Vintage Steel Frames
Discussion
I want to start cycling again but the thing that’s putting me off is the fact that my mountain bike feels cramped for me and stiff since I put rigid forks and 1.6” slicks on it to make it more road orientated. I get numb hands and sore wrists pretty quick and yearn for alternative hand positions.
I’m thinking about buying a road bike. I particularly like the idea of a steel frame as (at my build) spending loads of cash to get something particularly lightweight is just a bit silly. I probably don’t want to spend ‘decent carbon bike’ money, and I’m moving away from aluminium as I like the skinny tubes look of steel and they’re supposedly less vibey.
The other cool thing about steel is that I quite like the idea of riding an older bike, say a 90s machine… and looking at the prices of Peugeots etc from that era I’m not alone.
My usage will be casual rides typically 30 miles, sometimes a bit further. Nothing serious or competitive.
What are my considerations when choosing a road bike frame? Broadly speaking, what are the differences between a 25 year old road bike and it’s modern equivalent? Has geometry changed over time and in what way? Are parts a problem for older bikes?
I’m thinking about buying a road bike. I particularly like the idea of a steel frame as (at my build) spending loads of cash to get something particularly lightweight is just a bit silly. I probably don’t want to spend ‘decent carbon bike’ money, and I’m moving away from aluminium as I like the skinny tubes look of steel and they’re supposedly less vibey.
The other cool thing about steel is that I quite like the idea of riding an older bike, say a 90s machine… and looking at the prices of Peugeots etc from that era I’m not alone.
My usage will be casual rides typically 30 miles, sometimes a bit further. Nothing serious or competitive.
What are my considerations when choosing a road bike frame? Broadly speaking, what are the differences between a 25 year old road bike and it’s modern equivalent? Has geometry changed over time and in what way? Are parts a problem for older bikes?
Quite a broad question, it will depend on how much you want to spend
If you are after better ride comfort , then , personally I would avoid an older steel bike. Firstly the majority (not all) of older steel frames will only accommodate 23c width tyres, whereas many modern bikes can accommodate much wider tyres up to 28 or even 32c tyres
Secondly steel is often said to provide a suppler ride than other materials, however there are many many different variations & grades of steel and some are just glorified scaffolding poles that give poor ride quality, where as other steel frames offer a lovely smooth ride
A further issue for older bikes, is parts can be harder to get hold of and you have to rely on ebay and SH sites, its not the end of the world. but some parts can be a PITA to get at short notice. If you enjoy maintaining a bike and ebay auctions then this is fine, i'd rather be out riding
I think modern bikes have come on leaps and bounds in regards to comfort, you see some of the "sportive" disc braked bikes you can get, some of the tubes look as big as my calves. Modern bikes that are designed for comfort are much more comfortable than a 1990s bike
Dont want to put you off and I love the charm & character of older bikes , especially steel bikes , but technology has moved on so so much .
I'd work out how much you want to spend and take it from there
If you are after better ride comfort , then , personally I would avoid an older steel bike. Firstly the majority (not all) of older steel frames will only accommodate 23c width tyres, whereas many modern bikes can accommodate much wider tyres up to 28 or even 32c tyres
Secondly steel is often said to provide a suppler ride than other materials, however there are many many different variations & grades of steel and some are just glorified scaffolding poles that give poor ride quality, where as other steel frames offer a lovely smooth ride
A further issue for older bikes, is parts can be harder to get hold of and you have to rely on ebay and SH sites, its not the end of the world. but some parts can be a PITA to get at short notice. If you enjoy maintaining a bike and ebay auctions then this is fine, i'd rather be out riding
I think modern bikes have come on leaps and bounds in regards to comfort, you see some of the "sportive" disc braked bikes you can get, some of the tubes look as big as my calves. Modern bikes that are designed for comfort are much more comfortable than a 1990s bike
Dont want to put you off and I love the charm & character of older bikes , especially steel bikes , but technology has moved on so so much .
I'd work out how much you want to spend and take it from there
Edited by TwistingMyMelon on Wednesday 14th June 15:24
I'm not looking for another restoration project or hobby and I don't want any more excuses keeping me from going out and riding so perhaps the 'vintage' bit should fall by the wayside. I do like the look of a lot of the new ones too. I am baulking at the prices a little though- so far my research of current bikes is limited to 'Best steel road bikes 2017' type articles and based on those, prices start at £2k and go skyward from there!
Seems I should be looking for a used bike.
I would consider stretching to £1k but would prefer to spend less. I'm not a proper bicyclist.
Seems I should be looking for a used bike.
I would consider stretching to £1k but would prefer to spend less. I'm not a proper bicyclist.
Bike prices have moved up this year due to the many factors effecting the trading of sterling.
Plenty of newer geometry steel bikes around on ebay, have a look at Genesis for starters. There's always sellers with last years spec, which helps to keep the prices down. Depends on the sizing you require?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genesis-Equilibrium-Disc...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/genesis-equilibrium-/201...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genesis-Croix-de-Fer-10-...
Plenty of newer geometry steel bikes around on ebay, have a look at Genesis for starters. There's always sellers with last years spec, which helps to keep the prices down. Depends on the sizing you require?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genesis-Equilibrium-Disc...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/genesis-equilibrium-/201...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genesis-Croix-de-Fer-10-...
https://www.steel-vintage.com/scott-cr1-urban-sing...
I could spend a lot of money on that site!
I have an old 1970's holdsworth that's a joy to ride a lot different to a modern carbon bike.
I could spend a lot of money on that site!
I have an old 1970's holdsworth that's a joy to ride a lot different to a modern carbon bike.
bigdom said:
Bike prices have moved up this year due to the many factors effecting the trading of sterling.
Plenty of newer geometry steel bikes around on ebay, have a look at Genesis for starters. There's always sellers with last years spec, which helps to keep the prices down. Depends on the sizing you require?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genesis-Equilibrium-Disc...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/genesis-equilibrium-/201...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genesis-Croix-de-Fer-10-...
Cheers, will check these out. Buying last year's model is the way I have done it in the past. It does limit my options sometimes as I am a very normal six foot and bikes in my size generally sell in good numbers.Plenty of newer geometry steel bikes around on ebay, have a look at Genesis for starters. There's always sellers with last years spec, which helps to keep the prices down. Depends on the sizing you require?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genesis-Equilibrium-Disc...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/genesis-equilibrium-/201...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genesis-Croix-de-Fer-10-...
I like a fairly long reach so would prefer to go long with the possibility of a shorter stem if required, I have no idea how road bike sizing works so I'll have to read up on it.
TwistingMyMelon said:
Quite a broad question, it will depend on how much you want to spend
If you are after better ride comfort , then , personally I would avoid an older steel bike. Firstly the majority (not all) of older steel frames will only accommodate 23c width tyres, whereas many modern bikes can accommodate much wider tyres up to 28 or even 32c tyres
Secondly steel is often said to provide a suppler ride than other materials, however there are many many different variations & grades of steel and some are just glorified scaffolding poles that give poor ride quality, where as other steel frames offer a lovely smooth ride
A further issue for older bikes, is parts can be harder to get hold of and you have to rely on ebay and SH sites, its not the end of the world. but some parts can be a PITA to get at short notice. If you enjoy maintaining a bike and ebay auctions then this is fine, i'd rather be out riding
I think modern bikes have come on leaps and bounds in regards to comfort, you see some of the "sportive" disc braked bikes you can get, some of the tubes look as big as my calves. Modern bikes that are designed for comfort are much more comfortable than a 1990s bike
Dont want to put you off and I love the charm & character of older bikes , especially steel bikes , but technology has moved on so so much .
I'd work out how much you want to spend and take it from there
Loads of vintage steel bikes will take a 700c/28 tyre. Check the clearance under the rear brake caliper and behind the seat tube/brake bridge.If you are after better ride comfort , then , personally I would avoid an older steel bike. Firstly the majority (not all) of older steel frames will only accommodate 23c width tyres, whereas many modern bikes can accommodate much wider tyres up to 28 or even 32c tyres
Secondly steel is often said to provide a suppler ride than other materials, however there are many many different variations & grades of steel and some are just glorified scaffolding poles that give poor ride quality, where as other steel frames offer a lovely smooth ride
A further issue for older bikes, is parts can be harder to get hold of and you have to rely on ebay and SH sites, its not the end of the world. but some parts can be a PITA to get at short notice. If you enjoy maintaining a bike and ebay auctions then this is fine, i'd rather be out riding
I think modern bikes have come on leaps and bounds in regards to comfort, you see some of the "sportive" disc braked bikes you can get, some of the tubes look as big as my calves. Modern bikes that are designed for comfort are much more comfortable than a 1990s bike
Dont want to put you off and I love the charm & character of older bikes , especially steel bikes , but technology has moved on so so much .
I'd work out how much you want to spend and take it from there
Edited by TwistingMyMelon on Wednesday 14th June 15:24
Cheap steel is no indicator of ride quality. Particularly in a bigger frame, cheaper steel will typically lend itself to a stiffer frame as thicker gauge tubing will have been used, but flex and ride are completely subjective and dependant upon loads of factors.
Older style components (thinking of square-taper bottom brackets) are typically much more durable than modern press-fit rubbish in a British climate, although an older bike will likely be overgeared with e.g. a 52/42 crankset. If you live in a hilly area this may be a consideration.
I'm just doing up a nice Reynolds 501 Raleigh for a mate. The changes I've recommended are:
-swap 700c/20 tyres to 700c/25
-swapping in a cheap square taper 50/34 crankset
-70mm stem and modern Ergo road handlebar
-Tektro aero brake levers (cable housing under the bar tape)
-Terry race saddle
-Jagwire brake cables/housing
-new brake shoes as the old ones are rock hard
Total cost around €120. it does add up.
At 6ft and looking for an older steel frame with a traditional horizontal top tube you'd probably fit a 56cm centre to centre.
From there you can experiment with stem length depending on how you like to ride.
Decent older steel frames are harder to find amongst the rubbish out there, as a starter you'd be looking for something made from Reynolds 531 or higher or maybe Columbus tubing. They were and are the makers of the better known steel tubing.
Personally I love steel, my favourite bike is a mid 90s Colnago Master made with Columbus Hilco tubing, possibly one of the finest steel frames out there and it's a joy to ride. It has race orientated geometry and does have that spring which provides the comfort when required, they still make them now some 30 years later...
From there you can experiment with stem length depending on how you like to ride.
Decent older steel frames are harder to find amongst the rubbish out there, as a starter you'd be looking for something made from Reynolds 531 or higher or maybe Columbus tubing. They were and are the makers of the better known steel tubing.
Personally I love steel, my favourite bike is a mid 90s Colnago Master made with Columbus Hilco tubing, possibly one of the finest steel frames out there and it's a joy to ride. It has race orientated geometry and does have that spring which provides the comfort when required, they still make them now some 30 years later...
I'm starting to plan a bike adventure and have been eyeing up Planet-X Holdsworth steel frames with disk brake mounts
http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FRHOLSTEL/holdsworth-...
http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FRHOLSTEL/holdsworth-...
The Kaffenback is a nice ride, but it's bloody heavy. I've got a nice '80's Raleigh that I've done a lot of miles on, and a rare Cornelo that doesn't come out much, both nice to ride, and there's a good supply of bits on eBay, although the Cornelo has an increasingly obscure Shimano AX groupset on, some of the bits for that are getting rare...
While I said I don't want a 'project', I wouldn't rule out building a bike. That Planet X Holdsworth frame is lovely. However as I'm starting from scratch with no road bike parts I'm guessing buying a complete bike will be more cost effective?
The drawback there is that I'd rather focus my cash on a nice frame and upgrade components as I go but complete bikes built on nice pricey frames tend to come with similarly pricey components...
The drawback there is that I'd rather focus my cash on a nice frame and upgrade components as I go but complete bikes built on nice pricey frames tend to come with similarly pricey components...
You can't go wrong with a Genesis Equilibrium (non-disc). The 10 model is usually around and about the £1k mark. They tend to do models with better finishing kit referred to as 10, then the 20, then 30.
I have the 2015 30 model (with the Campag groupset) and its brilliant. Rides lovely, super smooth, not too heavy, looks ace. It came with 28mm tyres, has room for more, has rack and mudguard mounts, yet looks sleek. For a single do it all bike, as long as you're not after a super light racer, for a general road/audax/light touring bike, I don't think you'll do much better.
I have the 2015 30 model (with the Campag groupset) and its brilliant. Rides lovely, super smooth, not too heavy, looks ace. It came with 28mm tyres, has room for more, has rack and mudguard mounts, yet looks sleek. For a single do it all bike, as long as you're not after a super light racer, for a general road/audax/light touring bike, I don't think you'll do much better.
Keep your eye on Retrobike. Some nice bikes come up for sale -
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=4...
And get a nice Colnago Nuovo Mexico, circa 1983. Stunning bike.
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=4...
And get a nice Colnago Nuovo Mexico, circa 1983. Stunning bike.
HustleRussell said:
I want to start cycling again but the thing that’s putting me off is the fact that my mountain bike feels cramped for me and stiff since I put rigid forks and 1.6” slicks on it to make it more road orientated. I get numb hands and sore wrists pretty quick and yearn for alternative hand positions.
I’m thinking about buying a road bike. I particularly like the idea of a steel frame as (at my build) spending loads of cash to get something particularly lightweight is just a bit silly. I probably don’t want to spend ‘decent carbon bike’ money, and I’m moving away from aluminium as I like the skinny tubes look of steel and they’re supposedly less vibey.
The other cool thing about steel is that I quite like the idea of riding an older bike, say a 90s machine… and looking at the prices of Peugeots etc from that era I’m not alone.
My usage will be casual rides typically 30 miles, sometimes a bit further. Nothing serious or competitive.
What are my considerations when choosing a road bike frame? Broadly speaking, what are the differences between a 25 year old road bike and it’s modern equivalent? Has geometry changed over time and in what way? Are parts a problem for older bikes?
In terms of balancing comfort/ride quality with stiffness needed for power transmission, steel rides better than any other material, but not heavy cheap tubes. Peugots are cheapish frames largely converted to hipster/fixie specials -- would avoid. I’m thinking about buying a road bike. I particularly like the idea of a steel frame as (at my build) spending loads of cash to get something particularly lightweight is just a bit silly. I probably don’t want to spend ‘decent carbon bike’ money, and I’m moving away from aluminium as I like the skinny tubes look of steel and they’re supposedly less vibey.
The other cool thing about steel is that I quite like the idea of riding an older bike, say a 90s machine… and looking at the prices of Peugeots etc from that era I’m not alone.
My usage will be casual rides typically 30 miles, sometimes a bit further. Nothing serious or competitive.
What are my considerations when choosing a road bike frame? Broadly speaking, what are the differences between a 25 year old road bike and it’s modern equivalent? Has geometry changed over time and in what way? Are parts a problem for older bikes?
Buy a quality frame from a known supplier of quality race/road bikes. Italian brands were top from the 70s through the 90s, and Merckx, Serotta, and others were also quite good. Columbus, Deda, or Reynolds tubes are best.
Geometry on proper stage frames has hardly changed at all, but components have improved a lot. The latter would be an argument for a modern bike.
Fit is also crucial on older bikes, there is less leeway as they were designed to fit a certain way. Look for the CONI manual for advice here. Avoid using a formula to set your seat height, or you will likely be riding a barn gate for a frame and using a foam roller to alleviate your ITB problems.
One of my mates built up a gorgeous bike based around a 1970's Gios Torino frame. It's a thing of beauty (his wife actually let him hang it on the wall in their dining room!) but genuine Gios Torino frames don't come cheap.
I once did a sportive on a borrowed Bob Jackson steel framed bike, think that was from the early 70's, Reynolds tubing, it rode wonderfully. Non-indexed shifters on the down tube made life interesting though
Definitely a good possibility of ending up with a bike that's lovely to ride with classic looks but I bet there's loads of dross out there too.
I once did a sportive on a borrowed Bob Jackson steel framed bike, think that was from the early 70's, Reynolds tubing, it rode wonderfully. Non-indexed shifters on the down tube made life interesting though
Definitely a good possibility of ending up with a bike that's lovely to ride with classic looks but I bet there's loads of dross out there too.
Edited by lufbramatt on Monday 19th June 09:44
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