snow tyres (for tarmac)

[zebedee]

Having come off twice on ice on my cross bike (700x28 tyres) I vowed not to bother again if temps had gone below zero in the night.

However, buoyed by my experience of winter tyres on my car, I am considering getting some snow and ice tyres for my mtb, with metal studs. I could then use that to ride the 5-6 miles to the station. I saw some Schwalbe ones with reviews saying they could be ridden across black ice/cambers etc with good stability. Anyone on here got any experience?

[frisbee]

Not tried them but Planet X had a deal on studded tyres for about a tenner each around this time last year.

[NCC]

Schwalbe Ice Spikers. Awesome things on ice and packed snow.





I've used them commuting too occasionally. You get the added benefit of never needing a bell.........

[Rob_T]

I have a pair of these although use 700x35 versions. Used them for the last 3 years commuting thought the winter when the roads have been snowy / icy... They work extremely well and thoroughly recommend them. They click a lot on Tarmac as you would imagine but there doesn't seem to be any lasting damage as a result.

[Dammit]

They throw studs in my experience - I emailed Schwalbe and they sent me an envelope of spares, which was nice of them.

Get the correct tool for fitting them - way easier than pushing them in with a pair of needle nose pliers.

[SteveSteveson]

I could be wrong, but I think there are two types of studded tyres. Those with studs along the middle, for crossing snow, ice and mud, and those (like the Schwalbe Marathon Winter) with no studs along the middle, but offset, so you are primarily running on rubber in a strait line and the spikes help with cornering, and can be run at lower pressures to bring the spikes more in to play is going gets worse, which are for tarmac with possible ice.

Just to be clear, check this out as I could have misunderstood.

[zebedee]

Rob_T said:

I have a pair of these although use 700x35 versions. Used them for the last 3 years commuting thought the winter when the roads have been snowy / icy... They work extremely well and thoroughly recommend them. They click a lot on Tarmac as you would imagine but there doesn't seem to be any lasting damage as a result.

Pair of Schwalbe ice spikers? I could use those on my cross bike. So you would say you can ride on roads that you would almost inevitably have come off on before?

[NCC]

Have ridden on ice coated tarmac, up and down very steep hills and round corners with no problems at all. In fact, I have photos somewhere of what was effectively carnage for the rest of a group I was with last year, while I simply road straight on as usual. A bit of a 'leap of faith' is required though, as your brain tells you that what you're about to do is a very silly idea indeed!

As for losing spikes, mine are pretty much fully intact after 3 seasons use but I did run them in first for 20km on tarmac before riding offroad, which given your intended use shouldn't be a concern and I do only use them when the temps drop low enough to warrant it.

I can't emphasise the Panzer Tank effect enough though. They really are LOUD on tarmac, so if you're after something for pure commuting use, you might be better off with these:

http://www.schwalbe.com/gb/spike-reader/winter.htm...

[Rob_T]

zebedee said:

Pair of Schwalbe ice spikers? I could use those on my cross bike. So you would say you can ride on roads that you would almost inevitably have come off on before?

Yes.

[zebedee]

swerni said:

Metal spikes won't help you on Tarmac unless it's been snowing.
I came off my cross bike on 28c a coupl of years ago and cracked my ribs, very low speed, but very painful.
I put some 35c knobby tyres on and felt much more secure

I do have spiked tyres and they are great in the snow

not sure that is necessarily correct. If the weight of the bike is located on across a couple of spikes on a layer of frost or very thin ice, the bike is surely less likely to move laterally, which is what makes you fall out as the tyres basically kick out from under you with no time to correct it.

I can handle the noise on tarmac too, it is a ride to the station, so 60% off it is rural

[zebedee]

they don't have to dig in though surely? If you rest 80kg of rider and bike across a few metal spikes, it would take a lot more effort to make it slip laterally on say frosted tarmac than a postage stamp's worth of rubber wouldn't it?

Low pressures on a 35 with a cambered black ice (however thin) road and you are off, no matter how skilful you are.

[zebedee]

because the weight of everything on a point imparts a very great pressure on that point on the ground, so it would surely be hard to push or slip that point out on a lightly frosted road with an upright load on it, whereas a tyre on frost would be relatively easy to slip out of line by anything like a camber change or even balance shift.

But then I guess it isn't just the metal point on the road, there will be tyre carcass as well. In which case maybe they are no better at avoiding slips on frosty/thin black ice roads at all. There are so few days when there is any snow and there is never, just never, 5mm or whatever of actual ice on any distance of a road beyond a frozen puddle to dig into, so what is the point of these tyres then?

[SixPotBelly]

For people that live in mountainous areas where the roads aren't cleared? Same as spiked car tyres. For cold tarmac you'd fit winter tyres, not spiked tyres.

[zebedee]

SixPotBelly said:

For people that live in mountainous areas where the roads aren't cleared? Same as spiked car tyres. For cold tarmac you'd fit winter tyres, not spiked tyres.

Cars don't fall over though. And as impressed as I am by winter tyres for a car (very!), I don't think the same works on a bike. Basically I have hit frost or very light ice (i.e. too thin for a spike to 'dig' into) twice and come off. It doesn't sound like these spiked tyres will make any real difference after all.

[SixPotBelly]

zebedee said:

Cars don't fall over though. And as impressed as I am by winter tyres for a car (very!), I don't think the same works on a bike. Basically I have hit frost or very light ice (i.e. too thin for a spike to 'dig' into) twice and come off. It doesn't sound like these spiked tyres will make any real difference after all.

Indeed. For the avoidance of any confusion, I'm agreeing with the posters who said spiked tyres would be worse on tarmac than non-spiked tyres.

You could consider there to be three types of tyre. Summer tyres, winter tyres and spiked tyres. Winter tyres are not spiked. They are designed for cold tarmac and have a different compound/construction for a lower designed temperature range than summer tyres. Spiked tyres are designed to dig into soft surfaces, they are not designed for tarmac. If you've ever had to across a tarmac path wearing spiked running shoes in a cross country race, it'd be like that.

Edited by SixPotBelly on Monday 26th October 19:58

[zebedee]

but would a spiked running shoe be better on a patch of frost on a tarmac road though? That is what I need to know. In the UK we don't really get great swathes of snow or indeed ice on the road, we get patches of incredibly thin 'black ice' or just moisture frozen to the surface as frost in the mornings. Those are the things that will have me off my bike in a heartbeat. I just want to know if a spiked tyre will stop the bike slipping out on those conditions, preferably from people who have experienced it.

[Rob_T]

i can confirm i have cycled on icy road surfaces when there has not been any snow on the ground. these surface to walk on would have been slippery and dangerous but caused no problem on the snow / ice tyres provided you cycle sensibly and with care. standard tyres would not have coped. i would not wish to cycle down a hill on icy roads with these tyres though. that is my experience of 3 winters with them.

the truth is, physics will always win, so best not try and push the boat (bike?) out too far with spikes.

[zebedee]

But UK roads tend to have very thin ice, if any, on them, often it is a fine layer of frost. So I can't see the point in pointy tyres it seems. It isn't as though you would ride 5 miles with a cm of ice under you the whole way, that just doesn't happen. If they still mean I will be off the first time I hit a patch of frost, which is brought me down twice before, then clearly it will just have to be a case of putting the bike away on sub zero days.

[jim3]

Zebedee - I have used 'all season', winter and spiked tyres (Nokien 32 mm, spikes along each side and not in middle) over the years. In my experience, its the patches if frost or very thin ice on a slight bend that have caught me out on winter tyres. The Nokiens completely eliminated this. For actual thick sniw and ice you need proper fully spiked wide tyres. However for my commute on normal roads with occasional patches of frost and ice, the Nokiens are categorically less likely to slip.

[matt-ITR]

swerni said:

Metal spikes won't help you on Tarmac unless it's been snowing.
I came off my cross bike on 28c a coupl of years ago and cracked my ribs, very low speed, but very painful.
I put some 35c knobby tyres on and felt much more secure

I do have spiked tyres and they are great in the snow

Wrong, opposite is true infact.
In fresh snow you don't need studs, just having some tread is all that is needed - ie. MTB/Cross tyre.
Studs only work on ice - tarmac or not. I am counting frozen snow as ice here too.