you do TTs regularly, you will at some stage experience a 'quick day' where for no fathomable reason you just go bloody quick. It's a fantastic feeling.
You've probably just bought yourself a minute or so with the bike and wheels. A deeper front will gain you time too.
From that pic of you on the current bike though I'm not sure longer is what you're after, ideally shoulder / elbow / forearm should be about 90degrees - you already looked stretched. Lower is not always faster. You could find being a bit more upright but narrowing yourself, extensions in close, shoulder shrug is faster. Also depends on what position you can comfortably hold power at. Your back position looks pretty good and your helmet matches the profile well too.
I'm only just starting out on TT'ing too and from your time above you're quicker than me anyway so take what I'm saying with a pinch of salt!
I went from a road bike with clip ons to a Giant Trinity and averaged 1.7mph faster over a 10 with a slipped saddle nose, same wheels on both FFWD F6R and conditions were very similar.
From that pic of you on the current bike though I'm not sure longer is what you're after, ideally shoulder / elbow / forearm should be about 90degrees - you already looked stretched. Lower is not always faster. You could find being a bit more upright but narrowing yourself, extensions in close, shoulder shrug is faster. Also depends on what position you can comfortably hold power at. Your back position looks pretty good and your helmet matches the profile well too.
I'm only just starting out on TT'ing too and from your time above you're quicker than me anyway so take what I'm saying with a pinch of salt!
I went from a road bike with clip ons to a Giant Trinity and averaged 1.7mph faster over a 10 with a slipped saddle nose, same wheels on both FFWD F6R and conditions were very similar.
Kawasicki said:
Cheers guys. I agree that I have lots to learn..hopefully will get a load of practice runs in over winter. I will post a couple of updates on here too. I read some good blogs this evening, the fight against air resistance is a tough one.
Yeh would be interesting to keep track, I'm on a similar path. Wanted something to take part in properly next season so thought I'd give TT'ing a go. I'd suggest speaking with a decent bike fitter who can set up TT positions correctly.
Having a properly set up position will allow you to be more comfortable which in turn will make you faster.
Apart from that getting used to the position and increasing your power as suggested is the best thing.
It may be worth getting a power meter to help pace the TTs too.
Having a properly set up position will allow you to be more comfortable which in turn will make you faster.
Apart from that getting used to the position and increasing your power as suggested is the best thing.
It may be worth getting a power meter to help pace the TTs too.
If you've dropped £1700 on a TT, round it up to £2k and have a session at the Boardman Performance Centre
https://www.boardmanbikes.com/gb_en/boardman-perfo...
https://www.boardmanbikes.com/gb_en/boardman-perfo...
Master Bean said:
Get somebody to pin your number on properly.
https://www.nopinz.com/product-category/nopinz-speedpocket/On position, go for a bike fit session with the TT bike. A decent fitter will help set you up for the right balance of power delivery and comfort for the events you have in mind. You might need two fits: one now and one when you have trained for a for a while on the bike
If you are smart training in the winter, most of the training platforms (incl. Zwift and TrainerRoad) have specific TT plans that you can include in your plan at the right time. Mostly it comes down to upping the power and training to ride at higher proportions of your max power for longer durations
As others have said, being able to pace yourself over the course is important too. David Millar put out a GCN video about this very thing recently
https://twitter.com/ChptIII/status/103921508059491...
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 11th September 10:47
I need to get back into it. This winter, the roadie will go on the TT and I'll do a few sessions of pain a week in the garage.
Anyway...
Anyway...
- Don't tell your mate you've bought a new bike.
- Get a fit on the new bike, as soon as you get it.
- Train in the new position over the winter on the turbo.
- Get another fit on the new bike just as the weather starts to warm up, since you'll have developed flexibility and so on.
- Get used to how the new bike moves on the road.
- Go smash your mate.
Main tips for getting better at time trialling;
1. Buy a power meter
2. Train with power
3. Hire a coach and let them do the thinking for you
4. Train in position
5. Enter lots of time trials to learn how to ride them. You’ll be surprised what you can do when you have a number pinned to you back compared to the turbo.
1. Buy a power meter
2. Train with power
3. Hire a coach and let them do the thinking for you
4. Train in position
5. Enter lots of time trials to learn how to ride them. You’ll be surprised what you can do when you have a number pinned to you back compared to the turbo.
Edited by CatMatt7 on Tuesday 11th September 22:34
upsidedownmark said:
Not sure I can add much, my main thought is 'b**tard' 
I have a TT with all the toys, FTP is currently 270 (albeit I'm a bit fatter at 85kg, and have shoulders better suited to rugby), but I still can't break the hour.. reckon I need more like 300 to do so
Most of the online power calculators have you needing circa 310w on aerobars to do 41kmh on a flat windless course. I think you are underestimating your FTP. I have a TT with all the toys, FTP is currently 270 (albeit I'm a bit fatter at 85kg, and have shoulders better suited to rugby), but I still can't break the hour.. reckon I need more like 300 to do so Me, or Kawasicki?
Chung/aerolab has my cda at 0.253, 270 FTP is based off a 20min all out last sat and a quarq. I've done 1:02.30ish and 270 for an hour on h25/4 (which is a good bit quicker than best bike split predicts). I wish I understood how to judge power vs aero better - I can def do a bit more power on the roadbike, but very not-aero.
I'm inclined to think Kawasicki has more punch than he thinks.. but strava shows some pretty fast times off quite low wattages on some of the TT courses, so it's not impossible.
Chung/aerolab has my cda at 0.253, 270 FTP is based off a 20min all out last sat and a quarq. I've done 1:02.30ish and 270 for an hour on h25/4 (which is a good bit quicker than best bike split predicts). I wish I understood how to judge power vs aero better - I can def do a bit more power on the roadbike, but very not-aero.
I'm inclined to think Kawasicki has more punch than he thinks.. but strava shows some pretty fast times off quite low wattages on some of the TT courses, so it's not impossible.
If you are talking about me...
Last FTP Test I got 240w, at the start of spring. Since then I have trained a fair amount, so I have improved a bit, but I would be shocked if I was 60w better! I am skinny, with cyclists arms and shoulders, since birth! Maybe, as a result, I am more aero than the calculator expects.
I will jump on the smart trainer at the weekend and retest my ftp. I’m curious now!
Last FTP Test I got 240w, at the start of spring. Since then I have trained a fair amount, so I have improved a bit, but I would be shocked if I was 60w better! I am skinny, with cyclists arms and shoulders, since birth! Maybe, as a result, I am more aero than the calculator expects.
I will jump on the smart trainer at the weekend and retest my ftp. I’m curious now!
I suspect a combination of many things. I reckon your position in the pic looks pretty good. You're probably somewhat naturally more aero than I am at least, your FTP is higher than you think, and I also (I at least) find I can punch out a fair bit more on the road outside than I can on a trainer.
Depends a lot on your trainer too - accuracy on a lot of them is pretty woeful (which doesn't necessarily matter if they're repeatable).. but for example my vortex was about 30-40w above my power meter (now have a neo which is bang on).
Either way I'm a little envious
Depends a lot on your trainer too - accuracy on a lot of them is pretty woeful (which doesn't necessarily matter if they're repeatable).. but for example my vortex was about 30-40w above my power meter (now have a neo which is bang on).
Either way I'm a little envious
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