Road bike - frame material

[nammynake]

I've been riding my Aluminium Specialised Allez for 3 years now and it's been upgraded in that time to 105 group set and Fulcrum Racing 5 wheels. I am looking to get a new bike before the summer and can't decide what to get.

Rather than diving straight in and looking for the best 'spec' I'd like to give some consideration to frame material and geometry. The Allez geometry is OK but I do get uncomfortable on longer rides, but I think that's partly down to having a few months off - it never used to cause too many issues although its never been comfy (if such a thing is possible on a road bike).

The aluminium frame (carbon forks but aluminium steerer) seems pretty harsh and on typical British cheapseal roads is grim! The stem, bars and seat post are all Aluminium.

Has anyone switched from an Aluminium frame to Carbon or Titanium? I've heard that both of these should give a smoother ride and thus less fatigue, although I suspect geometry must play a part too.

So many bikes to choose from. I love the look of Canyon and their value for money is good (although I notice they've increased prices significantly in the last year or two) but I suspect I'd be better getting a decent bike fit and going from there.

P.s. my riding is long/hilly weekend riding only.

[anonymous-user]

In short, any material can be made to ride as the designer intends.

The whole "alu is harsh, steel flexes and carbon is rigid and stiff" generalisation are fundamentally flawed. My carbon frame was designed to reduce road buzz and be comfortable, something like a cannondale evo hi-mod is still carbon but will have totally different riding characteristics.

There is an ideal frame for your requirements out there made from each available material. As an example, I've seen people racing in E123 races finish highly on steel, alu, carbon and ti. It's all relative to the course and terrain for sure but it's not a case of having to choose steel for comfort, carbon for stiffness etc.

I guess my point is you could buy a carbon frame believing carbon to be comfier but ultimately end up with a bike that is stiffer and less comfortable than the Allez if you didn't do your research!

I wanted all day comfort so when I sold my alu boardman, I bought a cat in frame with ultra skinny bowed seat stays that absorb all the road buzz and it's like riding a magic carpet. I toy with the idea of something more racy but I know it's not really conducive to my riding style. The boardman was fine by the way, easily comfortable for 100 mile sportives but I just wanted something shiny!

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 9th March 16:03

[Fastpedeller]

Agree with all the above from Pablo. I'd add that you can't go far wrong with a GOOD steel frame, value for money it still has a lot to offer eg fatigue resistance and the ability to be repaired/changed if required... Want another pair of bottle bosses for instance - no real problem with a steel frame.

[bigdom]

Apologies for thread hijack, anyone ride or have a thought on these?

http://www.shandcycles.com/frames/allroad/stoater-...

[Jimbo.]

IMO now's not the time to go buying disc-equipped road bikes: it seems everyone's still woking out axle standards (already there are 15MM QR front, 142x12mm rear bikes!). QR-equipped, disc-brakes road bikes will be old tech very, very soon. Rim brakes, whilst even older, are numerous enough - and do work well enough - for them to be around for a long while yet!

EDIT: And £2.2 - 2.7K for a 105-equipped steel road bike that's not _that_ special? Sod that! Genesis Equilibrium 20 for £1400 (which I admit may still be a bit spendy for what it is), leaving PLENTY for any fitting, shiny bits (not that it really needs them) and good rubber.


EDIT 2: And run it with big, fat tyres. Makes as much difference as any frame material.

Edited by Jimbo. on Sunday 9th March 19:33

Edited by Jimbo. on Sunday 9th March 19:35

[CRB14]

I went from Ali to full carbon 2 years back. The difference was incredible. Power transfer was immediate and it was so comfortable. Having said that I'm in the midst of refurbing a vintage steel racer. The guy that sprayed my frame reckons it'll be even more comfy that my carbon.

[nammynake]

pablo said:

In short, any material can be made to ride as the designer intends.

The whole "alu is harsh, steel flexes and carbon is rigid and stiff" generalisation are fundamentally flawed. My carbon frame was designed to reduce road buzz and be comfortable, something like a cannondale evo hi-mod is still carbon but will have totally different riding characteristics.

There is an ideal frame for your requirements out there made from each available material. As an example, I've seen people racing in E123 races finish highly on steel, alu, carbon and ti. It's all relative to the course and terrain for sure but it's not a case of having to choose steel for comfort, carbon for stiffness etc.

I guess my point is you could buy a carbon frame believing carbon to be comfier but ultimately end up with a bike that is stiffer and less comfortable than the Allez if you didn't do your research!

I wanted all day comfort so when I sold my alu boardman, I bought a cat in frame with ultra skinny bowed seat stays that absorb all the road buzz and it's like riding a magic carpet. I toy with the idea of something more racy but I know it's not really conducive to my riding style. The boardman was fine by the way, easily comfortable for 100 mile sportives but I just wanted something shiny!

Edited by pablo on Sunday 9th March 16:03

Thanks Pablo. I've been looking at the Cannondale Synapse, Trek Domane and Specialized Roubaix. The Domane looks very interesting.

[TheInternet]

Might be worth considering different tyres / pressures to improve what you already have, they can make a huge impact on ride quality.

[TKF]

nammynake said:

Has anyone switched from an Aluminium frame to Carbon or Titanium? I've heard that both of these should give a smoother ride and thus less fatigue, although I suspect geometry must play a part too.

I have gone from an Allez to a carbon framed Ridley. The Allez has become my winter/turbo bike and today was the first time in about 5mths that the carbon has seen the outside of the garage.

It is smoother but what you'll find is that you use less energy to do the same stuff on carbon. There is no flex in the system and it's (normally) lighter so over a fixed distance the "comfort" comes from being less tired at the same speeds.

Mine also has a racier geometry which gets you more aero, again using less effort.

However it's more important to get the right bike for you than the "right" frame material. A good LBS will be able to measure you up and give a recommendation.

[jamiebae]

CRB14 said:

I went from Ali to full carbon 2 years back. The difference was incredible. Power transfer was immediate and it was so comfortable.

This. I've just made the same swap and the difference in feel is huge.

[rhinochopig]

jamiebae said:

CRB14 said:

I went from Ali to full carbon 2 years back. The difference was incredible. Power transfer was immediate and it was so comfortable.

This. I've just made the same swap and the difference in feel is huge.

Noting what Pablo said - which I agree with - my swap from Alu to Carbon (Boardman to Scott Addict, so a massive jump in price as well) was a huge back to back improvement in comfort. I swapped all the components over so everything was the same apart from the frames and the carbon definitely helped reduce that road buzz that seems to be more prevalent on Alu frames. The frame is definitely stiffer too.

That said, a 'plastic' bike just doesn't have the same emotional attachment for me as something beautifully crafted out of welded / brazed tubes.

[Fastpedeller]

TKF said:

However it's more important to get the right bike for you than the "right" frame material. A good LBS will be able to measure you up and give a recommendation.

Whilst I don't disagree with the above, I think it's unfortunate (as in all things purchased) that the seller may have a conflict of interest. How many shops, if they don't have a bike which they consider will be the best for you, will sell the nearest they have in stock?
Unless you get a made-to-measure? Then you are in the minefield of one person's opinion of what's required - and there are many opinions. Over the years we have had the 109% of inside leg measurement theory, bits touching the top tube theory etc, and none of these sizing methods have a scientific basis that can be proved or disproved. It pretty much comes down to what feel comfortable - and that may be different depending on whether you want to ride as fast as possible for a short distance, or ride a long distance at lesser speed. I've had hand built bikes in the past (still have 1 or 2), and aside from getting the exact fittings I wanted, the frame geometry has made little difference. Unless you go for something really wild, a 72deg or 73deg seat tube angle is probably ideal, because if you use the available adjustment on the saddle that angle can vary by +-1.5%

[TKF]

Like I said, find a good LBS.

One who is a cyclist themselves and one who would value repeat business.

[itsnotarace]

The following items make far more of a difference in perceived rider comfort than frame material

1) Tyre pressure
2) Tyre volume
3) Inner tube material
4) Spoke material
5) Spoke tension / lacing
6) Saddle rail material
7) Seat post diameter

[GaryGlitter]

itsnotarace said:

The following items make far more of a difference in perceived rider comfort than frame material

1) Sunshine
2) Fresh tarmac
3) Tyre pressure
4) Tyre volume
5) Inner tube material
6) Spoke material
7) Spoke tension / lacing
8) Saddle rail material
9) Seat post diameter

EFA

[Birdthom]

I've ridden various different ali and carbon bikes over all sorts of distances in the last two or three years and I have been pretty happy with all of them TBH. Some borrowed, some rented, some on loan and some of my own. Some too small for me, some too big. Even so, the real differences in comfort have been made by simple things like tyres, contact points and my own fitness rather than geometry or frame material.

Your current bike is designed for exactly the sort of riding you do, really.

[bakerstreet]

TheInternet said:

Might be worth considering different tyres / pressures to improve what you already have, they can make a huge impact on ride quality.

This.

I switched to Conti four seasons and the bike was much more comfortable. Sadly, I also punctured a lot more too. Hence, my 4 seasons have now been retired to the garage.

I'v ridden a couple of carbon bikes and IMO they are better at soaking up the road buzz compared to my ali framed bike.

I pick up my first all carbon bike on Saturday and I'm looking forward to getting some decent miles in so I can do a direct comparison

[CRB14]

I'd also add that many people probably over inflate tyres in the belief that it reduces rolling resistance and whatnot but the impact on comfort will probably outweigh any gains.

I weigh 80kg and usually inflate to around 90 front and 95 rear.

[TwistingMyMelon]

Did my route today on my alu/carbon forked bike, instead of my usual steel (modern) roadie.

Wasn't too much difference, as said already wheels, tyre pressure and saddle make a difference

The steel bike is heavier and has more character, but slower on the smooth tarmac sections.TBH the geometry, wheels and brooks saddle make more a difference that the steel does.

Where my steel bike comes into its own, is on slippery &windy steep descents in winter, it feels very surefooted, hit a pot hole and you will be fine. Where as my alu bike is light , twitchy and flimsy in comparison. Once again this is due to a variety of factors and not just the metal .

[Birdthom]

I must tell all those guys I see racing on Caad 10s that they could simply buy a carbon frame and be 3mph faster ;-)