Heads up - The Armstrong Lie Ch4 9pm
Discussion
An amazing liar ... it was such a whopper that he totally convinced himself and he also probably couldn't see a way back. There were plenty of opportunities for him to come clean but the fear of losing face, his fans and millions in sponsorship so it snowballed. Trying to destroy those who knew the truth showed how much he had to lose but I really felt for those people ... I can't imagine the hurt and frustration they suffered.
I don't really blame him for the doping - everyone was doing it and to run clean was to relegate yourself to obscurity. As someone said in the documentary - whilst he was outside the rules of the sport he was running within the rule of the road.
What IS unforgivable though is the misery he created and the lives he ruined - vindictively - in perpetuating that lie.
He's quite clearly a psychopath.
What IS unforgivable though is the misery he created and the lives he ruined - vindictively - in perpetuating that lie.
He's quite clearly a psychopath.
I wanted to believe for so long that Armstrong was clean. And like many other riders, if he had put his hands up and admitted it, he would probably have been banned for a bit and then come back. But the thing that seems unforgiveable is the way the lie was perpertuated, and the attempts to ruin other people's lives and careers when they were innocent and right all the time.
Mr Gearchange said:
I don't really blame him for the doping - everyone was doing it and to run clean was to relegate yourself to obscurity. As someone said in the documentary - whilst he was outside the rules of the sport he was running within the rule of the road.
What IS unforgivable though is the misery he created and the lives he ruined - vindictively - in perpetuating that lie.
He's quite clearly a psychopath.
Agree. Really quite a nasty individual who used cancer as a smoke screen for his doping. Would have liked to have heard more 'dicussions' between him and P Kimmage. That was quite entertaining. What IS unforgivable though is the misery he created and the lives he ruined - vindictively - in perpetuating that lie.
He's quite clearly a psychopath.
Silver940 said:
Interesting that no-one has claimed the TDF victories that Armstrong was disqualified from..
I think it was because the 2nd and 3rd place riders were also caught doping. It's not a wild guess to say that the top 10 or 20 were at it so you might have ended up awarding the win, retrospectively, to the 57th placed rider. And then stripping him of his title after a few years when he was found with a bag of blood in his hotel room.
Steve
Watched this with the OH last night, it was a pretty good insight into the sport I guess and it would appear most pro's are on something or that's how it was portrayed in the film. A bit one sided at times and you could see how things went to his head with the fame.
UCI were as much to blame as he was though looking at the info provided, the only good thing that came from this was $300M for cancer patients and research.
UCI were as much to blame as he was though looking at the info provided, the only good thing that came from this was $300M for cancer patients and research.
Like other posters, part of my 'forgives' him the doping, he made a decision that to win, in a dirty sport, he had to do it. He's still a cheat, but I get it. I don't like it, but thats what it was.
What I can't forgive is the way in which he destroyed his enemies to protect the lie and the bullet proof protection the money men around him gave him. No one wanted to know the lie when Nike was portraying him like Jesus himself.
That being said, his beating cancer and the money raised was a hell of an achievement, but...that lie.
I really liked the film, also enjoyed the Storyville prog on BBC4 on Sunday night which I didn't see a thread on.
What I can't forgive is the way in which he destroyed his enemies to protect the lie and the bullet proof protection the money men around him gave him. No one wanted to know the lie when Nike was portraying him like Jesus himself.
That being said, his beating cancer and the money raised was a hell of an achievement, but...that lie.
I really liked the film, also enjoyed the Storyville prog on BBC4 on Sunday night which I didn't see a thread on.
Lets face it: everyone was cheating, so the gloves were off with regards to ethics, morals etc. If you're down to that level, and your sole aim is to beat everyone, then don't mince about, crush them. And he did that better than anyone.
EDIT: re. the lies, the attacks. Maybe after the first bout of wins/allegations/denials/lawsuits, he found himself in a similar situation to Macbeth:
“I am in blood
Stepp'd in so far, that, should I wade no more,
Returning were as tedious as go o'er.”
EDIT: re. the lies, the attacks. Maybe after the first bout of wins/allegations/denials/lawsuits, he found himself in a similar situation to Macbeth:
“I am in blood
Stepp'd in so far, that, should I wade no more,
Returning were as tedious as go o'er.”
Edited by Jimbo. on Tuesday 8th July 19:29
I agree with what pretty much everyone has written on here. A very unbiased documentry.
I though when seeing the title it was going to hang Lance out to dry, I also wasn't a fan of him after it came out he was cheating but this came to explain it and almost remove any distain that I held for him.
Yes he cheated, everyone was, yes he lied, again almost everyone was.
How many people here would hold their hands up and admit they cheated when you thought that no-one could pin anything to you? I know I wouldn't.
I though when seeing the title it was going to hang Lance out to dry, I also wasn't a fan of him after it came out he was cheating but this came to explain it and almost remove any distain that I held for him.
Yes he cheated, everyone was, yes he lied, again almost everyone was.
How many people here would hold their hands up and admit they cheated when you thought that no-one could pin anything to you? I know I wouldn't.
Eddh said:
How many people here would hold their hands up and admit they cheated when you thought that no-one could pin anything to you? I know I wouldn't.
I haven't cheated in sports for as long as I can remember. I'm a bit of a big-head when it comes to sport and I don't see the point of spoiling my own fun. But I've never competed for money or fame, cos I'm not good enough.yonex said:
Many doped but Lance was the one who actively ruined people's lives. Utter POS. Have a read of 'The Secret Race', it goes way deeper into exactly what a 'man' he is.
It's a good book, could hardly put it down and it does change your opinion and understand more the dopers of that era. Racing through the Dark tells a very similar story... I suspect many from that era could write a book that reads that way.Secret Race would make a pretty good film I reckon.
BoRED S2upid said:
From my better half : if everyone was on drugs he still won the races he still had to ride every mile and win!
Fair point.
. . or that he had better drugs, better techniques and better doctors. You don't need to be the best driver to win a race, having the best car is a big advantage.Fair point.
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