Why don't you use cycle lanes?
Discussion
Just driven through Hollyrood park in Edinburgh. A separate cycle path is installed on the verge on both sides of the carriageway and still people ( ltonight ) cycle on the road. I followed a cyclist in a train of cars at 14 mph until a space in opposing traffic allowed us to pass. I gave a horn honk and pointed to the separate cycle path ...my thanks from the cyclist ...a shake of the fist. Recently the council installed a cycle path along part of the A1 trunk route through Leith/ Portobello..and I still see cyclists dawdling on the road next to the new pathway ...why ? It's for their own safety .i just can't understand it.
1. They don't go where I am heading
2. They are full of drains/gutters/broken glass/bits of hubcap
3. They go onto pavements, where pedestrians become a hazard
4. Some make you stop at every junction/side road to let joining traffic in.
5. They put stupid gates across them
6. You can't get a decent aero tow from a passing bus/lorry on the cycle path
2. They are full of drains/gutters/broken glass/bits of hubcap
3. They go onto pavements, where pedestrians become a hazard
4. Some make you stop at every junction/side road to let joining traffic in.
5. They put stupid gates across them
6. You can't get a decent aero tow from a passing bus/lorry on the cycle path
boyse7en said:
1. They don't go where I am heading
2. They are full of drains/gutters/broken glass/bits of hubcap
3. They go onto pavements, where pedestrians become a hazard
4. Some make you stop at every junction/side road to let joining traffic in.
5. They put stupid gates across them
6. You can't get a decent aero tow from a passing bus/lorry on the cycle path
Take your points (1-5) but have to say the two paths I mentioned are well maintained ( I drive alongside 4/5 times a week) your point 6. Whahooooo2. They are full of drains/gutters/broken glass/bits of hubcap
3. They go onto pavements, where pedestrians become a hazard
4. Some make you stop at every junction/side road to let joining traffic in.
5. They put stupid gates across them
6. You can't get a decent aero tow from a passing bus/lorry on the cycle path
To be honest I don't think its a question that really needs an answer.
Holyrood park is a scenic area with a speed limit of 20mph for cars.
Thousands of cyclists, including myself will regularly pedal through there at the same pace or higher than most cars do.
It really comes down to the fact that we have the freedom of choice and that there are so many pedestrians sauntering through that it would be unsafe to use the cycle paths.
If queenie was being driven through at 15mph would you have tooted her also?
Edited to add that my last journey through the lower section of the park was @ 23mph average with a peak of 34.1.
Holyrood park is a scenic area with a speed limit of 20mph for cars.
Thousands of cyclists, including myself will regularly pedal through there at the same pace or higher than most cars do.
It really comes down to the fact that we have the freedom of choice and that there are so many pedestrians sauntering through that it would be unsafe to use the cycle paths.
If queenie was being driven through at 15mph would you have tooted her also?
Edited to add that my last journey through the lower section of the park was @ 23mph average with a peak of 34.1.
Edited by General Madness on Friday 20th March 19:50
General Madness said:
To be honest I don't think its a question that really needs an answer.
Holyrood park is a scenic area with a speed limit of 20mph for cars.
Thousands of cyclists, including myself will regularly pedal through there at the same pace or higher than most cars do.
It really comes down to the fact that we have the freedom of choice and that there are so many pedestrians sauntering through that it would be unsafe to use the cycle paths.
If queenie was being driven through at 15mph would you have tooted her also?
Edited to add that my last journey through the lower section of the park was @ 23mph average with a peak of 34.1.
You are absolutely right re freedom of choice..from a personal viewpoint I think I would feel safer among sauntering pedestrians than 1.5 ton cars though. By the way the speed limit is for all users not just cars...watch out for mr plod ...bet you couldn't average your quoted mph going uphill...best regards.
Holyrood park is a scenic area with a speed limit of 20mph for cars.
Thousands of cyclists, including myself will regularly pedal through there at the same pace or higher than most cars do.
It really comes down to the fact that we have the freedom of choice and that there are so many pedestrians sauntering through that it would be unsafe to use the cycle paths.
If queenie was being driven through at 15mph would you have tooted her also?
Edited to add that my last journey through the lower section of the park was @ 23mph average with a peak of 34.1.
You are absolutely right re freedom of choice..from a personal viewpoint I think I would feel safer among sauntering pedestrians than 1.5 ton cars though. By the way the speed limit is for all users not just cars...watch out for mr plod ...bet you couldn't average your quoted mph going uphill...best regards.
Edited by General Madness on Friday 20th March 19:50
Is it a shared path with pedestrians? the fundamental problem is 14mph is too slow for the road but too fast for a shared path with pedestrians.
I ride a similar path most days and its not ideal for cyclist or pedestrian, they wear headphones and dont hear cyclists approaching (oh the irony!), there are dog walkers with dogs on the lead, some have the dog off the lead, fair enough, its a foot path just as much as its a cycle path. The problem is if its very popular with pedestrians, I'd rather ride on the road which is more convenient and in general, cars are more predictable compared to spaniels!!!
I ride a similar path most days and its not ideal for cyclist or pedestrian, they wear headphones and dont hear cyclists approaching (oh the irony!), there are dog walkers with dogs on the lead, some have the dog off the lead, fair enough, its a foot path just as much as its a cycle path. The problem is if its very popular with pedestrians, I'd rather ride on the road which is more convenient and in general, cars are more predictable compared to spaniels!!!
You are correct, it is a personal choice.
I feel safer in the assumption that drivers will pay more attention than clueless peds.
I may well be wrong but I was also under the assumption that the speed limits applied were the same as public roads, ie not applicable to cyclists.
Obviously that may be incorrect as its the queens park.
would you have tooted the queen?
Also, you are correct. I could not keep the same average going uphill. That's physics for you.
Still quicker than the cars though.
I feel safer in the assumption that drivers will pay more attention than clueless peds.
I may well be wrong but I was also under the assumption that the speed limits applied were the same as public roads, ie not applicable to cyclists.
Obviously that may be incorrect as its the queens park.
would you have tooted the queen?
Also, you are correct. I could not keep the same average going uphill. That's physics for you.
Still quicker than the cars though.
Edited by General Madness on Friday 20th March 20:04
Lots of reasons why here; http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/wcc/facility...
General Madness said:
You are correct, it is a personal choice.
I feel safer in the assumption that drivers will pay more attention than clueless peds.
I may well be wrong but I was also under the assumption that the speed limits applied were the same as public roads, ie not applicable to cyclists.
Obviously that may be incorrect as its the queens park.
would you have tooted the queen?
Me being an ex cyclist & motorcycle rider I'm very aware of intimidating two wheeled users , never pass without giving plenty space and wouldn't contemplate squeezing past as many motorists do...as I did tonight I would give a very polite honk honk as I passed her majesty....I feel safer in the assumption that drivers will pay more attention than clueless peds.
I may well be wrong but I was also under the assumption that the speed limits applied were the same as public roads, ie not applicable to cyclists.
Obviously that may be incorrect as its the queens park.
would you have tooted the queen?
Cycle lanes are optional. Sometimes I use them, sometimes I don't. If they're well designed and implemented they're good things. But more often they're neither and they're not. Trouble is, I suspect, that they're designed by people whose sole mode of transport is the car. You know, the sort who thinks roads are for cars. And not for motorcycles, articulated lorries, rigid lorries, coaches, pedestrians, runners, horses and cattle. Oh, and cyclists.
Too often they seem designed to get cycles out of the way of the car driver, but put them into conflict with those same car drivers turning across the lane. My biggest near-miss so far this year was with a Disco driver who, having cruised up alongside as I was in a cycle lane, turned left without looking or indicating. Had the cycle lane not been there, I'd have taken a primary position in the main lane, keeping pace, slowing and accelerating with the rest of the traffic (up to 20-something, above that I can't keep up and pull to the left anyway) and he'd have still been behind me when he turned. But because I was in a cycle lane, he just didn't register that I was traffic.
I appreciate it that you're asking though. It shows you want to understand. If you really want to understand though, borrow a bike for a week and see how it feels to have people not care if they almost take you out. Or have people who would actually care toot their horns three inches from your ears from within their sound-proofed steel boxes, all because you're not also in a car (because roads are for cars).
By the way, I also drive (a lot), walk and run. I used to ride motorcycles and I once rode a horse, but never again.
Too often they seem designed to get cycles out of the way of the car driver, but put them into conflict with those same car drivers turning across the lane. My biggest near-miss so far this year was with a Disco driver who, having cruised up alongside as I was in a cycle lane, turned left without looking or indicating. Had the cycle lane not been there, I'd have taken a primary position in the main lane, keeping pace, slowing and accelerating with the rest of the traffic (up to 20-something, above that I can't keep up and pull to the left anyway) and he'd have still been behind me when he turned. But because I was in a cycle lane, he just didn't register that I was traffic.
I appreciate it that you're asking though. It shows you want to understand. If you really want to understand though, borrow a bike for a week and see how it feels to have people not care if they almost take you out. Or have people who would actually care toot their horns three inches from your ears from within their sound-proofed steel boxes, all because you're not also in a car (because roads are for cars).
By the way, I also drive (a lot), walk and run. I used to ride motorcycles and I once rode a horse, but never again.
Edited by SixPotBelly on Friday 20th March 20:19
I am glad to hear that you would pass in a considerate manner. Many motorists do.
It's just the a
holes that don't. Be it bike lorry car van, whatever they may be in charge of.
I honestly don't thing you'd have the balls to pass her maj with a toot that can quite clearly be misinterpreted. I think it's safe to say it'd be you getting your collar felt.
Anyway.
I'm sure we will all agree that it's a personal choice which needs no justification.
It's just the a
holes that don't. Be it bike lorry car van, whatever they may be in charge of.I honestly don't thing you'd have the balls to pass her maj with a toot that can quite clearly be misinterpreted. I think it's safe to say it'd be you getting your collar felt.
Anyway.
I'm sure we will all agree that it's a personal choice which needs no justification.
Polome said:
Take your points (1-5) but have to say the two paths I mentioned are well maintained ( I drive alongside 4/5 times a week) your point 6. Whahooooo
Er, sorry, unless you have actually cycled on them, you wouldn't know. It isn't just broken glass, leaves, branches, unpredictable children/pets/drunks, it's stopping every 100m because you have to give way even more than if you're on a proper road.Cycle paths are not compulsory. Cyclists have as much right to use the roads as anyone else. The roads aren't perfect but in 90% of cases they are better than cycle paths.
Most cycle lanes are very poorly implemented, fine for a bimble to the shops on something with chunky tyres but rubbish for anything else (whether travelling quickly on a road bike or slowly with kids). Most of the cycle lanes round here are actually a hindrance to safety because they just leave less space on the road and cause aggravation because of perceived mis-use of the road by cyclists. I suspect in most cases they are just a policy sop to green-ness and also intended as a traffic calming measure to narrow the road width for cars.
In summary, they're sh*t.
In summary, they're sh*t.
It's been well over 5 years since I last cycled on the road and judging from the replies to my original post I am certainly out of touch. Cycle pathways have increased dramatically in my area during that time and until now my opinion was cyclist = cycle path , motorist = road , end of . It seems others informed experience show many factors help make their cycling safe. I can now appreciate how a fit ,athletic and comfidant cyclist would feel safer travelling in car lanes , especially in slow moving city traffic , however the unfit geriatric on a bone shaker would definately be safer on the cycle path. My age is closer to the geriatric than the lycra clad athlete so I would still choose the cycle path in the two areas I first mentioned ( Hollywood park & Seafield Rd next to Halfords) During mad commuting time I would just feel safer on the path. So...... If a plonker in a Porsch or a pensioner in a Polo ( both me) passes with a honk please give me a cheery wave. Stay safe. Regards. I.
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