Which fast road bike?
Discussion
I'm looking for a fast road bike to compliment my Giant Defy Advanced SL1 (2014) and BMC GF01 (2015).
Ideally the bike will have Ultegra Di2 and disc brakes as I'm now converted to both.
I've no intention of racing the bike, I just want to be able to go as fast as I can for short rides.
My research so far has resulted in a shortlist of 3 bikes:
1) Specialized Tarmac S-Works
I've had a demo on a SL4 (old model which has a new frame for this year) and came away disappointed - hard work to get up to speed and didn't feel as quick/lively as my
Defy.
This surprised me as I was expecting it to be an absolute speed machine being as the S-Works bikes seem so popular in the peleton this year. I read a recent comment from
a pro rider who went from a top Italian bike to an S-Works and he said it was like comparing a Ferrari to a Ford Mondeo and this is just how it felt.
I've also tried a Tarmac Pro Race, thinking a better quality frame might make the difference, and whilst being a slight improvement over the SL4, still didn't serve up
the response I'm looking for which is a strong connection between the pedals/bottom bracket/chain stays/rear wheel to get the maximum acceleration with each pedal stroke.
2) Trek Emonda SLR
I've had a demo on a SL6 and was very impressed. A big improvement over the Tarmac. Again will the SLR quality frame be another step up from the SL?
This is the bike I would go for if only it had discs. Know one yet knows if it will come with discs for 2016.
3) Giant Defy Advanced SL1
I know this is more of a sportive than a race bike, but having tried other bikes and realising just how good the Defy is I'm keen to find out if the 2015 version is any
better than what I've already got. Giant claim a new frame for this year, plus it comes with discs.
I haven't yet had the opportunity to try one.
Does anyone on here own one of these bikes and be able to offer some feedback?
Are there any other bikes I should consider?
What I'm finding is that it's virtually impossible to get a demo on a bike with a top end frame. The retailers only seem to stock the bikes lower down in the range.
This being the case how do I know what difference, if any, a better quality carbon frame will make?
From all of the sales people I've spoken to so far, they all say get the one that feels the most comfortable and fits best. How the bike actually rides and responds, seems to be of secondary importance and I've been told that they all pretty much feel the same. I know from all the bikes that I've ever ridden that this isn't the case. Sure it's important to try a bike to check that you can get comfortable on it, but I can feel the difference in how a bike responds.
Thanks in advance for any feedback, comments and suggestions.
Ideally the bike will have Ultegra Di2 and disc brakes as I'm now converted to both.
I've no intention of racing the bike, I just want to be able to go as fast as I can for short rides.
My research so far has resulted in a shortlist of 3 bikes:
1) Specialized Tarmac S-Works
I've had a demo on a SL4 (old model which has a new frame for this year) and came away disappointed - hard work to get up to speed and didn't feel as quick/lively as my
Defy.
This surprised me as I was expecting it to be an absolute speed machine being as the S-Works bikes seem so popular in the peleton this year. I read a recent comment from
a pro rider who went from a top Italian bike to an S-Works and he said it was like comparing a Ferrari to a Ford Mondeo and this is just how it felt.
I've also tried a Tarmac Pro Race, thinking a better quality frame might make the difference, and whilst being a slight improvement over the SL4, still didn't serve up
the response I'm looking for which is a strong connection between the pedals/bottom bracket/chain stays/rear wheel to get the maximum acceleration with each pedal stroke.
2) Trek Emonda SLR
I've had a demo on a SL6 and was very impressed. A big improvement over the Tarmac. Again will the SLR quality frame be another step up from the SL?
This is the bike I would go for if only it had discs. Know one yet knows if it will come with discs for 2016.
3) Giant Defy Advanced SL1
I know this is more of a sportive than a race bike, but having tried other bikes and realising just how good the Defy is I'm keen to find out if the 2015 version is any
better than what I've already got. Giant claim a new frame for this year, plus it comes with discs.
I haven't yet had the opportunity to try one.
Does anyone on here own one of these bikes and be able to offer some feedback?
Are there any other bikes I should consider?
What I'm finding is that it's virtually impossible to get a demo on a bike with a top end frame. The retailers only seem to stock the bikes lower down in the range.
This being the case how do I know what difference, if any, a better quality carbon frame will make?
From all of the sales people I've spoken to so far, they all say get the one that feels the most comfortable and fits best. How the bike actually rides and responds, seems to be of secondary importance and I've been told that they all pretty much feel the same. I know from all the bikes that I've ever ridden that this isn't the case. Sure it's important to try a bike to check that you can get comfortable on it, but I can feel the difference in how a bike responds.
Thanks in advance for any feedback, comments and suggestions.
drivin_me_nuts said:
Just a thought, but if you like the Emonda, try the Domane, I tried both and the ride of the Domane means you can go way faster over those bits that will have you wincing with the Emonda.
Hi DMN,Thanks for the suggestion but I tried a Domane before I got the Defy and whilst it offered a lovely ride with the Iso-coupler, IMO it just didn't feel fast enough.
If you want to go fast, get a TT/Tri bike.
Disc brakes could be a problem but there´s always the possibility of using Magura hydraulic TT brakes, standard fit on some Cervelos I believe.
A forward post and some clip-on aerobars will get you into a more aerodynamic position on a standard road bike and win you a couple of MPH. Redshift do a really neat system:
http://www.redshiftsports.com/dual-position-seatpo...
Disc brakes could be a problem but there´s always the possibility of using Magura hydraulic TT brakes, standard fit on some Cervelos I believe.
A forward post and some clip-on aerobars will get you into a more aerodynamic position on a standard road bike and win you a couple of MPH. Redshift do a really neat system:
http://www.redshiftsports.com/dual-position-seatpo...
Ballistic said:
I'm looking for a fast road bike to compliment my Giant Defy Advanced SL1 (2014) and BMC GF01 (2015).
Ideally the bike will have Ultegra Di2 and disc brakes as I'm now converted to both.
I've no intention of racing the bike, I just want to be able to go as fast as I can for short rides.
My research so far has resulted in a shortlist of 3 bikes:
1) Specialized Tarmac S-Works
I've had a demo on a SL4 (old model which has a new frame for this year) and came away disappointed - hard work to get up to speed and didn't feel as quick/lively as my
Defy.
This surprised me as I was expecting it to be an absolute speed machine being as the S-Works bikes seem so popular in the peleton this year. I read a recent comment from
a pro rider who went from a top Italian bike to an S-Works and he said it was like comparing a Ferrari to a Ford Mondeo and this is just how it felt.
I've also tried a Tarmac Pro Race, thinking a better quality frame might make the difference, and whilst being a slight improvement over the SL4, still didn't serve up
the response I'm looking for which is a strong connection between the pedals/bottom bracket/chain stays/rear wheel to get the maximum acceleration with each pedal stroke.
2) Trek Emonda SLR
I've had a demo on a SL6 and was very impressed. A big improvement over the Tarmac. Again will the SLR quality frame be another step up from the SL?
This is the bike I would go for if only it had discs. Know one yet knows if it will come with discs for 2016.
3) Giant Defy Advanced SL1
I know this is more of a sportive than a race bike, but having tried other bikes and realising just how good the Defy is I'm keen to find out if the 2015 version is any
better than what I've already got. Giant claim a new frame for this year, plus it comes with discs.
I haven't yet had the opportunity to try one.
Does anyone on here own one of these bikes and be able to offer some feedback?
Are there any other bikes I should consider?
What I'm finding is that it's virtually impossible to get a demo on a bike with a top end frame. The retailers only seem to stock the bikes lower down in the range.
This being the case how do I know what difference, if any, a better quality carbon frame will make?
From all of the sales people I've spoken to so far, they all say get the one that feels the most comfortable and fits best. How the bike actually rides and responds, seems to be of secondary importance and I've been told that they all pretty much feel the same. I know from all the bikes that I've ever ridden that this isn't the case. Sure it's important to try a bike to check that you can get comfortable on it, but I can feel the difference in how a bike responds.
Thanks in advance for any feedback, comments and suggestions.
The only thing that makes a bike a speed machine is the bloke on it. Ideally the bike will have Ultegra Di2 and disc brakes as I'm now converted to both.
I've no intention of racing the bike, I just want to be able to go as fast as I can for short rides.
My research so far has resulted in a shortlist of 3 bikes:
1) Specialized Tarmac S-Works
I've had a demo on a SL4 (old model which has a new frame for this year) and came away disappointed - hard work to get up to speed and didn't feel as quick/lively as my
Defy.
This surprised me as I was expecting it to be an absolute speed machine being as the S-Works bikes seem so popular in the peleton this year. I read a recent comment from
a pro rider who went from a top Italian bike to an S-Works and he said it was like comparing a Ferrari to a Ford Mondeo and this is just how it felt.
I've also tried a Tarmac Pro Race, thinking a better quality frame might make the difference, and whilst being a slight improvement over the SL4, still didn't serve up
the response I'm looking for which is a strong connection between the pedals/bottom bracket/chain stays/rear wheel to get the maximum acceleration with each pedal stroke.
2) Trek Emonda SLR
I've had a demo on a SL6 and was very impressed. A big improvement over the Tarmac. Again will the SLR quality frame be another step up from the SL?
This is the bike I would go for if only it had discs. Know one yet knows if it will come with discs for 2016.
3) Giant Defy Advanced SL1
I know this is more of a sportive than a race bike, but having tried other bikes and realising just how good the Defy is I'm keen to find out if the 2015 version is any
better than what I've already got. Giant claim a new frame for this year, plus it comes with discs.
I haven't yet had the opportunity to try one.
Does anyone on here own one of these bikes and be able to offer some feedback?
Are there any other bikes I should consider?
What I'm finding is that it's virtually impossible to get a demo on a bike with a top end frame. The retailers only seem to stock the bikes lower down in the range.
This being the case how do I know what difference, if any, a better quality carbon frame will make?
From all of the sales people I've spoken to so far, they all say get the one that feels the most comfortable and fits best. How the bike actually rides and responds, seems to be of secondary importance and I've been told that they all pretty much feel the same. I know from all the bikes that I've ever ridden that this isn't the case. Sure it's important to try a bike to check that you can get comfortable on it, but I can feel the difference in how a bike responds.
Thanks in advance for any feedback, comments and suggestions.
Also I don't think you know what you've even ridden? A Sl4 S Works frame is the top of the range frame, a pro race is a lower spec bike. Its one of the stiffest bikes you can buy so I am struggling with your review somewhat...the BB is gigantic, I've not ridden a stiffer bike and I have had plenty.
I think you're probably falling into the marketing trap quite hard, make sure these bikes have the same level of kit on them, much of what you're talking about in terms of how you're judging the bikes can be put down to the equipment attached to the frame. Often on prebuilt bikes this equipment is poor unless you're spending thousands.
Regarding what the shops are telling you...they know that between the top bikes there is little difference, hence saying get one that you like thats comfortable.
Ballistic said:
Hi DMN,
Thanks for the suggestion but I tried a Domane before I got the Defy and whilst it offered a lovely ride with the Iso-coupler, IMO it just didn't feel fast enough.
Surely 'fastest' means more aero which ultimately means you can ride on a better position for longer thus riding quicker? So an aero bike in the shape of the Madone/Aeroad/AR1//S5/Propel + deep section wheels with a custom fit based on your personal level of flexibility is going to be the best option. Thanks for the suggestion but I tried a Domane before I got the Defy and whilst it offered a lovely ride with the Iso-coupler, IMO it just didn't feel fast enough.
Personally I don't get all this test riding of multiple bikes. You'd need to test 5 plus bikes back to back over a lengthy ride with the same road/weather conditions. Its simply not going to happen. Unless you have a very odd shape or lack flexibility then just pick the one you like and have it fitted properly.
Pro's don't get a choice on what they ride ... and do you ever hear them blaming their bikes when they don't win?
How about a Giant Propel? The 2.5k one doesn't have discs and "only " 105 but felt effing quick when I Demo'd one. In my experience Giant only have top end demo bikes but it was enough to convince me the 1650 Propel was what I wanted. Comfort is ok too - did 28 hours on it Everesting last week.
No idea on performance, never sat on one, although seen them for sale in local bike shop. I do like the look of them the bb area looks very over engineered.
http://www.storck-bicycle.cc/road-bikes/aernario-d...
http://www.storck-bicycle.cc/road-bikes/aernario-p...
http://www.storck-bicycle.cc/road-bikes/aernario-d...
http://www.storck-bicycle.cc/road-bikes/aernario-p...
Everything on your list is what I would describe as a performance (top end) endurance bike. The Pros use them on the long stages and are stupidly fast maintaining a high avg speed but thats the rider not the bike. As stiff and fast as the bikes are, the riders spend upwards of 10k kms on them each year so have their position dialled to perfection for long stage races. Buying the new Defy wont make you any faster, its still pitching you upright a little too much.
If you want to go as fast as you can over short distances, you need to sacrifice as much comfort as you can bear for aero gains vs personally I'd go for something with a much shorter headtube than the bikes you suggest, something that will allow you to get your body really low and stretched (and uncomfortable!) and build it yourself using the best aero parts you can for the budget.
Get a bike fit, tell them what you want to do and get them to put you in a position that you feel you could sustain for an hour or two, flat back etc etc, then you are reducing the greatest source of air resistance which is your body.... then go look for the bike that has the geo that matches your position or at least has a good starting point for you to adjust, have you tried your current bike with a neg 17 degree stem etc?
The Dedacciai Alteta got a great review in Cyclist recently and I saw one in the flesh recently and it was well finished and a very short headtube, couple that with some deep aero wheels, specialised aerofly bars etc etc. The Canyon Aeroad is worth a look, Bianchi Oltre XR1, and if you have the cash, look at Cipolini....
Dont discount the alu frames like the CAAD10 either nothing makes you feel like riding hard and going fast than a good alu frame... pimp up a CAAD10 frameset with some deep carbon rims and it will fly.
Your other options are a deep set of wheels for your current bikes and a coach to help you get faster.
If you want to go as fast as you can over short distances, you need to sacrifice as much comfort as you can bear for aero gains vs personally I'd go for something with a much shorter headtube than the bikes you suggest, something that will allow you to get your body really low and stretched (and uncomfortable!) and build it yourself using the best aero parts you can for the budget.
Get a bike fit, tell them what you want to do and get them to put you in a position that you feel you could sustain for an hour or two, flat back etc etc, then you are reducing the greatest source of air resistance which is your body.... then go look for the bike that has the geo that matches your position or at least has a good starting point for you to adjust, have you tried your current bike with a neg 17 degree stem etc?
The Dedacciai Alteta got a great review in Cyclist recently and I saw one in the flesh recently and it was well finished and a very short headtube, couple that with some deep aero wheels, specialised aerofly bars etc etc. The Canyon Aeroad is worth a look, Bianchi Oltre XR1, and if you have the cash, look at Cipolini....
Dont discount the alu frames like the CAAD10 either nothing makes you feel like riding hard and going fast than a good alu frame... pimp up a CAAD10 frameset with some deep carbon rims and it will fly.
Your other options are a deep set of wheels for your current bikes and a coach to help you get faster.
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 7th June 20:27
Pinarello Dogma
The Bike Rooms in Manchester and Sindon have weekend rides, and you can ride a demo bike for the ride just ring them up and book a bike.
I have had a SLS S works and a Dogma 65.1 and the S works was a little sharper and a little more aggressive, the Dogma is a bike you can spend over 8 hours sat on and feel like you could do another hour, the S works is not, well the way mine where/are set up it was that way round for me.
The Bike Rooms in Manchester and Sindon have weekend rides, and you can ride a demo bike for the ride just ring them up and book a bike.
I have had a SLS S works and a Dogma 65.1 and the S works was a little sharper and a little more aggressive, the Dogma is a bike you can spend over 8 hours sat on and feel like you could do another hour, the S works is not, well the way mine where/are set up it was that way round for me.
Pablo - plenty of food for thought there.
I will experiment with optimising my bikes and better wheels are on the upgrade list.
Any ideas on how best to improve the standard wheels? So far I've been considering Zondas or for a bit more Pacenti sl25/CK.
I will experiment with optimising my bikes and better wheels are on the upgrade list.
Any ideas on how best to improve the standard wheels? So far I've been considering Zondas or for a bit more Pacenti sl25/CK.
Edited by Ballistic on Sunday 7th June 21:28
bigdom said:
No idea on performance, never sat on one, although seen them for sale in local bike shop. I do like the look of them the bb area looks very over engineered.
http://www.storck-bicycle.cc/road-bikes/aernario-d...
http://www.storck-bicycle.cc/road-bikes/aernario-p...
Thanks bigdom.http://www.storck-bicycle.cc/road-bikes/aernario-d...
http://www.storck-bicycle.cc/road-bikes/aernario-p...
I've not seen this bike before, it looks very interesting and I will have a closer look.
As as also been suggested, I will try and demo a Dogma and the Propel.
Shimano C24's are one of the best all round wheels
Deep section wheels are a bit harder to pick out a single good one I have a set of Swiss DT's 46mm deep and a set of Corima (38mm eep I think) and both are very good
Zips are good and cost more
Cheap carbon wheels from China are ok as long as you are aware of the risk/problems that can come with them.
I had a set of odd depth Swiss DT's 9Stolen) and these worked well on flat rides as the rear was a little heavier but possibly stiffer and a tiny bit more aero.
Deep section wheels are a bit harder to pick out a single good one I have a set of Swiss DT's 46mm deep and a set of Corima (38mm eep I think) and both are very good
Zips are good and cost more
Cheap carbon wheels from China are ok as long as you are aware of the risk/problems that can come with them.
I had a set of odd depth Swiss DT's 9Stolen) and these worked well on flat rides as the rear was a little heavier but possibly stiffer and a tiny bit more aero.
agentnomad said:
Shimano C24's are one of the best all round wheels
Deep section wheels are a bit harder to pick out a single good one I have a set of Swiss DT's 46mm deep and a set of Corima (38mm eep I think) and both are very good
Zips are good and cost more
Cheap carbon wheels from China are ok as long as you are aware of the risk/problems that can come with them.
I had a set of odd depth Swiss DT's 9Stolen) and these worked well on flat rides as the rear was a little heavier but possibly stiffer and a tiny bit more aero.
What are the risks/problems with the cheap China wheels?Deep section wheels are a bit harder to pick out a single good one I have a set of Swiss DT's 46mm deep and a set of Corima (38mm eep I think) and both are very good
Zips are good and cost more
Cheap carbon wheels from China are ok as long as you are aware of the risk/problems that can come with them.
I had a set of odd depth Swiss DT's 9Stolen) and these worked well on flat rides as the rear was a little heavier but possibly stiffer and a tiny bit more aero.
Surely appropriate geometry is going to give you a 'fast' bike? Obviously along with the legs that are powering it.
FWIW I ride a Wilier Gran Turismo which although pitched as a GT bike has suitably 'Italian' geometry. This is a bike that feels fast and lively and even riding it in town it feels like it wants to go fast. Spec is fairly standard with Campag Athena, Fulcrum R3s and Vittoria Open Corsa tyres.
By way of contrast I had a hire BMC TeamMachine in Tenerife, on paper this bike is at least as good and had a very similar spec, yet it didn't feel like it had the willingness of the Wilier and wasn't nearly so enjoyable to ride.
FWIW I ride a Wilier Gran Turismo which although pitched as a GT bike has suitably 'Italian' geometry. This is a bike that feels fast and lively and even riding it in town it feels like it wants to go fast. Spec is fairly standard with Campag Athena, Fulcrum R3s and Vittoria Open Corsa tyres.
By way of contrast I had a hire BMC TeamMachine in Tenerife, on paper this bike is at least as good and had a very similar spec, yet it didn't feel like it had the willingness of the Wilier and wasn't nearly so enjoyable to ride.
Ballistic said:
What are the risks/problems with the cheap China wheels?
You need to do a bit of research and find a supplier using quality (or at least sourceable and not no name unbranded) parts, I'm fairly sure my wheels are either Gigantex/Equinox rims on Novatec hubs with Pillar spokes which I'm happy nenough with for the price. Its also a pain if thre is a problem with them, mine have done about 500 miles without an issue though. Comms before the sale and during delivery was aexcellent though, better than most UK stores.Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff