Bicycle Business Idea - thoughts?
Discussion
Good Evening,
Long time lurker and occasional poster on PH, but I am asking the people of pistonheads for their opinions on an idea I have had for a couple of years now, and I know that the people of PH will not hold back on their opinions. The question of should I explore this idea further came around again the other week, when I was giving a colleague of mine a lift back from work. We got chatting about bikes and he said he had an old Specialized that he was struggling to sell (no time, time wasters, routes to sell it through etc etc).
The concept;
- An online bicycle store that specialises in used premium road and mountain bikes (circa £500+).
- Stock is aquired through purchasing bikes from customers. (I have previously trialled a 'webuyanycar' style website with some success). This included a webpage where you would input your bike details (make, model, year) and upload a number of photos. Within a couple of hours, you would have a guaranteed price. Cosmetic damage would be acceptable but structural would have to addressed. This removes any hassle of the customer selling their bike through eBay, gumtree etc etc.
- Payment would be sent securely though Paypal within 24 hours to the customer.
- The customer would then have 7 days to send the bike, unless previously advised, or a case would be opened. All purchases would be backed up with paperwork received from the customer, before payment is made.
- Bike is received, inspected and serviced by a qualified mechanic. Any parts changed as necessary.
- Bike is then advertised and sold online, with a 'used bike guarantee' (similar to what you would get from a used car dealer).
I have had some small successes in the past with buying and selling used bikes.
I would welcome and thoughts / comments.
Long time lurker and occasional poster on PH, but I am asking the people of pistonheads for their opinions on an idea I have had for a couple of years now, and I know that the people of PH will not hold back on their opinions. The question of should I explore this idea further came around again the other week, when I was giving a colleague of mine a lift back from work. We got chatting about bikes and he said he had an old Specialized that he was struggling to sell (no time, time wasters, routes to sell it through etc etc).
The concept;
- An online bicycle store that specialises in used premium road and mountain bikes (circa £500+).
- Stock is aquired through purchasing bikes from customers. (I have previously trialled a 'webuyanycar' style website with some success). This included a webpage where you would input your bike details (make, model, year) and upload a number of photos. Within a couple of hours, you would have a guaranteed price. Cosmetic damage would be acceptable but structural would have to addressed. This removes any hassle of the customer selling their bike through eBay, gumtree etc etc.
- Payment would be sent securely though Paypal within 24 hours to the customer.
- The customer would then have 7 days to send the bike, unless previously advised, or a case would be opened. All purchases would be backed up with paperwork received from the customer, before payment is made.
- Bike is received, inspected and serviced by a qualified mechanic. Any parts changed as necessary.
- Bike is then advertised and sold online, with a 'used bike guarantee' (similar to what you would get from a used car dealer).
I have had some small successes in the past with buying and selling used bikes.
I would welcome and thoughts / comments.
allezbikes said:
Good Evening,
Long time lurker and occasional poster on PH, but I am asking the people of pistonheads for their opinions on an idea I have had for a couple of years now, and I know that the people of PH will not hold back on their opinions. The question of should I explore this idea further came around again the other week, when I was giving a colleague of mine a lift back from work. We got chatting about bikes and he said he had an old Specialized that he was struggling to sell (no time, time wasters, routes to sell it through etc etc).
The concept;
- An online bicycle store that specialises in used premium road and mountain bikes (circa £500+).
- Stock is aquired through purchasing bikes from customers. (I have previously trialled a 'webuyanycar' style website with some success). This included a webpage where you would input your bike details (make, model, year) and upload a number of photos. Within a couple of hours, you would have a guaranteed price. Cosmetic damage would be acceptable but structural would have to addressed. This removes any hassle of the customer selling their bike through eBay, gumtree etc etc.
- Payment would be sent securely though Paypal within 24 hours to the customer.
- The customer would then have 7 days to send the bike, unless previously advised, or a case would be opened. All purchases would be backed up with paperwork received from the customer, before payment is made.
- Bike is received, inspected and serviced by a qualified mechanic. Any parts changed as necessary.
- Bike is then advertised and sold online, with a 'used bike guarantee' (similar to what you would get from a used car dealer).
I have had some small successes in the past with buying and selling used bikes.
I would welcome and thoughts / comments.
Short version: it wont workLong time lurker and occasional poster on PH, but I am asking the people of pistonheads for their opinions on an idea I have had for a couple of years now, and I know that the people of PH will not hold back on their opinions. The question of should I explore this idea further came around again the other week, when I was giving a colleague of mine a lift back from work. We got chatting about bikes and he said he had an old Specialized that he was struggling to sell (no time, time wasters, routes to sell it through etc etc).
The concept;
- An online bicycle store that specialises in used premium road and mountain bikes (circa £500+).
- Stock is aquired through purchasing bikes from customers. (I have previously trialled a 'webuyanycar' style website with some success). This included a webpage where you would input your bike details (make, model, year) and upload a number of photos. Within a couple of hours, you would have a guaranteed price. Cosmetic damage would be acceptable but structural would have to addressed. This removes any hassle of the customer selling their bike through eBay, gumtree etc etc.
- Payment would be sent securely though Paypal within 24 hours to the customer.
- The customer would then have 7 days to send the bike, unless previously advised, or a case would be opened. All purchases would be backed up with paperwork received from the customer, before payment is made.
- Bike is received, inspected and serviced by a qualified mechanic. Any parts changed as necessary.
- Bike is then advertised and sold online, with a 'used bike guarantee' (similar to what you would get from a used car dealer).
I have had some small successes in the past with buying and selling used bikes.
I would welcome and thoughts / comments.
Long version: it wont work for many reasons.
1. First and foremost the market is awash with road bikes around £500, this is entry level
stuff that has been used to get people into the sport and they are now upgrading. What you are doing is adding a premium to a flooded market and expecting people to pay more than they need to. There are loads of honest sellers out there already and it doesnt take a genius to spot them.
2. Guaranteeing a price based on some photos is really brave. Most bikes are upgraded so you are not dealing with stock bikes which you can compare against an RRP which makes pricing them hard. I could sell you my bike which, in photos at least, would look like a good buy for you but unbeknownst to you there there were a lot of worn parts on the drivetrain that you wouldnt notice from the pictures. The headset could be knackered, the bottom bracket could be knackered, there could be all sorts of squeaks and creaks coming from any number of places...
Its only when you get the bike, you realise you bought a pup but i have the cash thanks to your guaranteed offer... If you try to take into account any parts that may need to be replaced, your guaranteed offer will be so derisory I wont bother.
How do you deal with structural issues regarding carbon frames? You gave me a guaranteed offer but the frame I send you has had a massive knock that you cant see from the photos because, being carbon, the damage is on the inside of the tubes...
3. Any parts that you decide to change will cost you a lot of money, unless you have a trade account with the likes of Madison et al (which will almost certainly require a bricks and mortar retail unit) thus you are paying a lot of money to fix the problems which you will nee to recoup. As I said, you are then adding on your costs, profit etc to a bike in a flooded market.
4. Your used bike guarantee would need to be very thorough before I was even remotely interested. Cars are complicated hence you get a warranty, bikes arent but if I'm paying your premium prices compared to the rest of the market, I'd want 12 months warranty on the drivetrain, all bearings including BB, headset and wheels etc included and I'd also want you to be paying the return postage should anything go wrong and need repairing.
5. You would be mad to even touch MTBs, pivot bearings, shocks, hydraulic brakes etc...
Dont get me wrong, on a hobby level there is money in used bikes. I saw a new Van Nicholas go cheap on ebay recently because it was spelt "Van Nichlas" and only a few people spotted it, RRP was over £1k and someone got it for around £550 and could resell immediately for close to £800.
What I think you will end up with is a lot of entry level aluminium bikes for sale that are 10-15% more expensive than the rest of the market but come with a warranty that, in all seriousness, if I have to send it back to you for repairs etc, would be a lot of faff to resolve on a £500 bike....
No one is going to send you their bike without a guaranteed offer but you need that guaranteed offer to be attractive to the seller and still leave you room should any parts need replacing. Its just not going to work.
ALawson said:
Interesting, they offer a cash now, sale on comission or px value. They obviously have contacts though as they are dealing in high end kit from reputable sources, ex-demo stock etc... They are expensive bikes mind and the 3 month guarantee covers pretty much nothing. Points taken.
I know there is a lot of work to be done and a lot of issues would have to be ironed out. Is the market out there or as you describe, is it too flooded?
There is a large element of risk with regards to the conditions of the bikes, but as with any bike sale - if not sold as described, is there not a come back to this. Or is it sold as seen / viewed online?
I know there is a lot of work to be done and a lot of issues would have to be ironed out. Is the market out there or as you describe, is it too flooded?
There is a large element of risk with regards to the conditions of the bikes, but as with any bike sale - if not sold as described, is there not a come back to this. Or is it sold as seen / viewed online?
OP, there is no money in your idea, none, zero, zilch, nada.
If you really want to get creative and start some kind of bike company then get out to Taiwan and start importing carbon 700c disc road wheels from Gigantex or similar, rebranded as 'your name' for the disc brake road bike crowd.
There will be plenty of numpties wanting to 'upgrade' their OEM spec wheels over the next 5+ years and few companies out there offering cheap product.
Thank me later.
If you really want to get creative and start some kind of bike company then get out to Taiwan and start importing carbon 700c disc road wheels from Gigantex or similar, rebranded as 'your name' for the disc brake road bike crowd.
There will be plenty of numpties wanting to 'upgrade' their OEM spec wheels over the next 5+ years and few companies out there offering cheap product.
Thank me later.
To make this work you would need
A trade account although you can buy from CRC and Wiggle for pretty much Trade, but youd still need a Trade account for all manner of bearings and replacement parts that the mail order boys didnt currently stock or had a higher price on
You would need to see the bike before offering on it
You should also be running a workshop for regular local repairs to keep the money coming in.
Be aware that the market is currently flooded and prices are dropping considerably
Many Local bike shops are struggling
Probably a few other concerns but its too late at night to be thinking any more about this
A trade account although you can buy from CRC and Wiggle for pretty much Trade, but youd still need a Trade account for all manner of bearings and replacement parts that the mail order boys didnt currently stock or had a higher price on
You would need to see the bike before offering on it
You should also be running a workshop for regular local repairs to keep the money coming in.
Be aware that the market is currently flooded and prices are dropping considerably
Many Local bike shops are struggling
Probably a few other concerns but its too late at night to be thinking any more about this
I have to say "Webuyanycar" really piss me off. When I sold my last car I got them to give me a price, and it was a joke, at least a thousand pounds less than I got for it in the end. A friend who lives abroad was desperate to sell his A4, and he sold via them, and is very bitter about the experience. As a result their adverts wind me up, I wonder if the advertising standards agency would be interested in them, they are so bad.
You only need to type "Specilaised Allez" into ebay to see how many are for sale and what the buy it now price is listed as, and thats before you start searching for Trek, Giant etc. The sub £500 secondhand market really is flooded and most of those looked to be good bikes. Yes there is a risk with an ebay purchase but ebay are reknowned for siding with the buyer should things get messy. With other private secondhand sales, you can agree a price on the phone but still walk away if you dont like what you see.
The similar website dealing with Golf clubs is a good business model to copy in principle but their most expensive set of irons is listed as £370 which, for most people, isnt that much of a risky purhcase, especially on something with signifiantly fewer moving parts than a bicycle.
The similar website dealing with Golf clubs is a good business model to copy in principle but their most expensive set of irons is listed as £370 which, for most people, isnt that much of a risky purhcase, especially on something with signifiantly fewer moving parts than a bicycle.
It could work I think, for a few reasons.
Just because eBay is full of bikes doesn't mean they sell (even if the auction ends with a winning bidder). There's always the risk of the buyer not turning up, and if you can ship nationally for a decent price that makes a big difference.
The elephant in the room is stolen bikes, and how you can avoid them. There is no central register of all bikes reported as stolen so you will need to be extremely careful or have some kind of claw-back mechanism for the cash if the bike turns out to be stolen.
What kind of margin would you expect to take? This will be the real issue as with the logistics and 'service' of the bike when it comes back you're going to need at least £2-300 per bike which will be hard to achieve on some stuff. What will you do if you buy something in and it doesn't move for months?
You will need to stock a decent range of models and sizes if you want people to come back to your site, probably a minimum of 40-50 bikes at any one time and that's a reasonable chunk of capital (and storage space) to tie up.
Just because eBay is full of bikes doesn't mean they sell (even if the auction ends with a winning bidder). There's always the risk of the buyer not turning up, and if you can ship nationally for a decent price that makes a big difference.
The elephant in the room is stolen bikes, and how you can avoid them. There is no central register of all bikes reported as stolen so you will need to be extremely careful or have some kind of claw-back mechanism for the cash if the bike turns out to be stolen.
What kind of margin would you expect to take? This will be the real issue as with the logistics and 'service' of the bike when it comes back you're going to need at least £2-300 per bike which will be hard to achieve on some stuff. What will you do if you buy something in and it doesn't move for months?
You will need to stock a decent range of models and sizes if you want people to come back to your site, probably a minimum of 40-50 bikes at any one time and that's a reasonable chunk of capital (and storage space) to tie up.
Some sort of "bike finder" broker type buiness might work... Get the newbies and the confused engaged, say to them, I wil lfind your ideal bike for £xxx budget and then use your knowledge to get them the right bike. They have to place a lot of trust in you for sure but you get them to fill in an info sheet with some basic body measurements and their preferred choice of spec, colour, gear level, geometry etc then you buy their bike and when they have confirmed they are happy, they pay you and you ship it? If they dont buy it then you have some stock which you can sell on through the usual means...
allezbikes said:
We got chatting about bikes and he said he had an old Specialized that he was struggling to sell (no time, time wasters, routes to sell it through etc etc).
I fail to see how such a prominent branded bike would not sell fast through eBay unless priced too high. How has he tried to sell it, what is the spec and how much is/was he asking?How would you expect to buy it for less than it would fetch on eBay and how would you sell it for more than it would fetch on eBay (plus your significant new overheads and margin)
I'm sorry but your idea is to try and compete with said auction site without any upside and carrying far too much risk.
What Ive always thought could work is a second hand section in most bike shops I don't see why they don't do this more. A lot would be buying a bike they had sold previously giving a px against a new bike they then refurbish / service the nearly new second hand bike and sell it on. Win win surely.
BoRED S2upid said:
What Ive always thought could work is a second hand section in most bike shops I don't see why they don't do this more. A lot would be buying a bike they had sold previously giving a px against a new bike they then refurbish / service the nearly new second hand bike and sell it on. Win win surely.
The issue is the space and capital tied up in used stock. With new bikes you need a display model or two and order in the size a customer wants, maybe you cover the common sizes with different variants across the range. With used bikes you can't just order in what the customer wants, which means holding stock in various sizes, tying up cash and storage space. To make the margin on a used bike would mean buying it really cheaply and selling it for a high price so there simply isn't the money in the deal to make it worthwhile except on really high end stuff.pablo said:
The similar website dealing with Golf clubs is a good business model to copy in principle but their most expensive set of irons is listed as £370 which, for most people, isnt that much of a risky purhcase, especially on something with signifiantly fewer moving parts than a bicycle.
Surely you've just underlined exactly why the OP's would work. Golfbidder works because people don't trust Ebay to purhcase something that you say has a maximum price of £370 and is not a risky purchase. It works because Golfbidder inspect all the clubs and give an honest opinion of their quality having refurbished and cleaned them. Buyers trust them when they don't trust Ebay. So if you're saying it works for non risky purchases of less than £370, then it's surely more likely to work for far riskier purchases (moving parts) where values can be north of £1,000.I don't necessarily think bikes are comparable to golf clubs, as golfers are a fickle breed and a very large demographic regularly swap clubs several times a year and sites like Golf Bidder make things much easier. So whilst the idea of the OP's site is good, whether it would actually be financially viable is a different matter.
A golf stick's a golf stick though, like a car's a car.
A bike is a collection of parts which may or may not all be nailed together correctly and each worn to a certain degree and which together either fitted, or did not fit, the orignal purchaser.
If you can source older high end bikes cheap, great, strip them and flog the parts on eBay. If they're not worn out of course. Most valuable will probs be the wheels, and the rims can wear out alarmingly fast, which reduces that value to not much.
Framesets, who knows, nobody will pay much because as already said, you don't know the history.
I've a nice 1 year old carbon Synapse frameset in my garage. Looks fine. Nobody can tell (just by looking at it) that my mate crashed it at 20mph into the side of a car whose driver pulled out in front of him. Nearly killed him tbh, but I've wiped the blood off.
A bike is a collection of parts which may or may not all be nailed together correctly and each worn to a certain degree and which together either fitted, or did not fit, the orignal purchaser.
If you can source older high end bikes cheap, great, strip them and flog the parts on eBay. If they're not worn out of course. Most valuable will probs be the wheels, and the rims can wear out alarmingly fast, which reduces that value to not much.
Framesets, who knows, nobody will pay much because as already said, you don't know the history.
I've a nice 1 year old carbon Synapse frameset in my garage. Looks fine. Nobody can tell (just by looking at it) that my mate crashed it at 20mph into the side of a car whose driver pulled out in front of him. Nearly killed him tbh, but I've wiped the blood off.
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