4th Cat circuit racing,
Discussion
Started my first season of racing which has so far been on the track and I've seen some poor riding which has lead to some pretty bad smashes. In the 5 races so far, I think only one race hasn't had a smash ... I was caught up on one last week which sent me over the bars at 25mph but miraculously I got away unscathed and the bike didn't suffer any damage. Last night I saw the worst with the 3/4 race having a crash and someone eating tarmac with his nose hanging off and then in the 4's a huge smash with about 10 riders in a bunch sprint to the line ... bodies, bikes and blood and then an ambulance ... not a pretty sight.
Should 4th cat number be limited to fewer riders? Surely this would reduce the probability of accidents. I'm not a pussy by any means but at my age and with my responsibilities, and I accept racing has a risk, but the risk on the circuit seems to be a little higher than I'm comfortable with. Anyway, I've got a few points ... just need to ensure I get out of 4th Cat racing for next season if nothing else but to reduce the risk of breaking myself!
Should 4th cat number be limited to fewer riders? Surely this would reduce the probability of accidents. I'm not a pussy by any means but at my age and with my responsibilities, and I accept racing has a risk, but the risk on the circuit seems to be a little higher than I'm comfortable with. Anyway, I've got a few points ... just need to ensure I get out of 4th Cat racing for next season if nothing else but to reduce the risk of breaking myself!
Yip - in every race I've been in this year there have been accidents - always pretty much in front of me.. been pretty lucky to avoid hitting the floor thus far!
Agree that maybe a limit on numbers would help, but the biggest thing is people not holding lines, or not being used to riding in a bunch.. IMO getting to a training session like the ones they hold at cyclopark on a Wednesday night help a great deal!
Agree that maybe a limit on numbers would help, but the biggest thing is people not holding lines, or not being used to riding in a bunch.. IMO getting to a training session like the ones they hold at cyclopark on a Wednesday night help a great deal!
Rolls said:
Yip - in every race I've been in this year there have been accidents - always pretty much in front of me.. been pretty lucky to avoid hitting the floor thus far!
Agree that maybe a limit on numbers would help, but the biggest thing is people not holding lines, or not being used to riding in a bunch.. IMO getting to a training session like the ones they hold at cyclopark on a Wednesday night help a great deal!
Agreed, I don't think its lack of racing experience but bunch/group riding seem to be lacking. Applying the brakes mid corner and changing lines with no regard for who's around them seems to be the biggest issues. Agree that maybe a limit on numbers would help, but the biggest thing is people not holding lines, or not being used to riding in a bunch.. IMO getting to a training session like the ones they hold at cyclopark on a Wednesday night help a great deal!
I used to race before it became really popular. Races only had 20-30 people mostly and it was good fun. I was never very good but managed to get my 3rd cat. Eventually the numbers started ramping up and crashes increased. The final nail in my racing coffin was when I went to Thruxton around April 11 and there were 100 people in the field. I politely suggested they should split the race into two but they didn't. Sure enough there was a pretty bad smash, and I then decided to stop racing. From what I understand its got worse since.
I've arranged races too, and limited the field to 40, even that can be too many imho.
I've arranged races too, and limited the field to 40, even that can be too many imho.
Edited by S10GTA on Wednesday 15th April 13:33
This is the main reason I've never tried road bike racing - I'd only ever be doing it for idle curiousity and so although I would like to try it the risk of knackering my bike, and more importantly myself, just isn't worth it. I can't pretend to be the world's greatest bike handler either, so it's probably best for everyone that I stick to just doing the occasional sportive.
thiscocks said:
There wont suddenly be less crashes if you get to being a cat3 sadly! There are crashes in bike racing end of! Admittedly there is the occasional rider who cant manage to ride in a straight line but the only thing you can do is try to stay away from them.
Yes I agree but as my riding and fitness improves, staying away from track and doing road races will be safer!Rolls said:
Yeah - you end up having to stay in the front 10 /15 if you want to have any chance of being caught up with any spills ime!
I'm not so sure even thats safe. Both last night and last Tuesday I was in top 15 when the accidents happened. On the front is defo safe if you can hold it
JEA1K said:
I'm not so sure even thats safe. Both last night and last Tuesday I was in top 15 when the accidents happened. On the front is defo safe if you can hold it
The front/off the front isn't even safe! At the end of the day even the pro's crash all the time and its inevitable with that many people on bikes in such close proximity with varying skill levels. You just have to weigh up the risks and whether they are worth it.
I was spectating at Castle Combe on good Friday, some 180 entrants in the Cat 4 race alone!
It was carnage, at least 4 crashes, all at the chicanes because people don't realise you can't take the apex when you're 6-8 abreast despite all the warnings from the commisares to hold your line.
It was carnage, at least 4 crashes, all at the chicanes because people don't realise you can't take the apex when you're 6-8 abreast despite all the warnings from the commisares to hold your line.
fromage said:
The front/off the front isn't even safe!
At the end of the day even the pro's crash all the time and its inevitable with that many people on bikes in such close proximity with varying skill levels. You just have to weigh up the risks and whether they are worth it.
Your right of course, I should have said 'safer'. Agreed ... my bike has crash insurance for the frame/forks, unfortunately my body doesnt!At the end of the day even the pro's crash all the time and its inevitable with that many people on bikes in such close proximity with varying skill levels. You just have to weigh up the risks and whether they are worth it.
whatleytom said:
180 riders is absurd. I'm surprised there weren't more than four crashes!
Thats crazy, I can't imagine the bottlenecks a the twisty bits.Matt_N said:
I was spectating at Castle Combe on good Friday, some 180 entrants in the Cat 4 race alone!
It was carnage, at least 4 crashes, all at the chicanes because people don't realise you can't take the apex when you're 6-8 abreast despite all the warnings from the commisares to hold your line.
180! It was carnage, at least 4 crashes, all at the chicanes because people don't realise you can't take the apex when you're 6-8 abreast despite all the warnings from the commisares to hold your line.
I rode there at Easter in 2010 I think and there were 100 in the race. 180 is insane.
Don't think RR's are safer either. Was in a E1234 last year when the commissaire stopped the race due to people crossing white lines into oncoming traffic. Some people just disengage brain and don't think of others around them. I think you should have to be deemed competent at club level, whatever form that may take, before you head out into the competitive arena. Since I started racing last year I've been involved with two incidents, both at the beginning of the year due to others not handling their bike correctly. There might be a suck it up attitude from the majority, but there does come a point I suppose. I've insured my bike and kit this year and wouldn't race without it.
I had a quick dabble at crits a couple of years ago. It was a real surprise to me at the lack of bike skills on display. Coming from a MTB background I have a fair amount of bike skills and some of the blokes were just plain dangerous! I think some of them thought they were in a running race, just cutting across you wheel with no regard for anybody else , braking at random points, elbowing you around for a wheel. To be honest it made me laugh, but after witnessing a pretty bad crash, which by the grace of god I avoided, I decided that I didn't fancy it.
Without wanting to sound like a bike snob, I think part of the problem is that many more people are enjoying cycling and having a go, but they just think that because they can actually ride a bike, they can race, but they don't actually learn to RIDE a bike. It's the same on the MTB front as well, you see big groups of blokes rocking up to trail centres padded up to the hilt to grind their way up hills and frankly stumble down some quite straight forward descents.
I suppose it's the price you pay for a sport becoming more popular.
Without wanting to sound like a bike snob, I think part of the problem is that many more people are enjoying cycling and having a go, but they just think that because they can actually ride a bike, they can race, but they don't actually learn to RIDE a bike. It's the same on the MTB front as well, you see big groups of blokes rocking up to trail centres padded up to the hilt to grind their way up hills and frankly stumble down some quite straight forward descents.
I suppose it's the price you pay for a sport becoming more popular.
Wasnt there talk of a 5th Cat a while back? It seems odd that you need accreditation to ride on tracks but anyone can rock up and get involved in Cat 4 road racing. I know tracks are dangerous but then so is crit racing. I think the Cat 5 idea was that no points were on offer and it was paced behind a car/bike, might have just been one club/league though?
S10GTA said:
180!
I rode there at Easter in 2010 I think and there were 100 in the race. 180 is insane.
Yep, my mate took a chance on a race day entry and was No 179! I rode there at Easter in 2010 I think and there were 100 in the race. 180 is insane.
Great to see all the juniors there too, although like anything competitive (karting, racing etc) there seemed to be lots of parents taking it very seriously on their kids behalf.
After a while you get a feel for who the choppers are and just avoid their wheel. I was expecting carnage but I raced 3 cat 4 races at the start of the year and only got caught up behind one crash. Strangely I raced a 3/4 a couple of weeks ago and that was much more nervy.
Circuit choice helps too. 180 riders is just nuts!
Circuit choice helps too. 180 riders is just nuts!
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