Team Sky rider fails drugs test
Discussion
Anyone seen this?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/25424160
This is Froome saying he's worried it will reflect on him
Sounds like a legitimate reason for positive test.
However. Please , please let this not be serious. Ffs not sky. Not brailsford and wiggo. I'll hang up my cleats if this is a sign of things to come. I have held up sky as the good guys.
Mike
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/25424160
This is Froome saying he's worried it will reflect on him
Sounds like a legitimate reason for positive test.
However. Please , please let this not be serious. Ffs not sky. Not brailsford and wiggo. I'll hang up my cleats if this is a sign of things to come. I have held up sky as the good guys.
Mike
mikees said:
Anyone seen this?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/25424160
This is Froome saying he's worried it will reflect on him
Sounds like a legitimate reason for positive test.
However. Please , please let this not be serious. Ffs not sky. Not brailsford and wiggo. I'll hang up my cleats if this is a sign of things to come. I have held up sky as the good guys.
Mike
As said, pre-Sky. The same time he was recovering from - or at least not long over - the Epstein–Barr virus, which sounds fecking nasty. I can't help but wonder what that and the necessary treatment did to his blood values.http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/25424160
This is Froome saying he's worried it will reflect on him
Sounds like a legitimate reason for positive test.
However. Please , please let this not be serious. Ffs not sky. Not brailsford and wiggo. I'll hang up my cleats if this is a sign of things to come. I have held up sky as the good guys.
Mike
Note that drugs haven't been found in his system: it's the whole biological passport thing showing abnormal values.
I think the two stories are confused here.
JTL has abnormalities on his blood passport which shows a difference between two seasons ( one at Endura the other at Sky)
The Beeb has a headline at the moment about Michael Rogers which reads "Former Team Sky rider Rogers fails drugs test" which implies to me that Sky are involved. They aren't, Michael Rogers was caught with a bloodsample taken at the end of this season which he has spent racing for Tinkoff-Saxo .
Well done BBC, I wonder if their main sponsor was someone else they would make such an effort to trash them with misleading stories?
JTL has abnormalities on his blood passport which shows a difference between two seasons ( one at Endura the other at Sky)
The Beeb has a headline at the moment about Michael Rogers which reads "Former Team Sky rider Rogers fails drugs test" which implies to me that Sky are involved. They aren't, Michael Rogers was caught with a bloodsample taken at the end of this season which he has spent racing for Tinkoff-Saxo .
Well done BBC, I wonder if their main sponsor was someone else they would make such an effort to trash them with misleading stories?
In all seriousness it is part of cycling culture, and has been for years. You don't get to be a top cyclist without some level of "assistance", and the real talent is being able to keep the evidence out of the wrong hands for as long as possible.
When you look back at cycling after the revelations of Armstrong and those around him and on his team, you understand that cycling is not, and never will be, a clean sport. It is tainted to it's core and unfortunately the methods used to cheat are always staying ahead of the methods to prevent it.
Years later when the detection methods, or evidence, improves, you have the fallout.
When you look back at cycling after the revelations of Armstrong and those around him and on his team, you understand that cycling is not, and never will be, a clean sport. It is tainted to it's core and unfortunately the methods used to cheat are always staying ahead of the methods to prevent it.
Years later when the detection methods, or evidence, improves, you have the fallout.
Iklwa said:
In all seriousness it is part of cycling culture, and has been for years. You don't get to be a top cyclist without some level of "assistance", and the real talent is being able to keep the evidence out of the wrong hands for as long as possible.
I think todays top riders are clean, the power Wiggo puts out is about right for the (best in world ) , about 100 watts more than a top club guy in the UK. Now going back to the 90's that power was far more than 100 watts!.FTP top club rider 350 watts, FTP Wiggo 440 etc
jesusbuiltmycar said:
Michale Rogers is a Team mate of Caontador, and has tested positive for Clenbuterol, same thing that his team mate Contador got done for - let me guess it was a dodgy steak... 
He was racing in China the week earlier so I guess that will be the basis of his defencesuperkartracer said:
I think todays top riders are clean, the power Wiggo puts out is about right for the (best in world ) , about 100 watts more than a top club guy in the UK. Now going back to the 90's that power was far more than 100 watts!.
FTP top club rider 350 watts, FTP Wiggo 440 etc
Fair point, but isn't it more about increasing stamina more than power? Being able to push at a good maximum for longer periods than you would be able to clean.FTP top club rider 350 watts, FTP Wiggo 440 etc
It's so murky in cycling that the sport has descended into a very dark place, and given the revelations that always appear years later I would think to believe that cycling has an ounce of "clean" in it would be naïve, or wishful thinking.
Dodgy pork wonton?
cycling news said:
Rogers suspects contaminated food in Clenbuterol positive
The Saxo-Tinkoff team has provisionally suspended Michael Rogers, but will await the B-sample analysis before commenting further on the rider's Clenbuterol positive, which was disclosed by the UCI today.
Rogers tested positive in a sample taken at the Japan Cup on October 20, 2013, after his solo victory in the road race.
The team issued a press release stating that Rogers had made them aware of the result. "The Australian explained to the team management that he never ingested the substance knowingly nor deliberately and fears that the adverse analytical finding origins from a contaminated food source," a press release stated.
Rogers participated in Tour of Beijing the week before the Japan Cup. China has had a history of food-related clenbuterol positives. The country in 2011 outlawed the practice of feeding the drug to pigs to make the meat leaner, but testing in the industry remains scarce. Chinese Olympians were banned from eating beef, pork or mutton during their preparation for the 2012 Summer Olympic Games.
In late November 2011 WADA issued a warning about concerns of contaminated meat and "re-emphasized the need for athletes to exercise extreme caution with regards to eating meat when traveling to competitions in China and Mexico."
Michael Rogers now has the opportunity to request an analysis of his B-sample. According to the team's Anti Doping policy, Michael Rogers is provisionally suspended with immediate effect.
Until further facts are available to the team, Saxo-Tinkoff has no further comments on the matter.
The Saxo-Tinkoff team has provisionally suspended Michael Rogers, but will await the B-sample analysis before commenting further on the rider's Clenbuterol positive, which was disclosed by the UCI today.
Rogers tested positive in a sample taken at the Japan Cup on October 20, 2013, after his solo victory in the road race.
The team issued a press release stating that Rogers had made them aware of the result. "The Australian explained to the team management that he never ingested the substance knowingly nor deliberately and fears that the adverse analytical finding origins from a contaminated food source," a press release stated.
Rogers participated in Tour of Beijing the week before the Japan Cup. China has had a history of food-related clenbuterol positives. The country in 2011 outlawed the practice of feeding the drug to pigs to make the meat leaner, but testing in the industry remains scarce. Chinese Olympians were banned from eating beef, pork or mutton during their preparation for the 2012 Summer Olympic Games.
In late November 2011 WADA issued a warning about concerns of contaminated meat and "re-emphasized the need for athletes to exercise extreme caution with regards to eating meat when traveling to competitions in China and Mexico."
Michael Rogers now has the opportunity to request an analysis of his B-sample. According to the team's Anti Doping policy, Michael Rogers is provisionally suspended with immediate effect.
Until further facts are available to the team, Saxo-Tinkoff has no further comments on the matter.
Iklwa said:
In all seriousness it is part of cycling culture, and has been for years. You don't get to be a top cyclist without some level of "assistance", and the real talent is being able to keep the evidence out of the wrong hands for as long as possible.
When you look back at cycling after the revelations of Armstrong and those around him and on his team, you understand that cycling is not, and never will be, a clean sport. It is tainted to it's core and unfortunately the methods used to cheat are always staying ahead of the methods to prevent it.
Years later when the detection methods, or evidence, improves, you have the fallout.
Sagan is 24 and beating all those ex-dopers without any "assistance", why does he need to cheat? More and more young riders seem to realise that they can be competitive without cheating and we really should be supporting this attitude rather than trot out the tired old cliches that the sport is rotten to the core and there is nothing we can do to change it yadda yadda... I firmly believe that this emerging generation of riders, Bouhanni, Pinot etc enjoy riding clean knowing that their peers are clean and have no temptation to do anything but.When you look back at cycling after the revelations of Armstrong and those around him and on his team, you understand that cycling is not, and never will be, a clean sport. It is tainted to it's core and unfortunately the methods used to cheat are always staying ahead of the methods to prevent it.
Years later when the detection methods, or evidence, improves, you have the fallout.
Sure there will be positive tests in the future because people are idiots but they will be the exception and not the norm but to say that the talent lies in cheating and not getting caught is doing so many good young riders a massive disservice.
I think you are way out of touch to say that the methods used to cheat remain ahead of the processes used to prevent it. Those prevention methods are largely taken from the same medical techniques used to identify medical defects and anomolies in treatments of cancer (oh the irony!), I cant see that anyone is matching that level of medical research spending simply to win a bicycle race.
pablo said:
Sagan is 24 and beating all those ex-dopers without any "assistance", why does he need to cheat? More and more young riders seem to realise that they can be competitive without cheating and we really should be supporting this attitude rather than trot out the tired old cliches that the sport is rotten to the core and there is nothing we can do to change it yadda yadda... I firmly believe that this emerging generation of riders, Bouhanni, Pinot etc enjoy riding clean knowing that their peers are clean and have no temptation to do anything but.
Sure there will be positive tests in the future because people are idiots but they will be the exception and not the norm but to say that the talent lies in cheating and not getting caught is doing so many good young riders a massive disservice.
I think you are way out of touch to say that the methods used to cheat remain ahead of the processes used to prevent it. Those prevention methods are largely taken from the same medical techniques used to identify medical defects and anomolies in treatments of cancer (oh the irony!), I cant see that anyone is matching that level of medical research spending simply to win a bicycle race.
Sure there will be positive tests in the future because people are idiots but they will be the exception and not the norm but to say that the talent lies in cheating and not getting caught is doing so many good young riders a massive disservice.
I think you are way out of touch to say that the methods used to cheat remain ahead of the processes used to prevent it. Those prevention methods are largely taken from the same medical techniques used to identify medical defects and anomolies in treatments of cancer (oh the irony!), I cant see that anyone is matching that level of medical research spending simply to win a bicycle race.
Jens Voigt on doping said:
I don’t know. Maybe it was just really crazy times back then and no one followed any rules. No one was going to be caught and everyone thought everyone was doing the same. It was maybe a really bad moment and period. When you come in there as a young guy and you have ten teammates telling you that if you want to ever win anything you have to do this and this. What do you do? You’re maybe twenty years old and ten guys tell you that… it’s just a bad moment but to come back to the present, I think we’ve reached a place or time when things are a lot better.
Quintana second in the Tour, Froome is younger, the world champion too. They were probably twelve years old when this all happened. They were playing on their Gameboy, playing Pokémon. What can they know about it and why should they suffer and face questions? It’s unfair towards them. I’m an older guy, I’ve seen those periods so I understand why you guys ask me as I was an eye witness and I was there. I can understand why you ask and that’s why I try and not to complain too much because I understand your point of view. But for the young kids… Peter Sagan was eight 15 years ago. He could probably hardly read back then.
Full interviewQuintana second in the Tour, Froome is younger, the world champion too. They were probably twelve years old when this all happened. They were playing on their Gameboy, playing Pokémon. What can they know about it and why should they suffer and face questions? It’s unfair towards them. I’m an older guy, I’ve seen those periods so I understand why you guys ask me as I was an eye witness and I was there. I can understand why you ask and that’s why I try and not to complain too much because I understand your point of view. But for the young kids… Peter Sagan was eight 15 years ago. He could probably hardly read back then.
pablo said:
Sagan is 24 and beating all those ex-dopers without any "assistance", why does he need to cheat? More and more young riders seem to realise that they can be competitive without cheating and we really should be supporting this attitude rather than trot out the tired old cliches that the sport is rotten to the core and there is nothing we can do to change it yadda yadda... I firmly believe that this emerging generation of riders, Bouhanni, Pinot etc enjoy riding clean knowing that their peers are clean and have no temptation to do anything but.
Sure there will be positive tests in the future because people are idiots but they will be the exception and not the norm but to say that the talent lies in cheating and not getting caught is doing so many good young riders a massive disservice.
I think you are way out of touch to say that the methods used to cheat remain ahead of the processes used to prevent it. Those prevention methods are largely taken from the same medical techniques used to identify medical defects and anomolies in treatments of cancer (oh the irony!), I cant see that anyone is matching that level of medical research spending simply to win a bicycle race.
So you are confident enough to assume Sagan isn't using anything? If you have been watching road racing over the years there are probably a lot of riders who weren't even under suspicion that have now "come clean". The issue hasn't magically disappeared because the bigger cheats have been convicted, and it is such a major part of cycling that it will always be in the background, especially when you have a reasonably dominant rider like Sagan.Sure there will be positive tests in the future because people are idiots but they will be the exception and not the norm but to say that the talent lies in cheating and not getting caught is doing so many good young riders a massive disservice.
I think you are way out of touch to say that the methods used to cheat remain ahead of the processes used to prevent it. Those prevention methods are largely taken from the same medical techniques used to identify medical defects and anomolies in treatments of cancer (oh the irony!), I cant see that anyone is matching that level of medical research spending simply to win a bicycle race.
I will retain a scepticism for anyone who can be consistently competitive, because in cycling that usually means there is something more than natural talent at work.
Iklwa said:
pablo said:
Sagan is 24 and beating all those ex-dopers without any "assistance", why does he need to cheat? More and more young riders seem to realise that they can be competitive without cheating and we really should be supporting this attitude rather than trot out the tired old cliches that the sport is rotten to the core and there is nothing we can do to change it yadda yadda... I firmly believe that this emerging generation of riders, Bouhanni, Pinot etc enjoy riding clean knowing that their peers are clean and have no temptation to do anything but.
Sure there will be positive tests in the future because people are idiots but they will be the exception and not the norm but to say that the talent lies in cheating and not getting caught is doing so many good young riders a massive disservice.
I think you are way out of touch to say that the methods used to cheat remain ahead of the processes used to prevent it. Those prevention methods are largely taken from the same medical techniques used to identify medical defects and anomolies in treatments of cancer (oh the irony!), I cant see that anyone is matching that level of medical research spending simply to win a bicycle race.
So you are confident enough to assume Sagan isn't using anything? If you have been watching road racing over the years there are probably a lot of riders who weren't even under suspicion that have now "come clean". The issue hasn't magically disappeared because the bigger cheats have been convicted, and it is such a major part of cycling that it will always be in the background, especially when you have a reasonably dominant rider like Sagan.Sure there will be positive tests in the future because people are idiots but they will be the exception and not the norm but to say that the talent lies in cheating and not getting caught is doing so many good young riders a massive disservice.
I think you are way out of touch to say that the methods used to cheat remain ahead of the processes used to prevent it. Those prevention methods are largely taken from the same medical techniques used to identify medical defects and anomolies in treatments of cancer (oh the irony!), I cant see that anyone is matching that level of medical research spending simply to win a bicycle race.
I will retain a scepticism for anyone who can be consistently competitive, because in cycling that usually means there is something more than natural talent at work.
I'm absolutely confident that Sagan isnt using anything but as we have been discussing since the Armstrong/USADA case, I cant prove a negative so the doubters normally win these arguments. Sagan has been competitive in major races since he was 18, he has improved ever since and his enthusiasm for racing to me, suggests he wants to stay clean. The issue as you say is disappearing because there is no need to resort to doping if your competitors are not doping, if you arent winning you change your training or your coaching but at least you are losing to a better man and not a better doper. That is why the sport is changing, albeit slowly.
You last line is truly sad, you will never enjoy any sport if you maintain this train of thought. Do you watch athletics and dismiss the success of Gemili and Bolt just because Christie and Gatlin took drugs? That is after all, a sport with as bad a reputation as cycling for drugs abuse.
pablo said:
Sagan is 24 and beating all those ex-dopers without any "assistance", why does he need to cheat? More and more young riders seem to realise that they can be competitive without cheating and we really should be supporting this attitude rather than trot out the tired old cliches that the sport is rotten to the core and there is nothing we can do to change it yadda yadda... I firmly believe that this emerging generation of riders, Bouhanni, Pinot etc enjoy riding clean knowing that their peers are clean and have no temptation to do anything but.
Sure there will be positive tests in the future because people are idiots but they will be the exception and not the norm but to say that the talent lies in cheating and not getting caught is doing so many good young riders a massive disservice.
I think you are way out of touch to say that the methods used to cheat remain ahead of the processes used to prevent it. Those prevention methods are largely taken from the same medical techniques used to identify medical defects and anomolies in treatments of cancer (oh the irony!), I cant see that anyone is matching that level of medical research spending simply to win a bicycle race.
What a complete load of utter rubbish. You know NOTHING about what goes on behind closed doors.Sure there will be positive tests in the future because people are idiots but they will be the exception and not the norm but to say that the talent lies in cheating and not getting caught is doing so many good young riders a massive disservice.
I think you are way out of touch to say that the methods used to cheat remain ahead of the processes used to prevent it. Those prevention methods are largely taken from the same medical techniques used to identify medical defects and anomolies in treatments of cancer (oh the irony!), I cant see that anyone is matching that level of medical research spending simply to win a bicycle race.
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